Squigee
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 3:21 pm

ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:13 am

An ABERDEEN-bound passenger jet was involved in a near miss with a Swiss plane after a mistake by a trainee air traffic controller, its been claimed.

It's reported there was only 100ft difference in vertical separation between the two planes - the minimum is 1,000ft.

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=84106&command=displayContent&sourceNode=83936&contentPK=2000598

Seems like a lot of ATC incidents involving students in the past few days...
Someday, we'll look back at this, laugh nervously, and then change the subject.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:24 am


That is just the story in this thread making it's way to Scotland.

David
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:26 am

I was in an aircraft which was vertically separated from another by just 50ft once.

Luckily, the other aircraft was 3,000 miles away...
 
Lindy
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 4:37 am

"Both aircraft were 50-seat Embrair 145 jets"

Yeap, both Embrairs hehehehehe
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
Squigee
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:47 am

Sorry, David:

This article came up as an Alert on CNN, so I assumed it was breaking.

I remember a few months back (might be years, now) two Air Canada jets had to do some fancy footwork to avoid a collision over Saskatchewan.
Someday, we'll look back at this, laugh nervously, and then change the subject.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:45 am

A Trainee ATC nearly got a Fokker 50 of KLM shot down by the army yesterday. I forgot how but it was something to do with training on Salisbury plain, but I don't know how that has to do with anything (maybe it was the airforce???).

Apparently whoever saw the aircraft on the radar and stopped everything.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:54 am

EGGD, I think there's an army firing range on Salisbury Plain

Squigee, I'm surpised it made it as an alert on CNN. Anyone, one correction to make, which I forgot to do on my thread, is that it must have been the LX 374 from BSL and not ZRH, registration HB-JAW. The BA flight will have been the BA 4171 registration unknown!

David (almost 1 year on a.net)
 
Hamfist
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:40 am

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:13 am

I'm sure you could argue that I am a bit biased, but I think it's funny how mistakes by ATC get so much more attention. Especially if the word "trainee" is in the report. Wish they would report every time a good, experienced controller bails out a student pilot!!

Case in point, I'll never forget the day I watched one of our controllers notice that an F-15 student was almost over the threshold with NO GEAR DOWN. The controllers quick reaction saved Uncle Sam a $40 million write-off as the student lit his burners with few seconds to spare.

"Funny how free beer shows up at the office when something like that happens!"
 
mandala499
Posts: 6459
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:53 pm

At CGK, trainee ATC gets the red-eye shift doing cargo flight approaches and departures. Once.... at 4am... *This is not an official transcript, but by memory*

FX: "Jakarta Approach, Fedex 9516, at 3000 heading 220, we're declaring emergency we need a left vector back north over the sea, we can't turn right onto the localizer"

JA: "FedEx9516, understood, proceed to airfield"
FX: "Errr, we can't make the right turn to the runway. We need to go out to sea and recycle the computers"
JA: "Understood, proceed to airfield"
FX: "Listen God Damn it! You understand what I'm sayin' ? I can't turn the damn thing to the right, can we make a left turn back to the north or not ? otherwise I'll end up in your neighbour's house!"
JA: "Understood Fedex9516, you are cleared to land any runway"
FX: (a different voice) "*&&# *&#@head! All stations, FedEx9516, 10DME from 25L, making LEFT TURN NORTH in emergency"
JA: "FedEx9516, Please proceed to the airfield, there is no traff..." Xmission was cut and...
JA Supervisor: "FedEx 9516, this is the duty supervisor, you are cleared to go anywhere up to 30 miles into the sea, remain under 10,000."
FX: "Alelluya, Thank you sir, we've just about fixed it, still on 350 heading at 3000"

about 45 seconds later...
FX: "Jakarta Approach, problem is solved and we're back to normal, errr, we can take a left turn to 195 and intercept 25L from there."
JA Sup: "FedEx9516, Understood that as back to normal"
FX: "Yes Sir!"
JA Sup: "FedEx9516, descend to 1500 heading 220, that will make it quicker, I'm really sorry about the trainee. Contact tower when established."

Early hour arrivals into CGK = Danger on the hands of trainee ATCs on some nights. You can hear some weird occurences like "Singapore 9925, errrr, we can't make the approach, you'll put us errrr... about 5,000 feet over the outer market, can we do a tight 360 to go down further?"

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
737heavy
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:05 pm

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:25 pm

I read in the paper that these were 3 miles apart when this happened. Something about vertical and horizontal separation.
 
swake
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:47 am

RE: ATC Trainee Nearly Crashed Two Jets In Aberdeen

Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:49 pm

LOL Mandala
really enjoyed that one  Laugh out loud