TR
Topic Author
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How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:44 pm

Look at the holes in the rudder...

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Photo © Egon Johansen

 
khi747
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:59 pm

Look more like stains then holes to me...but i do agree that planes should be in tip top condition as many peoples lives depend on that...infact im flying myself today from Boston to Zurich on SWISS.
 
'Longreach'
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fl

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:06 pm

Take a look at the rudder trim tab! They are no stains!
 
TR
Topic Author
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:07 pm

Nope! That is definately not stains. Here´s the rest of the plane:

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Photo © Colin Abbott


Should not be allowed into the air in my opponion.
 
N766UA
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:44 pm

It looks like one of those rusted up old salty ocean freighters... with wings.
This Website Censors Me
 
Skystar
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:44 pm

They are certainly holes.
I find it odd that stains can match the clouds in the background perfectly  Smile

I think I'd find another aircraft if possible.

Cheers,

Justin
 
shaun3000
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:46 pm

So long as it does not affect the planes ability to fly safely. Also, it appears that the holes are only on the trim tabs which do not add much to the aerodynamics of the rudder. And it's only two small holes, not a giant chunk.
 
brons2
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:52 pm

Put a fresh coat of paint and a new trim tab on there, and you'd never know it was so old. Looks can be decieving.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
philb
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:53 pm

Can't see any holes in the rudder. The fabric at the bottom of the trim tab is missing. How do you know that this didn't happen on the flight immediately before this shot was taken - or that the aircraft hasn't been in ground storage and will be repaired before flight?

There is no reason to believe, on the evidence you present, that the aircraft would fly again before repair.

Even if it did, the results would hardly be catastrophic although if it were allowed to fly on a continuing basis there would be good reason to question the standards of the operator.

Many large proppellor aircraft were constructed with fabric covered moving surfaces and are certificated to fly safely with a percentage missing. Think back to WW 2 and the bombers that safely returned home with far bigger holes than this.
 
LY744
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:09 pm

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter to anyone! I'm surprised you're freaking out over this, I guess you haven't seen that many An-12's, have you?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
TR
Topic Author
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:30 pm

LY744: I am not sure weather to laugh or cry - perhaps you could be of some assistance?
 
caribb
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:45 pm

LY744 - I'd be freaking out over it - if these holes are acceptable then what else is?.. regardless of whether it's truly a safety hazard. Even if it happened on the previous flight the aircraft should have been fixed before continuing on, if only for the psychological security of the passengers.. This tells me the airline either has no money to maintain it's aircraft, or doesn't care enough to do so, or doesn't care what it's passengers think about flying on old and potentially unsafe aircraft... ie: hardly anything that builds confidence in the airline. Maybe in their market this is considered normal, I don't know.. but if it's Europe or North America I'd hate to think that major carriers could get away with something like this.
 
Guest

RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:55 pm

Even if it happened on the previous flight the aircraft should have been fixed before continuing on, if only for the psychological security of the passengers.

Huh? The An-12 is a tactical freighter aircraft. That means NO passengers.

The An-12, as PhilB mentioned is designed to allow for this.
 
caribb
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:00 pm

Aviatsiya.ru - I was referring to a passenger jet in the same condition. Don't get me wrong, I[m not knocking the quality of the aircraft type or manufacturer.. just any plane in this condition by any airline. Every plane, it properly maintained can be safe, secure and useful for it's owner be it a freight or passenger airline.
 
broke
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:19 pm

The only ones on a freighter are usually the crew. It isn't like there will be people on this airplane!! Gee whiz.  Yeah sure With the tab running the full trailing edge of the rudder, I'd be interested in knowing if it is a control tab. Meaning that it moves and then the rudder moves. MMMMMmmmm
 
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RayChuang
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 9:43 pm

If you want to see lots of examples of barely flyable old Antonov freighters, go to Sharjah, where you see An-12's (and even sometimes An-8's!) that are registered in flags of convenience of some African countries.

However, given the marginal safety record of these second-hand planes, no wonder why many African countries have banned them. If I were the Russians I would enter into agreements with African countries and sell them Il-114's and the IRAN-140 to Africa right now just to get rid of these old rustbuckets.
 
heavymetal
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:51 pm

What a collection of apologists on this thread!

This certified P*o*S belongs in a junkyard. If holes in the rudder are acceptable to those getting into this crate and flying it, what can't you see that's acceptable too?

And those pointing out it's cargo and doesn't carry passengers .....only the crew is taking their lives into their own hands. The crew.....and every poor soul who lives under the flight path.

"Fairness" in commerce to help the CIS countries to a more prosperous future should not include endangering lives.
 
Guest

RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Thu Jul 04, 2002 12:52 am

If you want to see lots of examples of barely flyable old Antonov freighters, go to Sharjah, where you see An-12's (and even sometimes An-8's!) that are registered in flags of convenience of some African countries.

The An-8s are actually not even allowed to fly in Russia. Their authorities have deemed it to be an unsafe aircraft. And guess who is flying them out of Sharjah? Although the airline name might change, you can be guaranteed it is Victor Butthead.  Wink/being sarcastic

What a collection of apologists on this thread!

Apologists?

Or should that be "what a collection of people who actually have some notion of what they are talking about"??  Laugh out loud

This certified P*o*S belongs in a junkyard. If holes in the rudder are acceptable to those getting into this crate and flying it, what can't you see that's acceptable too?

There are no holes in the rudder. Read PhilB's post again.

And those pointing out it's cargo and doesn't carry passengers .....only the crew is taking their lives into their own hands. The crew.....and every poor soul who lives under the flight path.

Go and read up on the history of the An-12, and you will see that a bit of fabric missing isn't going to endanger the aircraft. It isn't uncommon for you to have seen An-12s which have used masking tape to fix such problems....this was a necessity due to the aircraft being operated to hundreds of different airfields around the Soviet Union where there were no maintenance bases or crews.

Think outside the box of all-metal Boeing and Airbus flying computers, and realise that whilst it might not look good to some that the Soviets knew what they were doing when they designed these aircraft.

This reminds me of the old story of NASA, when realising that a normal ink pen would not work in space due to zero gravity, spending millions of dollars and thousands of man hours developing a "space-age" pen which would be able to write in free-flowing ink in space conditions. The Soviets also facing the same problem saved themselves millions of dollars by using a pencil.

Whilst the above "story" is an urban legend, the actual idea behind it rings true.
 
Trident
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RE: How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?

Thu Jul 04, 2002 2:07 am

Whatever about the pencil story, NASA did develop a special electric razor for the Apollo crews. It sucked up the bristles to prevent them floating around the cabin in zero-G. Most astronauts preferred wet shaves!