cmchardyfl
Posts: 173
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2002 8:29 pm

Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:27 am

Hi Guys,

Why do airlines have Orient or Asia subsidaries in order to fly into Taiwan?? I may just be answering my own question as I figure its so the 'same' airline can fly into both mainland China and Taiwan. So if this is true, why is an airline not allowed to fly into Taiwan and mainland China?

Another question. What airlines have, or have had Orient or Asia subsideries? A few spring to mind:

Northwest
Air France
British Airways
Swissair?

I dont believe I have ever seen airlines such as United, Alitalia, Lufthansa, FedEx and others with Asia or Orient subsideries. Why not? Have they never flown into Taiwan?

Thank you in advance for any answers and I appologise in advance if this topic has been discussed in depth before. I had a good look around but could not see anything on this subject in months.

Cheers

Chris
 
boeingnut
Posts: 390
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:46 am

You are right, it was so that they could fly into both Taiwan (Republic of China) and the Mainland (People's Republic of China)

The Mainland gov't didn't want any foreign carrier to recognize the gov't on Taiwan as legitimate by flying there, and for a while refused to give landing rights to any carrier that flew to both places, thus the ____ Asia airlines.

After a while, they relented, and now carriers fly to both without the Asia titles.

Northwest was Northwest Orient for all their flights up until the 80's, not just for their flights to Taiwan, at least I think.

Excuse me, but what does God need with a starship?
 
Guest

RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:50 am

Why do airlines have Orient or Asia subsidaries in order to fly into Taiwan??

Politics. 'Officially' (according to Beijing), an airline can't fly to both China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC).

...I figure its so the 'same' airline can fly into both mainland China and Taiwan

You got it. Though oftentimes the 'Asia' division is a legally seperate entity, owned by the parent airline (eg British Asia Airways is/was a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways, PLC)

I dont believe I have ever seen [other] airlines...with Asia or Orient subsideries. Why not?

Some airlines that fly to both the PRC and the ROC use only one livery. They simply ignore China's rhetoric.


3-bird

BTW: Northwest Orient was not a subsidiary of Northwest. It's NWA's old name.
 
paulc
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:10 pm

KLM Asia also existed for the same reason
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
Darius
Posts: 139
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 8:47 pm

Why is the crown taken of KLM's logo on the KLM asia aircraft?
And has KLM asia ceased to exist? I thought more and more 744's of KLM got the Asia scheme?

Cheers
 
CPH-R
Posts: 6058
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:21 pm

Lufthansa used (I don't know if they still do) its charter subsidary Condor to fly int Taiwan.
 
airsicknessbag
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Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:46 pm

Another word on the LH/Condor thing: the plane was simply painted in Condor livery, it had nothing to do with Condor. The interior continued to be 100% LH, the planed continued to be owned by LH.
That plane also flew other routes, because the TPE flight was only twice or thrice weekly. Nowadays, LH codeshares on TG into the R.O.C., so the a/c in question was repainted into the standard LH livery.

Daniel Smile
 
KLM747
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:52 pm

There's also Japan Asia Airways, subsidiary of Japan Airlines.


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superdawg
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:57 pm

There was also Swissair Asia at one point.
 
Britair
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:05 am

Here are some of the "-Asia" subsidaries. Including Mandarin Airlines which was originally China Airlines' own version of an "-Asia" subsidary, set up to fly to Australia and Canada.

British Asia is no more, with the end of Taipei services in March.

Australia Asia is no more either, in a clever bit of fine print, services from Australia to Taipei are actually operated by Qantas Ltd, not Qantas Airways Ltd, so "officially" the flights are leased from the mainline airline to the subsidary......a true paper airline. However when Australian Airlines takes over the route in October, Qantas Ltd will no longer exist.


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RayChuang
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:56 am

What's interesting is that Japan Asia Airways proved to be a surprisingly profitable operation for JL.

The reason is simple: there are many ex-pat Taiwanese living in Japan, many of whom arrived in Japan to escape the Nationalist Chinese in 1949. Today, there is considerable traffic between Japan and Taiwan; many Japanese visit Taiwan on cheap all-inclusive vacations.

(A little off-topic but interesting tidbit: you can get the very latest Japanese manga translated to Chinese often within one week of publication in Japan. This is because 1) Japanese and Chinese are read right to left, so it simplifies artwork translation issues, and 2) the Japanese publishing houses have Chinese-fluent translators doing the word balloons for Japanese manga in Chinese at the same time the Japanese version is being done.)

I believe that JAA flies from TPE to FUK, KIX and now NRT. Fukuoka has a pretty large Chinese ex-pat population due to its closeness to China.
 
danialanwar
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:13 pm

RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 am

Question ... how did other airlines get around this? Just ignoring PRC rhetorics??? (sounds questionable)
Airlines that come to mind here are Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways, United, Air Macau
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:02 pm

ANA's subsidary, Air Nippon have flights to Taiwan.
There are airlines both flyin to the mainland and Taiwan such as Dragon Air, Air Macau, Singapore Airlines, Korean Air,.....
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:03 pm

Some additional information regarding LH's flights to Taiwan operated in Condor colors.

The aircraft used for this was B747-400 D-ABTD. The service was relatively short-lived somewhen in the 1994/95 time range.

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airzim
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:16 pm

Just one clarification, Korean Air does not fly to Taiwan nor do Asiana, EVA Air or China Airlines fly between Taiwan and Korea. Political disputes do not allow traffic rights.

Currently Cathay Pacific and Thai are the only airlines with direct service.
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:53 pm

Singapore Airlines, so far, is the only the only airline that has applied for clearance to operate into Taiwan without a creation of any subsidiaries. The rest of the world don't really care, I guess!
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
CPH-R
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:32 pm

Well, I doubt that the US carriers would actually think about following *gasp* Communist! rules.
 
dynkrisolo
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RE: Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:46 pm

Ryanair:

Singapore Airlines is not the only one. Excluding partially Chinese owned Air Macau and Dragonair, what about Thai, Malaysia, Philippine, Vietnam, Garuda(?), Qantas, United, Northwest, Air Canada, UPS, FedEx, and perhaps some more? If memory serves, Thai was the first airline to fly both Taiwan and China under the same brand name.

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