Sabena 690
Topic Author
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SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:21 pm

Hello all,

x SN Brussels Airlines is planning to add three new B737-700's and two new B737-800's to their fleet. With those Next Generation Boeings, they will be able to fly to medium haul destinations like Athens, Lisbon,...

x SN Brussels Airlines declared yesterday on TV that they are not interested in a coöperation with Sobelair. SLR, which will also receive new B737-800's, also wants to start new medium haul destinations like Athens, Tel Aviv,...

I hope that this will not end in a commercial war between these two...

Regards,
Frederic
 
BrusselsSouth
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:00 pm

Doesn't SNBA fly A319/A320s anymore ?
 
SN-A330
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:08 pm


Brusselssouth,

Maybe I'm getting you wrong but as far as I know SNBA never flew A319/A320s!  Confused  Sad

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
BrusselsSouth
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:09 pm

I know this, I meant those from Sabena

Brusselssouth
 
SN-A330
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:14 pm


Brusselssouth,

SNBA only flies BAe 146 / RJ85 / RJ 100

Regards, SN-A330
I would rather be flying...
 
BrusselsSouth
Posts: 565
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:02 pm

Thanks for the information, SN-A330.
With this in mind, it makes sense for SNBA to buy 737-NGs.

Regards
Brusselssouth
 
KENNY
Posts: 112
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:20 pm

Great!! When do you think they'll be included in the fleet? When the contract with VEX is ended?

Greetz,
Kenny
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:22 pm

Actually quite a stupid decision when you consider that there are still many former SN-A32X pilots out there, hoping for a job. But hey - when did they ever make a good decision?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
pothiabs
Posts: 114
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:04 am

The decision to operate a certain aircraft should be based on the operating cost and target market, and not on the availability of type-rated pilots.

A training cost (one-time expense) is nothing compared to a possible higher operating cost for many years to come.

Maybe DAT did make a good homework after all when comparing the 737 with 320 family......But that's where it ends.

DAT can't even fill up an AVro 85, how would they possibly want to fill up a 737-700 or 800 ? Oh, sorry, I forgot : the Government is buying the empty seats until election day...

My impression about their statement is that after the announcement from VEX and SLR that they will expand with 737-NGs, DAT is only trying to play a little media-game here : intimidating the competition and at maybe giving Boeing the excuse to ask higher prices for their 737s to VEX and SLR. (higher demand means higher price).

 
blink182
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:45 am

I am a bit shocked that they went 737 over A320. I thought they would have wanted to keep fleet commonality.

Regarding Sobelair- that is a shame. I think had SLR and SNBA agreed to a partnership, this would have solidified their #1 spot over VG.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
manni
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:29 am

This comes as a surprise to me. Since a few days a couple A32S are parked in front of the DAT hangar, it looked that they were getting them ready for SNBA. I'll have to see these 737NG's flying first before I believe this. IMO they should have stayed with Airbus as their partner Birdie already operates the A330, and wasn't cocpit commonality very cost saving. How can it be cheaper to lease/buy new 737 aircarftthan to take over SN's Airbusses. Not only the pilots are qualified for those airbusses biut also largest share of new groundequipment was bought to handle Airbusses.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
KENNY
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:43 am

* At first, they should look at operating costs and buying or leasing price of the aircraft.

* After that, they can look at qualiflied personnel for them, although we have much pilots for Airbusses in Belgium, I think we should also note that there are Boeing pilots in Belgium, Sabena had flewn the B737 until its bankruptcy. (I don't know for sure if they may fly the B737NG).

* About ground equipment they shouldn't worry (I can be wrong), since ground handling isn't in their hands anymore.

* I must also say that Manni has a bit of right, they're partner (which were rumours of taking the African flights in own hands if they make money within the next year), that they should buy Airbusses to have the same fleet.

* Pothiabs, I don't really agree with what you say as loadfactor, the last thing I heard was that they had a loadfactor of 60%, that's rather good I think, but I don't think that's the point why the need the planes: if they want to restart destinations like Athens, they should buy new planes, since the AVRO's don't make it to there.

Greetz,
Kenny
 
KENNY
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:51 am

* I really think that the breaking of a codeshare with Sobelair isn't a good idea. There are so much airlines in Belgium now (for such a small country), I think they should work together a bit more then now.

Greetz,
Kenny
 
KENNY
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 3:53 am

And yet another thing:
http://80.65.128.101/press/press.php?language=nl&id=28

The new uniforms of SN Brussels, I know its a small picture  Smile

Greetz,
Kenny
 
Sabena 690
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:01 am

x An Airbus A32F is much more expensive to operate. Why? The weight of the aircraft!! When you land with an A320, you have to pay more landing fees than when you land with a B737

x Sabena (Technics) has always had a Boeing reputation. They changed to Airbus because they had to change from the Swissair management, although the Boeing 737 was the best and cheapest decision

x Now, after the dissapearance of the Boeing 737 from the Belgian market (just VEX uses them), Boeing wants again a strong feet in the Belgian market. I don't have details about the price that SNBA will pay for those NG Boeings, but I am sure that the price will be very low!!

x In my eyes, they have to sign a code share agreement with SLR, but the problem is that the SNBA management promissed to the Avro pilots that they could fly the medium haul fleet, if there should come a medium haul fleet. So if SNBA should say now that not the SNBA pilots may do the medium haul destinations, but SLR, this would end in a war under the pilots. The SNBA pilots were promissed that they should fly the B737. So they are furious now that SLR takes their work away...

x And this is a rumour I heard: at the moment, there are no B737 pilots and A32F captains available anymore on the Belgian market. So, whether they take the A32F or B737, they have to retrain their pilots. And like already mentioned, they are going to take Avro-BAe pilots, so pilots from their own, so they have to be retrained anyway. And this costs a lot of money!!

I hope they will use their brains.

If I make some mistakes on what I wrote above, please correct me.

@Brusselssouth:

SNBA never flew with the A32F. SN Brussels Airlines = DAT Airlines, the regional partner of Sabena. Sabena was the owner of the shares of DAT, but DAT never had something to do with the Airbus aircrafts of Sabena. At the time of the bankruptcy of Sabena (the 7th of November), DAT only had some Avro RJ100's (97 seats), Avro RJ85's (82 seats) and some British Aerospace 146-200 aircrafts (84 seats).

Regards,
Frederic
 
SN-A330
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:01 am


Hi Kenny,

There is another topic about the uniforms. You can find it here : http://airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/861755/

Thanks to Luchtzak for taking the great pictures!

Regards, SN-A330

I would rather be flying...
 
KENNY
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 4:51 pm

@ SN-A330

Thx for informing, didn't notice that topic :$

Greetz,
Kenny
 
gerardo
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:22 pm

I don't think, that the weight difference between the A319/A320 and the B737/B738 would make the A320 "much more expensive to operate". The slightly lower fuel consumption of the A32s would for example be an advantage of the A319/A320 solution. Capital costs for 2nd hand A32s should also be lower.

Just a few thoughts

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Sabena 690
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:55 pm

Thanks for your thoughts Gerardo.

But an additional advantage of the B737, is probably the price that SNBA payed for them.

Boeing wants to come back on the Belgian market, and wants to pay a price for that.

Are there insiders here that have financial reports about the price that SNBA payed?

Regards,
Frederic

 
gerardo
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:05 pm

This would mean, that Boeing sells 5 B737 at lower prices prices than 2nd hand A320??


Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 7:15 pm

This would mean, that Boeing sells 5 B737 at lower prices prices than 2nd hand A320??

I don't know, the only thing I know is that Boeing is trying to come back to the Belgian market.

I hope that some insiders can give some more financial details.

Regards,
Frederic


 
gerardo
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:11 pm

First: Is the belgian market that important to start a fierce battle? I doubt a little bit, given the fleet size of the Belgian airlines.

Second: Isn't Boeing already on the Belgian market? -> VEX, SLR

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 8:20 pm

Wait wait, we should wait such an order is confirmed and officialy signed !!!

Of course, such news is not a big surprise, I already mentioned it a few weeks ago.

Just wait & see !!

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:26 pm

Don't forget that we had an enourmous Boeing reputation in Belgium already for years. Look at Sabena (before the A320-series), SN Technics, SLR,...

SN was one of the first European carriers to buy the B707,...

Regards,
Frederic
 
A330
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 10:57 pm

Pothiabs, or shall i say Guv or Ceilidh??,

You are talking nonsense here, and you know it.

As for pilot availability, I can confirm that most ex. SN pilots are now back in the air, only a couple of 320 rated co´s remain.

by the way, does anyone know a nice bar in Yerevan?
Shiek!
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:01 pm

Ceillidh = Pothiabs? This explains a lot!

/Frederic
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:42 am

@ A330:

What are the latests VG load factors ???

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:50 am

x Sorry to say so, but I read a lot of nonsense here. Wait and see what SN Brussels is going to do. I agree with Flying Belgian. Nothing has been decided yet. And what CEO Davis tells is not always what the stakeholders say... So please wait and see. Also about SLR/SN Brussels Airlines.

x Why SN Brussels must go for fleet commonality? The operator of the Airbus 330 is Birdy, that's another company with own pilots. So for SN Brussels there is no need for fleet com.

x Sabena 690: when i follow your knowledge nobody will fly the Airbus 32F because you say that the B 737 is cheaper... Please. So Iberia, Alitalia, Air France, BA, LH, ... are all stupid ???

x Sabena 690: everybody who makes planes wants to sell planes. So if SN Brussels is going to buy/lease aircraft: Boeing and Airbus will make the best possible proposal. Airbus wants to be on the Belgian market as Boeings wants to be: all the rest is bullshit.



 
Sabena 690
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:01 am

x Why SN Brussels must go for fleet commonality? The operator of the Airbus 330 is Birdy, that's another company with own pilots. So for SN Brussels there is no need for fleet com.

Do you believe the rumour that SNBA will take over Birdy within 10 months if the contract ends? One of the conditions should be that Birdy has to be profitable...

when i follow your knowledge nobody will fly the Airbus 32F because you say that the B 737 is cheaper... Please. So Iberia, Alitalia, Air France, BA, LH, ... are all stupid ???

No, they certainly are not stupid. What my arguments are that flying a B737 is cheaper for SNBA than flying the A320-series:

- Sabena always had a Boeing reputation. Because they decided to choose Airbus (for fleet harmonisation with Swisair), they broke with their Boeing reputation. Although Boeing was cheaper (this is my conclusion if I read pg. 94-101 in 'De crash van Sabena'), they chose for Airbus.

- Now, after Sabena and Sabena's Airbus-period, Boeing wants to play an important role again in the Belgian aviation (this was said by an insider in a previous topic here, so I think this is correct).

- Someone said to me that Boeing wants to do everything in order to sell again aircrafts to the Belgian flag carrier. And yes, Airbus will do the same, but now we don't have SR influence in the decision. So maybe Boeing is more likely?

- I read in the tech/ops forum that an Airbus A320 is more expensive to operate than a B737.

- I read too in the tech/ops forum that a B737 is less heavy than an A320, so it is cheaper to land at an airport with a B737 than with an A320

If I put all those pieces together in a puzzle, I think that I have enought arguments to say that a B737 is cheaper to operate for SNBA,than an A32F

I would like to discuss these statements to come to a general conclusion.
So to the discussors, thanks for all your replies, they are much appreciated  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards,
Frederic

 
gerardo
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:18 am

SN690: "- I read in the tech/ops forum that an Airbus A320 is more expensive to operate than a B737. "

So, all those operators of some thousand A32s should rather read the tech/ops forum, because they are operating expensive aircraft, and perhaps they don't even realize .... PLLLLLEEEEEEAAASE!

I'd suggest you use REAL facts and not a mix of rumours and "I have been told by an insider"-like pseudofacts.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
pressclub
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 6:51 am

Frederic, be very careful in jumping to conclusions. You don't have the real facts in your position to judge what is the right decision for SN Brussels. Neither have I. So, how can you say that Boeing is cheaper for SN BRu than Airbus????? Hundreds and hundreds of factos you have to take into consideration. Weight is just one of them.

And it's not because you have a Boeing reputation that you have to stay with Boeing. Please. SN Brussels has no Boeing reputation. It has no Airbus reputation. It's a new company. By the way it looks like SN Brussels will lease aircraft and not buy: so the lease rate and operating cost will determine the decision.

That Boeing wants to do everything is just pilot's talk, you can't say this info is based on real facts.
 
Sabena 690
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:48 pm

Thanks for the answers Gerardo and Pressclub.

It is in this way of discussing that we can come to interesting conclusions  Smile

Regards,
Frederic

 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:25 pm

Here is some more news I just read in the FET:

- SNBA expects to be break even in the 4th quarter

- The number of passengers which pay high tarifs is increasing

- In June, the load factor increased to more than 50%

- The average revenues/passenger is increasing

- Davies said that he does not want to become a copy of Sabena. He said that it is highly unlikely that they are going to fly to destinations in America and South-East-Asia. He wants to concentrate him on Africa and Europe

Is there still no more news on who is going to be the Asian and American partner?

He said that he does not want to fly to East-South Asia and to America. Maybe he is looking for a partner that wants to fly for SNBA to these destinations with a code share?

Nice to see that SNBA is doing good. This is in contradiction with an earlier topic about SN Brussels Airlines. I hope that they will be break-even. This would be really nice, and a stimulation for the staff of SNBA. They all fought for their company. And it seems that they are winning!!

Regards,
Frederic
 
Established02
Posts: 528
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:35 pm

Good morning,

More competition ahead for SNBA.

http://www.brusselsairport.be/timetables/

During the summer season (and beyond?) ALX will operate a second weekly flight (on thursday) between FIH and BRU.

SN has 5 weekly flights a week to FIH.

UY now also operates a one weekly FIH-DLA-CDG-BRU.

Can someone confirm if 6V (LAC) is still in the air? They are still mentioned on the BIAC timetables with one weekly flight. However I thought it was "game over" for LAC, due to financial difficulties.

So this would give us 4 competing carriers between FIH and BRU!  Big thumbs up or  Nuts ?

Regards,

Established02

 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:37 pm

This morning there was a flight of Cameroon Airlines as far as I remember.

And Hewa Bora with a 2nd flight to BRU, do you think guys that this flight will last long?

If you can fly for almost the same price with an A330 of Birdy, instead of an ageing L1011...

Thanks for the info Established02!

Regards,
Frederic
 
pressclub
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:43 pm

x So Davies says 'nothing new': all this info was already put in the topic about SN Brussels some weeks ago. I am satisfied that my colleagues didn't get scoops during my holiday  Smile Smile

x LAC is no longer flying to BRU. The 767 from AirAtlanta Icelandic is no longer in operation for LAC

x UY flies officially weekly to BRU but we don't see the aircraft every week.

 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sat Jun 29, 2002 6:39 pm

Anyone know how the NCL-BRU route is doing now, after a poor start?
To get back to Sabena levels on this route and other feeder routes, SNBA really do need to expand their long haul network. Will this happen anytime soon?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
myself
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:04 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:55 am

If DAT claims to get load factors above 60% and that yields increase, how come then I saw the Turin-Brussels flight last week leave on a weekday morning with only 2 passengers ?

Pressclub, maybe Davis has a perfect explanation for this too, but I'm quite curious to hear it........


Greets
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:59 am

That flight with only 2 passengers might only have been a one-off and the rest of the flights full  Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
myself
Posts: 206
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 5:14 am

Possible,
At this occasion it was fairly easy to do the headcount, but the charge of the lugage carts all over Europe tell the same story : low loads.

It's sad, but doesn't come as a surprise. They just don't invest in PR and commercial presence in the outstations.

I have now been at at least 10 airports that are served by DAT, but in not a single terminal their logo could be found, or a genuine "SN Brussels" ticket counter, let alone some publicity for the company. Starting up without spending money on PR......?


 
pressclub
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 5:45 am

Myself,

I agree 100 pct with you. I have the same experience when i am abroad. For exemple in Barcelona, the counter was last month still a 'DAT' counter ... And also on the commercial side (representation) they still have a lot to do abroad.

SN Brussels is not really known in Europe. Also in Brussels things can/must enhance. I had to go back 4 times for a timetable before they could give me one...






 
Com3205
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:11 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 6:24 am

Hi Myself
How are you,long time no see.
For SNBA the real loadfactor is around 44%(or was). It's just like you say no PR (but new uniforms?) The spirit is like the one we had at SN those last days. I've got the impression they keep the patient alive untill the elections are over.Anyway if they lease 737's that could be good news for you,although after what they did with our seniority list. Often I see a/c leave with just a few pax so even if you got good loadfactors on the ones I don't see I think 50% is rather optimistic.Yields increase??????
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 8:53 pm

@ Com3205:

Just like many ex-Sabéniens, I can feel a bit of jealousy and even understandable frustration in your statements.
*I just want to let you know that the loadfactor of SNBA on African flights is well above expectations even on the FIH route where there is a fierce competition. Many flights depart 80-90 % full even in C-class.
*About the yields ??? Yes SNBA is targeting another kind of yield: SN used to fill its flights to ATH, AGP, IST, & CMN and we know where it has led.
SNBA is clearly looking the C-class pax.
* Many people here are pointing out to the bad target :
-- > My question is more how can VG Airlines survive with so poor loadfactors and 4 leasings contracts of ILFC under its arms ???

With my best regards,


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
Guest

RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:34 pm

I am most definitely NOT Porthiabs!!

Some reality here:

1) There's well over 1,000 airliners parked at the moment and lessees are falling over themselves to do deals to get in some cashflow - any cash flow! SNBA obviously is not in a position to buy new aircraft (at the loadfactors mentioned above, it's still well below breakeven and therefore losing money). The major lessors (GECAS, ILFC etc) have both A320s and B737NGs available, so they couldn't care either way.

2) The C class market no longer exists, in the present economic environment. If that's what SNBA is looking for, they won't find it - as other carriers like BA, VS etc have found. Who's making money and flying full? The low cost guys. Who's losing it? The full service airlines. Simple equation there!

3) If SNBA are doing their yield calculations based on getting substantial C class loads, then they will be underpricing their Y tickets and therefore compounding their losses.

4) Marketing is everything - if you can't educate your market that you are there and ready, willing and able to fly them then you might as well close down now rather than later.

 
Spitfire
Posts: 697
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 10:13 pm

Well Neil I agree 120% with you!! Like Com3205 said: lots of things will happen next year after the vote...
Rgds
Spitfire
Sabena ... Never to be forgotten (12 years already , what a shame !! )
 
Com3205
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Sun Jun 30, 2002 11:58 pm

Dear flying Belgian
First of all there is nothing to be jealous of, I've got a nice flying job in a company I believe that still will be on the market when a lot of others will be gone for some time. I know the ex-dat quite well because I flew there and I trained a lot of people there and I had a GREAT time flying at dat.I've got lots of friends in SNBA and I hope they will make it. BUT what you read in the press,on this forum and the rumors is not making aviation experts like some people clearly think they are.I did not want to hurt feelings but I just wanted to give some figures to "Myself" whom I know is an expert. And for the discussion about 737 against A320 know that it's not always the logic that wins but a lot of hidden agenda's make it a very complicated game. You really have to be an insider to understand.(I'm not anymore) Figures are not always easy to understand look at SN and it's obviously not on here you can find an explanation. But it's fun to read all the comments and to stay in touch with some of the people. I hope Dirk will publish some comments one of these days.
See you.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Mon Jul 01, 2002 12:35 am

To Com3205 and Myself,

You both seem to be SNBA insiders. What you say is rather pessimistic than optimistic.

I would appreciate it if you both should make a post which contains facts, and how you see the future for SNBA.

Your help is much appreciated!!

Best regards,
Frederic
 
myself
Posts: 206
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:12 am

Frederic,

OK, working on it.
 
Sabena 690
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines News

Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:15 am

Thanks for the time you put in it Myself!

It is much appreciated!

Regards,
Frederic

 
A330
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 12:31 am

For Flying Belgian...

Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:03 pm

Flying Belgian,

JFK flights, seems to progress now to about 80 pax. per flight
BOS around 60 at the moment
No idea about the Yerevan and LAX ones, but I have heard that initial loads are very good...
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