ord
Posts: 1356
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:44 am

Delta will unveil the 'Spirit of Delta' 767 in an all-new livery this Thursday, sometime between 2:30 - 4P.
 
exusair
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 6:50 am

Anybody had a sneak peek at the plane yet?????
 
DeltaBoy777
Posts: 394
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:09 am

ORD-- Are You an employee of Delta??

Because I was on the DeltaNet Employee site and was just about to mention this topic!!!
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
serge
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:34 am

Are they only repainting one 767? Which kind?

thanks,
Serge
 
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OA412
Crew
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 7:46 am

Are they only repainting one 767? Which kind?

The "Spirit of Delta" is Ship 102 and is a 767-200. This was the first 767 to enter the DL fleet and was purchased through employee contributions. As a result it was named the "Spirit of Delta."
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Delta737
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 8:26 am

...and Ron Allen subsequently sold it and then leased it from the company he sold it to...

 
jhooper
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:04 am

Ron Allen sold the Spirit of Delta? What kind of pride is that??? Anyway, that plane really feels like an old clunker (from a PAX standpoint) compared to the newer 767s.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
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lindy field
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:07 am

Sorry to ask what might be a previously asked question: Any word on whether or not the Spirit of Delta aircraft will have any special markings in the new livery?
 
Guest

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:40 am

It's gonna be renamed "Spirit of Furloughs" because the paychecks of the 10-15% they laid off after 9/11 are helping to make the lease payments. Big grin
 
N839MH
Posts: 298
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:00 pm

Lowfareair....where did you get your numbers that Delta laid off 10-15%?

Only a few hundred pilots have been laid off from Delta. I don't believe any
other employee group had employees laid off. Delta offered early retirement along with vol. leaves of absent. There were so many applicants for the vol. leaves, some employees never left. And it wasn't until Delta offered the early retirement packages and vol. leaves that other airlines changed there attitudes and offered some packages similar. Except WN.
Solodude!
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:15 pm

N839MH -- we've got almost 800 furloughs with 30 more going out on a regular basis monthly. I think that's the second highest in the industry, right under USAir who is barely hanging on. We didn't lose an aircraft and had the 'best' balance sheet going, but we're also doing the 2nd most furloughs industry wide.

Lots of employees were laid off, most, except pilots, were recalled.

As far as I know, SWA had NO layoffs (as far as I know) and is still actively bringing on more pilots. not a lot, but even a few is a good sign.

Doug
 
DeltaSFO
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Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:32 pm

...and Ron Allen subsequently sold it and then leased it from the company he sold it to...

Hey Doug.... where'd you hear that? Delta still owns Ship 102 outright. Check out the aircraft info page on DeltaNet, according to that Ship 102 is owned.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
2cn
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:09 pm

Lots of employees were laid off, most, except pilots, were recalled.

Technically, only pilots were laid off. The rest of the employee groups took one year, three ? year and five year leaves, which at the end Delta must bring them back either by the end of their leave, or before... but since these people chose this, and are guranteed to be brought back at the end, I at least do not consider it being laid off.


I also don't believe Ron Allen would have sold the plane off, then leased it back (especialy after everyone else checked it out)
 
wilcharl
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:56 pm

well landings.com shows DL as the owner

N-number : N102DA
Aircraft Serial Number : 22214
Aircraft Manufacturer : BOEING
Model : 767-232
Engine Manufacturer : GE
Model : CF6-80 SERIES
Aircraft Year : 1982
Owner Name : DELTA AIR LINES INC
Owner Address : HARTSFIELD ATLANTA INTL AIRPORT
ATLANTA, GA, 30320
Registration Date : 21-Mar-1983
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental
Approved Operations : Exhibition
 
ord
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:38 pm

No, I am not an employee of Delta. But I know someone who is.

My first flight was in a Delta 747 (my family had the upstairs lounge reseved for ourselves) and I have loved Delta ever since.
 
wn700driver
Posts: 1475
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 10:43 pm

Please pardon my stupid question, but is this deltanet open to the public?
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Delta15
Posts: 561
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 11:07 pm

No, only to employees.
 
jhooper
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Wed Jun 26, 2002 11:51 pm

Wilcharl,

According to your landings.com info, N102DA has an "experimental" type certificate. What's the deal with this?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:08 am

The rest of the employee groups took one year, three ? year and five year leaves, which at the end Delta must bring them back either by the end of their leave, or before... but since these people chose this, and are guranteed to be brought back at the end, I at least do not consider it being laid off.

No, they are NOT guaranteed to be brought back at the end. That is the major sticking point. Delta must offer them any open positions at the time of expiry of the leave, but if there are no open positions within a fixed time frame (6 months I believe) then they are terminated involuntarily. Technically, Delta had zero layoffs of non-pilots. DALPA could also have avoided layoffs if they had accepted Dave Bushey's proposal of September 25 (which he explained in detail in one of his last memos on November 1 before stepping down), but Will Buergey decided to go the other way.

As far as ship 102 goes, I don't see any sale-leaseback transactions in the ownership history, but that is not to say that it did not occur. In the case of operating leases only does the actual title change hands, so its quite possible that an alternatively structured financing transaction took place.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:28 am

WilCharl-

The spirit of Delta is leased.
 
jim
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 8:12 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:11 am

So, going back to the first question...Has anyone seen or gotten a picture yet? Or is Ray and Co. doing a better job of secrecy this time  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2445
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:46 am

Ship 102 is not leased at this time. All of the -200s are company owned.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:22 am

I just saw it land in ATL and then taxi over to the TOC. Nothing special at all--same livery with the addition of "The Spirit Of Delta" in large fancy script just above the windows in the middle of the fuselage. A little disappointing in my opinion.
 
DeltaBoy777
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:22 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:34 am

To cease all of this nonsense about leasing, any Delta employee can tell you this plane was not leased. The employees in 1982 funded the plane, that is why it is special to Delta. My Mom helped pay for that plane!!!

--ORD, Thanks for the reply back, it is a good airline!!
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
flydeltasjets
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:14 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:44 am

B747,

You have posted your allegation on a number of different boards. It is both simplistic and incomplete.

Bushy made an offer to DALPA to attempt to avoid some furloughes using concessions. There is so much wrong with that I don't even know where to start, but I'll try.

#1. We were the only group who were asked to give concessions in exchange for mgt trying to avoid layoffs.

#2. We were the only group not offered voluntary layoffs.

#3. We were the only group who is not recieving benefits from mgt while we are off the payroll.

#4. We are the only unionized large workforce (coincidence?)

#5. Mgt. originally announced 1700 pilot furloughes. They asked for concessions based on that number. Let's assume that we gave them in exchange 900 jobs. That would leave 800 furloughs. Exactly the amount that mgt has furloughed. That's the whole problem with concessions. You may be giving up your hard-won contractual gains to save jobs which weren't even threatened in the first place.

#6. Our contract prohibits furloughs except in the event a circumstance beyond the company's control PREVENTS the company from flying airplanes. Nothing is preventing them from doing so. It is only for economic reasons that they have furloughed (granted, economic reasons brought on by a devastating event). We believe that these furloughs are illegal, despite what the arbitrator ruled.

#7. Mgt is buying 100's of rjs and transferring our flying to lower paid pilots. It is completely within "the company's control" to put those rjs at mainline and not furlough pilots. Will they do this? No. Why not? Economic reasons.

#8. Unlike many pilots lately, Delta pilots are proud of their accomplishments, experience, and qualifications, and feel we deserve to be well-compensated for them. Pilot salaries have fallen in real dollars in the last 20 years, and we think that trend should stop. We should be well-paid, and are too proud and committed to our profession to give away what we are worth.

#9. As a furloughed Delta pilot, I heartily endorse my union leadership's decision not to try to "buy" my job back by mortaging our futures. This has always been a wonderful job, I want it to still be that way when I return.

#10. Do you honestly not see a difference between the way the pilot group has been treated since 9/11 and the way every other (non-union) group has been treated?
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:23 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:59 am

B747-437B

Wow, I don't know where to start but you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

But ditto to what FlyDeltaJets said.

Flyboy777-
Purchased, yes, but then leased back. That's why the "Spirit of Delta" is referred to as "The Spirit of Delta Past".

 
DeltaBoy777
Posts: 394
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RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:04 am

I have never heard of Spirit of Delta Past. You will have to show me that one!!  Big grin
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
N102DA
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri May 17, 2002 8:49 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:06 am

Ship 102 is owned by Delta. The aircraft was the first 767-200 to have the CF6-80A engines (launch customer United's aircraft are JT9D powered) and participated in certification flight testing for Boeing. This particular engine model made its debut on the 767-200. Perhaps this explains the "Experimental" type certificate?

Pity I don't know this one.

Regards,

N102DA
 
strickerje
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:35 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 12:28 pm

According to Delta's own website, all of Delta's 767-200's are owned, as seen here:
http://www.delta.com/inside/investors/corp_info/fleet/index.jsp

According to William Harms' excellent "Commercial Jet Aircraft Census" website, all of Delta's 767-200's are owned, as seen here:
http://www.bird.ch/bharms/asr_sh00.htm

All the information you need is out there, just look for it.

-Jeffrey
 
777-200
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:20 pm

Will this be open to the public?

Greg J.
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2445
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:38 pm

It's an employee only event. Free Cake and Ice Cream too, Oh Boy!
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1159
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:42 am

I noticed that database is rarely updated, N103DA also is lsited as expermental. we had a 737 that was used in flt testing for hush kits that was listed as experimental. I think the only time they update the certificate database is when ownership changes take place. Another vote taht that aircraft is still owned by DL and not a lease back. Now, when a change of ownership does take place i have notice that within a few months the database reflects the chnage
 
User avatar
lindy field
Posts: 2946
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:16 am

Just saw a photo of ship 102 in the new livery. I like it. Looks very elegant.
 
sxmarbury33
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:41 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:35 am

I was just wondering. Why did the employees buy a 762 anyway. Is it the employees personal plane for non rev excursions or something thats the only thing i could think of. If i was working for delta I dont see why I would chip in any amount of my paycheck to buy a 767 which the company already has a good number of.
 
777-200
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:52 am

"If i was working for delta I dont see why I would chip in any amount of my paycheck to buy a 767 which the company already has a good number of"



Sxmarbury33, It was Delta's First 767

Greg J.
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
sxmarbury33
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:41 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:07 am

Oh it was the first? I still dont quite understand why the employees bought it i mean if they were buying a 767 to turn into a mobile childrens hospital that would make sense, but buying a large aircraft like that for the company that could possibly fire them down the road seems a little odd.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:08 am

Here's a little background on Ship 102 for those who are curious as to why she's so special. I posted this on FlyerTalk a few months ago.

In 1982, as Delta Air Lines was experiencing a period of financial difficulty, Delta employees, led by a group of flight attendants, demonstrated an incredible show of support for the company and actually paid for Delta's second Boeing 767 through payroll deductions.
The aircraft was christened "The Spirit of Delta" because it symbolized the loyalty Delta employees felt to the company and the personal sacrifice they made to give the company a token of appreciation and a show of support during a difficult time.

When the aircraft was delivered on 25 October 1982, it was adorned with a huge red ribbon and bow around the fuselage. It was a gift from the employees of the company.

In addition, Ship 102 was repainted in a commemorative livery prior to the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta.

Ship 102 was also the first Boeing 767 to touch down on European soil.

A lot has changed in 20 years, but The Spirit of Delta is still flying. I haven't met any Delta employee who was around back then (and even a lot of us that weren't) who can't help but smile when Ship 102 visits their station. Unfortunately, we don't get the 767-200 here in PDX.

Here are a couple of pictures from airliners.net:

Ship 102 brand new:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



Ship 102 in service livery:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tommy Simms



Ship 102 in 1996 Olympic Commemorative colors:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



And Ship 102 in her latest colors, absolutely beautiful:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © PeachAir

It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
fxra
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 1999 1:03 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:11 am

As i recall, the employees all paid for the Spirit of Delta as a thankyou for the company not laying anyone off during economic troubles at the time. Its kind of interesting to see how the management style has changed there in the past 20 years. Somewhere in the boxes packed up is my fathers commemorative coin and piece of ribbon from the original introduction of the aircraft (and i rememebr flying on it once when i was a kid).

As a side note, i think i was expecting something more grandiose for the paint job. I recently had been to the Delta Training Center and saw the posters for the unvailing. Now for personal opinion... Delta should have used the olympic livery from 96 as a basis for an updated paint scheme, the 767 and MD-11 looked great when they were painted in that scheme.

Later
Visualize Whirled Peas
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:39 am

I wish they would have done the widget outlined in gold like it used to be. Overall, not too bad looking, but they could have done more. They should have made it a retro scheme, like make it look like the early jet liveries of Delta, or heck, even the old livery they used on the DC-3s.
 
2cn
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:02 am

B747-437B- Ummm.. you are wrong. As I remember from the papers my dad brought home (he works for Delta. has for 36 years now) that part of the whole deal was- at the end of the leave, the employees were to be brought back.. not brought back if their is a need. My dad has been seeing people who took the 6 months coming back- and there really isnt a need for all those who are coming back, to come back. You may be right, but from my memory (and my familys) you are not.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:11 pm

How long did it take Delta to paint the aircraft in the new colors?

I could have sworn it was Ship 102 I flew on June 11, 2002 from ATL to DTW and it was still in the original colors of Delta. But could they have repainted it in 3 weeks?

The question is, was 102 still in old colors on June 11, 2002?
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:22 pm

Mgt is buying 100's of rjs and transferring our flying to lower paid pilots. It is completely within "the company's control" to put those rjs at mainline and not furlough pilots. Will they do this? No. Why not? Economic reasons.

Is Delta Mgt violating your contract by buying 100s of RJs and transferring the work off mainline? If so, I hope the pilots win the battle. Otherwise, their move makes good sense, from an economic standpoint. So even if it is within the company's control to put the RJs at mainline (flown by more costly pilots), then why in the world would the company do this?


It's an employee only event. Free Cake and Ice Cream too, Oh Boy!

Does Delta ever allow the public to participate in anything like this? Geez, even their museum is "locked up inside the secure fortress".
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
N839MH
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:54 pm

FlyDeltasjets....

Wasn't it the pilots, the only group at Delta that called in sick for the most of the holiday season a couple years ago? If I remember correctly, along with thousands of other inconveinced passengers, it was the pilots.

Maybe its payback time for all of those sickouts....
Solodude!
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Fri Jun 28, 2002 2:33 pm

N839MH,

The pilots simply elected not to fly overtime (which is completely within their rights to do). The airline relies on this overtime flying to keep up with their normal timetable, so flights were cancelled.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5287
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:48 am

The DL pilots wanted to be the best paid and they are...however there was a price to pay for those high salaries. The DL pilots effectively gave up mainline growth to get that pay. Sorry guys....you get what you pay for. In this industry you will never have industry leading growth and industry leading pay....the two just don't equate.

As for the Spiriti of Delta...it looks quite nice.
 
L1011dal
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 9:41 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Sat Jun 29, 2002 2:50 pm

It was nice to see the aircraft recognition at the employee event. I posted pictures from the event on my website at http://www.L1011.homestead.com if you're interested. Click on New Spirit of Delta link. I'm glad the "Spirit of Delta" lives on!
 
planefreak
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2000 7:09 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Sat Jun 29, 2002 3:00 pm

Yes! The Spirit of Delta" is alive and well in my neck of the woods.

Great job guys and gals

planefreak
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:34 am

Flydeltasjets, Delta737, et al.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but I've been on the road this past week. As you may or may not know, I have very little love for Delta management's labor practices as DeltaSFO will attest to. One of my bigger projects this year has actually involved an attempt to unionize a workgroup at Delta, so please don't think that I'm taking a pro-management stand here. Nothing could be further from the truth.

However, I've seen the infamous September 25 proposal. It was pretty straightforward from what I read. Yes, Delta wanted to reduce jobs and made a pretty convincing argument as to why there was a need to do so. No argument there. However, the mechanism for these reductions was the sticking point. Bushy's proposal was to essentially negotiate a side letter to the contract, similar to the one that was signed a few months later, which would permit the pilot group to sign up for voluntary leaves similar to those that the non-union workforce was being offered, but with full retention of seniority and benefits. There are plenty of senior guys out there who would have jumped on the chance to take some time off had the union agreed to offer this to their members. However, the union either refused or stalled too long (I'm not clear which one it was), and hence when the time came to offer the packages to the employee groups (remember the big Leo Mullin CNN press conference?), they were forced to go the other way and seek voluntary leaves only from the non-union employees. ALPA essentially cornered Delta into a position where they were forced to use involuntary furloughs to attain their workforce reduction targets among the pilot group.

I can argue the minutae of this issue for hours, but I'll summarize my thoughts very briefly below. Its pretty obvious that there had to be workforce reductions post-September 11. The responsible thing for ALPA to do would have been to allow their own members to determine the mechanism for these reductions (as they DID do later with the 55-hr blank bid side letter), rather than simply refuse ANY concessions outright on the basis of the no-furloughs clause in the contract. Delta has had a history of manipulating labor relations, so the chances of winning that in arbitration, no matter how open-and-shut the case appeared (and for the record, IMHO the arbitrator's decision was a load of horseshit), were marginal. ALPA MEC tried to have their cake and eat it too (and a bunch of that was internal politics between the Andy Deane and Chuck Giambusso factions), hence screwing their junior members out of jobs they could ill afford to lose. Yes, Delta manipulated the situation very shrewdly and screwed their own employees in the process, despite pathetic offers to the furloughed pilots of "guaranteed positions in ACS" (replacing non-union ACS employees on voluntary leaves - how convenient!). However, DALPA did have a means to avoid this in the early stages, which they didn't take for whatever reason, and needs to share part of the blame.

RJ flying is another story for another day. It will become the next big sticking point among airline labor negotiations, much like B-scales were 20 years ago.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:13 am

Here's all the pics of the new livery so far:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gregg Stansbery
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gregg Stansbery



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gregg Stansbery
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © PeachAir



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Seth Heckard



Josh
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:23 am

RE: New 'Spirit Of Delta' To Be Unveiled Thursday

Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:57 am

Sept 25th proposal?

Huh?

Andy Dean/Chuck Giambusso factions?

Maybe I'm the weirdo here but I've been around since 1998 and have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

B-scales 20 years ago? A little more recent than that...

In all honesty, that's a heartfelt posting, but I'm kind of clueless about 99% what you're talking about.

Doug Taylor

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Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos