Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:55 am

I have a question for all of you.

How many of you have Airliners.Net cued up on your computer and CNN (or whatever news you watch) on at the same time?

Do you just wait and salivate to be the first one to "break" a story that's airline related whenever it happens?

I've seen a lot of posts that usually have a caption of FLASH! PLANE CRASHES IN OHIO, or something to that extent.

Then the text of the message will usually read something like " just heard about a crash on channel 7. No details available.....

Then there is a great deal of guesswork and speculation as the story unfolds. As an example, when 9/11 happened, there were reports of everything from a Cessna 172 to a 777. USAirways....AirTran....AirCal were named as the parties involved. No one seemed to know the facts. Yet that didn't stop all of you from speculating and throwing in your two cents. You all are just as bad as the reporters that flock to the scene of a crash and do all of that "live remote" second guessing in an effort to announce why the plane crashed no later than 11PM.

Yet you are the same people that hand CNN's ass to them on a silver platter when they show a DC-10 and claim it was an Airbus or something like that. You all laugh and ridicule them for "not getting their facts straight" or "not knowing what they are reporting".

And at the same time, way too many of you do the EXACT SAME THING.


So in the future, you think maybe we can wait until the facts are known? This is not a journalism class with an ongoing race to see who can break the news first-with factual truth being second priority.


Or else keep your mouth shut (or more specifically, your fingers off the keyboard) the next time FOX News shows a file clip of a "United MD-80".

Thank you for your time.



 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:58 am

every member always thinks their right...they will always post regarding major news stories whether they know the facts or not.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:01 am

geez.....five minutes and a one star rating...


Did I strike a raw nerve and hit a little too close to home for some of you?  Big grin
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:02 am

I get my news from the BBC, not CNN.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:03 am

What is so wrong with trying to start a discussion based on current events? If I had not seen anything on a.net about the German crash, even though details were sketchy, I might not have known about it for another 24-36 hours.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:03 am

any minute you will get someone saying "if you dont like airliners why dont you leave?"
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
doug_or
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:08 am

I think you hit a raw nerve... with a sledge hammer. I just love it when the kids make fun of someone for not knowing something.... and end up being wrong. Its one thing for a newperson who knows nothing about aviation to get something he/she should have researched wrong, its entirely diffrent for a self proclaimed aviation expert (who unlike the reporter has no obligation to say anytihng), to go out of their wat to lambast aomeone for incorrect informaiton, then be wrong themselves. It used used to crack me up. now its just annoying.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
brons2
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:09 am

If you don't like Airliners, why don't you leave  Big grin Big grin
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
FrequentFlyKid
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:04 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:11 am

Matt D, I agree with the premise of what you said 100%. However, I will say this: the user's of Airliners.net and CNN (BCC, FOX, ABC, NBC, whoever and so on) are two different types of people (for lack of a better word). Airliners.net user's have no obligation to be accurate and "report" things only when they have all the facts. The news media, however, does, in my opinion, have that obligation. An obligation to make sure what they are reporting (to millions of people worldwide) is, to the best of their knowledge, truthful and not just speculation.
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:13 am

I have absolutely no problem with anyone trying to start a topic based on current events. Hell I've done that many times myself.

The questions I have are as follows:

1. Do some of you make a conscientious effort to be the "first" to break a story?

2. Why do so many of you try and second guess or speculate on something when the facts are not yet known?

3. Why do you criticize the press for doing the same thing?

I really want to focus on questions 1 and 3. The first is fairly obvious. But the unspoken question of number three is that what makes all of you so qualified to report "news" that you really don't know anything about? Does your ability to discern a 717 from an MD-87 or the ability to name 500 airport codes somehow make YOU-more often than not-high school teenagers- more qualified than the multi billion dollar news agencies (BBC, CNBC....Whatever!) and the journalists in their 30's and 40's who have the news reporting experience and the journalism degrees, even though you are both in the same boat of confusion?
 
FrequentFlyKid
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:18 am

Okay Matt, I agreed with you up until the comment on teenagers. Why do we have to go through this all the time. I don't want to get into this again, but why is there such a bad sentiment towards teenagers here? I don't get it.
 
Ilyushin96M
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:21 am

I think this is a pretty good topic, actually. I'm sick and tired of people on this site spouting mindless crap with no facts to back up what they say.

Unfortunately, there will always be some moronic yahoo screaming that he/she won't fly certain types of planes because they are either unsafe (again, no facts to back this up) or just because they look funny. It's always been my opinion that stupid people should keep their mouths shut...yet they are always the ones who are first to give their opinions. Wouldn't it be great if there was a karmatic backhand across the face every time that happened?  Big grin That would look pretty funny...imagine the stunned reporters rubbing their smarting faces. LOL!
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:22 am

I don't have any beefs with teenagers per se. As hard as it may be to believe, I was one once too.

But let's face facts here. The overwhelming majority of users here are, in fact, teenagers. And they do what I mentioned. I'm not saying that second guessing is all inclusive to teenagers only. But I certainly do maintain the position that they, collectively, as a group, take far more credit than is deserved. Are there smart teens and dumb adults?

Of course there are.

But I am talking the norms, not the glowing exceptions.
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:24 am

Matt D

Just a small courtesy point (and I appreciate that you've not quite insulted every journalist who's ever lived) but could you please be a little more careful when referring to the press?

"Journalist" isn't a by-word for "guttersnipe". You appear to be bunching the professional aviation reporters in with the likes of the less-informed members of CNN and BBC (and the A.net users you're condemning).

Most aviation reporters have a healthy respect for the subject, and do their damndest to avoid jumping to conclusions. Journalism is a skilled profession which is often slagged off by naive individuals who think that they know all about it.

Turn your forum title around to read: "The Press - no better than A.net users"

Doesn't sound as comfortable now, does it? Yet it's arguably just as true.

Please can you make sure you don't tar all journalists with the same brush, even if a fair number of them ARE idiots. Many informative discussions on the Internet are made possible through professional news reports and the talented journalists in the world deserve to be commended for their work, not insulted.
 
FrequentFlyKid
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:25 am

Agreed. I just can't until March when I officially am no longer a teenager and automatically move to a new, higher standing here at Airliners.net.  Big grin
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:26 am

I'll answer your 3 questions:

1. Do some of you make a conscientious effort to be the "first" to break a story?

A plane crash is a big and shocking event, and as we're aviation fans, it makes us want to inform our fellow enthusiasts as quickly as possible. This is why you will see several thread starters on a breaking news, everyone wants to report it because it's big news.

2. Why do so many of you try and second guess or speculate on something when the facts are not yet known?

This is only human nature, when a plane crashes, people will want to speculate the cause, why it happened, how it happened, where it happened etc. Guessing is the norm, everyone does it at some point in various situations. People are curious, they want answers. If a.net users didn't speculate or guess, then what would we discuss?

Why do you criticize the press for doing the same thing?

Because they are highly paid professionals who should get their facts right, most of us on a.net are not professionals, we're amateurs.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:09 am

>>>>>>Why do you criticize the press for doing the same thing?

>>>Because they are highly paid professionals who should get their facts right, most of us on a.net are not professionals, we're amateurs.

While this is a reasonable statement, it doesn't take one critical item into consideration.....

Time.

Back in during the summer of 1996, I was driving crosstown one evening, and news hit the radio that TWA 800 had gone down off Long Island. After about :30 seconds, I clicked the radio off. When I got to my destination (in-laws home) about 20 minutes later, everyone was around the teevee watching CNN. I glanced at it on the way in, but didn't pay much attention to it. When my mother-in-law asked me why I wasn't watching, I explained to her the :30 seconds of radio news I'd listen to on the way over. Specifically, I told her that the only absolute things that were known for sure at this point were:

1/ A 747 is down off Long Island
2/ It was TWA 800
3/ Wreckage is burning on the water.

Other than the :30 seconds it took to hear that on the radio on the way over, NOBODY had had any further info, least of all, authoritative info, to offer. That kind of info evolves over several days post-accident. Yet, thousands of folks were glued to the teevee, watching the wreckage burn, and listening to the teevee folks to yak/speculate in order to fill-up all the airtime. Of course, folks take that yak/speculation all that much more seriously, since "they saw it reported on the TV news..." etc.

I'm fully supportive of a free press, and their duty to inform, but sometimes the events that they're covering don't lend themselves to fitting in with the media's timelines and deadlines. Not wanting to listen to the babble, I exercise my right to click the "off" switch.

Just my 2 cents....

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
xray
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 11:13 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:17 am

this would be a dull forum if only cold hard facts were allowed, there's always room for speculation and debate.
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:37 am

Exactly xray, speculation,debate and theory are what makes this site interesting.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:41 am

Though I respect your opinion MattD, do you view such posts with the intent to learn or to be disgusted?  Laugh out loud
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:55 am

THe roblem is this. We get our news from CNN and BBC and as the public we expect them to be reliable. On a.net you have to take everything with a grain of salt. The reason they are worse is that they are the pros.... more should be expected of them.
 
sk945
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:28 am

RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:02 am

I guess the easiest way to get around this is just to question everything you either read here at a.net and see on the TV. CNN aint the most reliable source for news. They are so fast that they change the info every minute and here at a.net everyone is free to say what ever they feel like. So, just question everything you here and read.
 
Britair
Posts: 900
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:14 am

I think everyone has a right to his or her opinion.....how are we supposed to learn or interact with each other without discussion. I am all for posting what you want when you want. Just accept the concequences. There is too many angry posts here. Some of the best and longest threads have come from ambiguous statements and breaking news type posts. Who is to say what is right and wrong. I for one enjoy getting different points of view....regardless of the posters age. I wish I was a teenager again!!  Smile You guys are very welcome as far as I can say, besides, what relevance is age if the point you make sparks a great discussion.

Let's not get into censorship. History shows where that leads.

 Smile Happy chatting one and all.



 
SESGDL
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:16 am

Matt D,

You're sad! What a wasted EXCUSE for a topic, why don't you go get a life and think about stuff that's actually say......IMPORTANT!

Jeremy
 
Braniff727
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:25 am

I agree that there are a lot of frivolous posts on here, but as many have pointed out, a crash is a major event.

I would like to point out a specific event that had it not been for A.net, I would not have known about until I left work. 9/11.

I sat here at my desk, and the only way I could get information was from this very forum. Non of the news sites were available.

Had it not been for people posting, I would have had no clue what was going on.

I guess Matt you just have to deal with it. This isn't a newspaper, or a news channel. This is a website for people that really like planes. No one is required to have gone to school and have a degree in Aeronautical engineering to be able to post a question, breaking news or their opinion here. If it was a requirement, this would be an extremely boring site, and I'm sure nearly all of us would have surfed on out a long time ago.
Climbing
 
Dazed767
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:10 am

I agree with Braniff727 110%, I was at school and had an hour break between classes, I saw what was happening on TV. I couldn't hear because of so many people crowded around so I got on the computers and got caught up with everything in the forums. If we wait til the facts are known, that could be 5-6 hours later!
 
Thumper
Posts: 520
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:03 pm

Have to agree with you on all the experts! As far as teenagers go most of them are pretty bright,just lack a little experience and then there are those like SESGDL who prove there age!
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:29 pm

Matt,

After 9/11 I thought you said you will never use this site again ??

 
User avatar
BNE
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:22 pm

Username: OPNLguy

I agree with OPNLguy, I hate all the speculation that goes along with big accidents. I like to hear the news but I hate Current Affair shows to much sensationalism. When I hear heard about the last accident I read it and then didn't bother to read all the responses coming up on Airliners.net because most were speculation.
911 tragedy happened at night in Australia after I heard about the 3 planes been down and a 4th missing after they identified the 4th I went to bed because I knew for the next 6 hours there would just be speculation.

back to the original question.

1. Do some of you make a conscientious effort to be the "first" to break a story?

I think everyone wants to be first to post a new breaking story, its like a competition. Know one remembers who came 2nd only the people that came first. Anyone remember you posted the story on a.net about the twin towers. I think it was Hustler, does anyone remember any of the replies. NO Not likely.

2. Why do so many of you try and second guess or speculate on something when the facts are not yet known?

Probably because they think they know better.

3. Why do you criticize the press for doing the same thing?

The free press is great but if they are going to report a story they should get the facts straight, read a tabloid if you want speculation.

Interesting topic I give it 5 stars.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
backfire
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:54 pm

Being first is completely irrelevant if you're not accurate. That was demonstrated during the US presidential election when the main networks broke in to declare Al Gore the winner.
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:48 pm

If we wait til the facts are known, that could be 5-6 hours later!

Good Lord.  Insane

What does that have to do with anything? If you are tied up in school anyway, why do you just HAVE to know and know NOW? How is having or not having that information going to determine the course of the day? Are you hoping that the story will be a diversion from todays algebra lesson or Edgar Allen Poe reading session? Maybe the teachers will "forget" to assign homework and let everyone go home to "mourn" or "watch the story"? (of course we all know that that would've really meant an extra weekday trip to the mall or the pizza shop)

What are you saying? You'd rather have bad information now as opposed to good information later? Are you that hard up and desperate to "keep up with the Joneses" that having info "first", and the legitimacy of that info is of secondary importance?

Sounds like an insecurity complex to me.

How is that knowledge going to in any way affect your immediate activities-unless you happen to be in school three blocks from where it happened? And if that were the case, you wouldn't NEED a TV. The info would be right in front of you.


 
qantas777
Posts: 390
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:58 am

Someone has a weed up their ass.
 
jgore
Posts: 518
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:03 am

Hey!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!
My post was deleted ????!?!?!?!?!?!? What's been up ??

jgore  Sad
 
jgore
Posts: 518
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:07 am

Sorry, i got confused about nother thread.

jgore  Smile
 
jgore
Posts: 518
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:07 am

Sorry, i got confused about another thread.

jgore  Smile
 
Pe@rson
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RE: A.Net Users: No Better Than The Press

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:08 am



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