ATL2CDG
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:13 am

ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:43 am

Effective Sept. 1, three ASA ATR-72 aircraft will be redeployed to the Cincinnati hub to improve aircraft utilization and profitability across the Delta Connection network. The changes will more appropriately match aircraft capacity with demand in 12 short-haul Atlanta and Cincinnati markets, adding seats on popular Cincinnati routes and reducing over-capacity on certain routes from Atlanta.
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:11 am

That's very interesting. The CVG hub was hailed as being the first all-jet hub in the Delta Connection network. However, judging by the explanation, it does appear that this will help the airline run more efficiently. Any idea which markets will see the ATR-72 from CVG? Also, will they park at Comair's Concourse C in CVG, or will they use Concourse A along with Atlantic Coast Jet? In addition, is this a temporary fix until Comair receives their CRJ-700's?
 
tt737fo
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:36 am

they ought to be re-allocated to the boneyard.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sun Jul 07, 2002 4:27 am

This is an interesting move but I don't think it will last long. I think they are just waiting for the CRJ700's which Comair is scheduled to receive. Last I heard because of the strike at Bombardier a few months ago that some of Comair's first CRJ700's have been delayed a few months.
 
B747-437B
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sun Jul 07, 2002 4:40 am

Just another example of Delta Connection's "Divide and rule" policy.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
srbmod
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sun Jul 07, 2002 7:34 am

That is a good question about what routes will see ATR service form CVG. My guess would be perhaps AVL, MYR, TRI and CHA since these are cities that already see ATR service via ASA anyway, and plus you could route them through ATL to swap a/c around as well.
 
meister808
Posts: 924
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sun Jul 07, 2002 7:47 am

Are these a/cs going to operate as Comair or ASA flights??

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
AirT85
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sun Jul 07, 2002 11:16 am

They will still be ASA flights. I talked to a COMAIR flight attendant on a flight from CVG-PIT and she said they get their first -700 in October. I dont know if thats the delivery date or date of first revenue flight but that was the date she gave me. So they may only be there one to three months until Comair gets enough -700s online. Hopefully they will go to PIT. its always full from CVG.
Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
ATL2CDG
Topic Author
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Sun Jul 07, 2002 11:17 am

These flights will be operated as ASA flights, with both crews and flight number designation as such. Cities to be served from CVG are within a 280 nm radius of CVG and will likely include TOL, EVV, TRI, AVL and CHM among others per the company memo.

The ATRs are going to be around for a while. They are cash cows and DCI has no intention of dropping such a profitable portion of its fleet.
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat.
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Mon Jul 08, 2002 2:58 am

According to the Yahoo Delta board the ATR's will fly out of CVG to SDF,TRI,TOL,CAK,GRR, EVV and CHA. SDF still gets some mainline flights out of CVG and GRR just recently saw one mainline flight return....I wonder if DL will replace those mainline flights with the ATR's?? DL has a habit of doing that.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:38 pm

I find this very interesting, but I understand where they are coming from in trying to test the market I guess. In TOL we've constantly heard about a possibility of mainline returning here, but it's been just rumors. Even though I think and wish mainline would come back, I still like to see upgrades and this would interesting because TOL would have every DCI airplane type except the Emb 120. Anyone got an idea when the schedules come out? Also, FlyPNS, what's the link to the yahoo board?? I couldn't find it =o( Thanks

Ry
 
ouboy79
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Mon Jul 08, 2002 11:34 pm

http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7081626&tid=dal&sid=7081626&mid=49529

There is the link to Yahoo. I think TOL can do without the EM2s again. Unless they want to attempt them on the DFW run -- umm then again.  Smile
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:30 am

DL bringing in the ATR's to TOL from CVG would represent a capacity increase (since they would be replacing 50 seat RJ's or maybe 32 seat FRJ's) meaning that DL is growing in TOL. DL is pretty stingy about where mainline planes go and I think the MD88 is a little too big for TOL. However, if DL eventually gets a 100 seat plane...that might work in a market like TOL.

If the service is supposed to start in September, the schedules should come out pretty soon.
 
ouboy79
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:27 pm

>> DL is pretty stingy about where mainline planes go and I think the MD88 is a little too big for TOL.<<

I would welcome you to really look over the market. Today, for instance. All 3 flights to ATL will be going out full...2 CR7s and 1 CRJ. To CVG...all but 2 flights are going out full. The last flight tonight is going out very light, and the other one (at 4PM) will be going out with about 10 seats left. Have to look at it this way. CAK and now GRR are supporting one daily MD-88 a day. CAK, for example, has very light loads on the other flights but seems to fill the mainline flight up. One or two MD-88s in TOL would fit and work out perfectly.
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:04 am

Let's say DL replaces one of the CRJ700's with an MD88 which increases the number of seats from 70 to 142. Even if the CRJ700 has a 100% LF everyday, on the MD88 that would translate to 49.2% LF on the MD88. Of course, we can assume DL picks up some new pax....lets say DL gets another 40 people per day on that flight which is a big assumption. DL now has a 77.5% LF which is still below DL's breakeven loadfactor which is in the low 80's.

This doesn't even begin to address yield issues. Sure DL is filling up planes but what do the yields look like??? If the yields are only mediocre (and right now yields are pretty poor systemwide), then DL bringing in extra capacity could dilute yields further and make the situation worse.

Don't get me wrong, I think TOL could support mainline but the MD88 is just a little too big in today's yield environment. If anything, the next move DL makes might be to add another RJ frequency since TOL only gets 3 flights a day.
 
RJNUT
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:55 am

If your Break even LF is in low 80's , you are in big trouble!! The thing to understand, is that when you hit load factors that high, you have turned away a hell of alot of passengers, because many of your flights have gone out completely full..there is a point when your LF is too high; your capacity needs to be increased or your fares need to be increased..Simple economics!
 
flyinryan99
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:11 am

"If anything, the next move DL makes might be to add another RJ frequency since TOL only gets 3 flights a day"

That's what I'd like to see myself. GRR moved to 4 flights a day to ATL, but of course they don't have the -700s. I'd like to see 12:55p flight go to a -700 and maybe move the 600p departure back to around 7:00p and add a -200 at 4:30p. For DL the TOL - ATL O/D makes the money on the route (from corp accts) and the rest is just butter.

It's gonna be interesting how Comair deploys their -700s when they come online. I'm interested in the routes they are going to fly. I am figuring TOL would be one of the first stations to get the -700s because the 6:45a, 10:10a, and 4:05p departures are constantly oversold. Does anyone know if they are planning on running longer routes with them or if they are going to be mainly for upgrading current routes?

Thanks,

Ry
 
ouboy79
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RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:12 am

As has been stated...a lot of passengers are being turned away when load factors are that high. The last numbers I have are posted here: http://www.toledoexpress.com/news/paxnumbers.htm and those are for April. Ryan should have May and June up tomorrow. From what I was told May was much better than April and June did well too. Looking at the numbers you notice just that a lot of people started to get turned away.

For April...ACA had 82.8% inbound and 57.6% outbound LF, ASA 85.0% and 88.5%, and Comair had 69.5% and 68.7%. This was the first month for the 2 new ACA flights to run TOL-CVG, the month before ASA was in the mid 90s and Comair was in the mid 70s. Recently, however we are talking all of ASA flights going out oversold day and several of the CVG bound flights go out full. The route is making money...and with the lack of ATA competition on the ATL run, yeilds are in tact (for that matter, ATA is doing their fares intelligently to where they aren't gouging fares to where money is being lost by anyone).
 
jderden777
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 9:56 am

RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:25 am

oh boy...more ATRs into TRI... Insane

wish we would see the CRJ-700s up here...i am getting really tired of the ATRs buzzing around...what would be REALLY nice is if we would see mainline Delta again...but i guess that won't happen anytime soon...

jonathan d.
"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
 
miller22
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: ASA To Reallocate 3 ATRs To CVG

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:12 am

plans are to stage the ATR's out of Concourse C. So much for "The Jet Hub". The CRJ-700's have problems with short stage lengths (well they're not as well suited as the ATR) and DCI is hell-bent on seeing every DCI carrier in every hub...only a matter of time before Comair is in SLC.