Alitalia777
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 7:19 am

United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:55 am

Does anyone know what Air New Zealand and United are planning on doing to compete with Qantas with their A380's? Do either of them plan on purchasing this aircraft? Or will they buy the new stretched out 747's (747-600ER I think)? Will United start using the 777? Or do they just plan on keeping what they have.
Also, I know it has been discussed to death but is there any news on United installing PTV's in there 747's? Air New Zealand?

Alitalia777
 
DIA
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:00 am

Woah!

United PTV's on 744s coach class? In the works.

UA or ANZ A380 customers? Not in the near future.

747-500/600s? Plans were scrubbed for anytime soon, if ever.

Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
dutchjet
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:05 am

First, the 745 and 746 are not happening, so that is out.

Traffic between the US and NZ is less that traffic between the US and Australia, thus ANZ does not really need the A380 at this time - maybe in a few years; ANZ is not a big player on the LAX-SYD route. UA is also a potential A380 customer, but it has lots of work to do concerning its finances before signing up for this wonderful but very expensive new airplane.

As traffic grows, look for UA and NZ to step up capicity on the South Pacific routes out of LAX and SFO, with extra 744s or 777s, and that is about it. QF has a commanding lead on the LAX-SYD/MEL/BNE routes and does quite well with its LAX-AKL route, and the A380s are needed.
 
doug_or
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:07 am

so long as UAL 744s are working on their tan down in AZ, I don't think that UAL will be looking for ways to increase capacity.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
airnewzealand
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:31 am

AirNZ is expected to release its cabin upgrade plans and long haul fleet announcement in Nov of this year, and yes Sleepers, PTV's are all expected. Expect it to look something like SQ!!

On the answer given by Dutchjet..
That is purely wrong. AirNZ far outweighs Qantas on its LAX routes. Many people choose to fly Qantas on domestic as they have no chance but too, but when reaching SYD they usually transfer to AirNZ as they deliver a far superior product people say.
Yes, sometimes QF can have higher loads, BUT the percentage of the time AirNZ outweighs QF 2-1!!

Cheers
Mike

PS: You also have to take into consideration that QF has feeder traffic where as AirNZ donot! on the SYD-LAX SERVICE.
 
B747-437B
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:48 am

You also have to take into consideration that QF has feeder traffic where as AirNZ donot! on the SYD-LAX SERVICE.

Actually, NZ has a very strong codeshare feed on the LAX side of the flight, as well as passengers connecting from LHR on the Westbound Kangaroo route.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Alitalia777
Topic Author
Posts: 484
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AirNewZealand

Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:22 am

did you ever get any pictures of ANZ's 747 pacific class for me. If you don't remember, I was the person who emailed you about that, and you said that you would try next time they go in for maintenance. If you didn't get them, thats ok. I'll get over it, lol.

Alitalia777
 
United Airline
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:11 am

Also, I know it has been discussed to death but is there any news on United installing PTV's in there 747's? Air New Zealand?

Not until they have sorted out their Financial Difficulties.



 
United Airline
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:19 am

Alitalia777,

I am not sure whether or not this is what you looking for.

Pleaes go to: http://www.airnz.co.nz/travel/ontheplane/statpage.jsp?pid=8014#
 
Guest

RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:13 am

Again, ANZ is due to announce new international strategy by the end of this year.

Wondering anything new will show up.  Smile
 
United Airline
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:21 pm

Jim,

What will that be?

-Desmond
 
Al
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:18 pm

AirNewZealand wrote:
"On the answer given by Dutchjet..
That is purely wrong. AirNZ far outweighs Qantas on its LAX routes. Many people choose to fly Qantas on domestic as they have no chance but too, but when reaching SYD they usually transfer to AirNZ as they deliver a far superior product people say. Yes, sometimes QF can have higher loads, BUT the percentage of the time AirNZ outweighs QF 2-1!!"

Sorry Mikey, but that's totally incorrect (or purely wrong in your words  Smile/happy/getting dizzy) and Dutchjet *is* right. It's QF that now "far outweighs" NZ on LAX. Just looking at it by schedule alone, QF run 4, (soon 5 on most days) per *day*, while NZ don't run that many per day N.Z. to LAX even if you include the South Pac milkruns and the nonstops from N.Z. as well as the 3 per week SYD-LAX nonstop.
If there is still doubt, these are the official stats from LAX itself:

Total percentages LAX Jan-Dec 2001 per airline:
A/L .......Rev Ops ...Ttl Mkt Share

QF ....... 3,717 ....... 0.526
NZ ....... 3,430 ....... 0.485

Total # of Pax 2001
Departures - NZ - 446,123 QF - 458,884
Arrivals - NZ - 443,550 QF - 455,856

[Rev Ops = Total Revenue Operations for 2001
Ttk Mkt Share = Total %age of Market Share of LAX traffic.]

Even though these are last years figures, 2002's already show a much wider gap between the two, all in the favour of QF, given NZ's gradual decline in South Pac runs. 12,000 extra pax is quite a huge difference. I will agree with you that earlier in the 90's with it's FRA flight, the very frequent island jumping milk runs and the PPT route (most of which are now gone) NZ did indeed command a greater presence than QF at LAX. However, it just simply isn't true anymore and hasn't been for a couple of years at least, if not longer.
Cheers/Regards. Al.
 
dutchjet
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:35 pm

Sorry for the controversy, it was unintended.

The discussion started with QF's and NZ's respective need for the A380....to clarify, I was really only talking about the LAX-AKL and LAX SYD runs which are candidates for A380 service. QF dominates in the LAX-Australia market and the A380 could be used already for the LAX-SYD flights, as there are now multiple 744 departures. NZ, which is not such a big player in the LAX-SYD market (now 3 flights per week)......and LAX-AKL does not see the traffic numbers that LAX-SYD does with and also QF competing on that route. NZ does have many flights in/out of LAX, but the south seas services to places like Tahiti, Fiji and the Cook Islands, mainly flown by 763 aircraft, do not warrant the A380. In the future, when traffic improves, frequency may increase on those routes.

NZ is one of my favorite airlines, and I hope they succeed. Will they order the A380? I dont think the timing is right and the only potential route I think is the AKL-LAX-LHR run.
 
airnewzealand
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Wed Jul 10, 2002 10:12 pm

I admitt Defeat...LOL...
Yes it is true..cant beat facts from LAX airport can we. But from the loads i have been told lately..AirNZ far outweighs QF.
Oh well...sorry for that guys, And thanks AI for correcting me!!

Cheers
Mike
 
Guest

RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 1:59 am

Weeks ago, when Air New Zealand announced new domestic strategy, they also mentioned that the new international plan will be announced by the end of this year.

I don't know anything yet.  Big grin
 
Al
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:52 am

It's all knowledge Mikey, not corrections. There are numerous resources to check on "facts" given to you by people if you're not sure, and the fact of the matter at the moment is all 3 carriers on the South Pac-LAX/SFO runs are doing ultra heavy loads. Ergo, QF with it's 4 744's a day should be, and are, (according to LAX figures) carrying a lot more than NZ at the moment. Guess the moral is, never believe what the press tell you, or what "friends" tell you is "God's own truth" !!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy The roads of life are littered with people let down by "real facts given to them by someone they trust".
Cheers. Al.
 
NZ767
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:05 am

Will they buy the 777 for AKL-HKG-LHR?
I don't think they will until their financial difficulties are sorted out.

Comments? Big grin
 
dalecary
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:47 am

it seems to be more than likely that soon after the New Zealand election on July 27 that the QF bid for 25% of NZ will be decided. If, as a lot of so-called analysts are right, QF will become a 25% shareholder in NZ. I assume that means NZ-UA deals are dead and that NZ's long-haul strategy could change dramatically.
Should be a very interesting coupleof months.

Dale.
 
Crosscheck
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 9:15 am

Well spoken "AI"

My only question is.

If Air New Zealand outweighs QF on the Pacific, then where are Air New Zealand seating all these extra passengers, "On the Wing".

Qantas have over the last few months had very good loadings on all their Trans-Pacific flights, and I can only guess that Air New Zealand & United are the same.

So lets just say, everyone's probably doing well on the old Pacific Runs

Thanks
 
airnewzealand
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:34 pm

Will keep that in mind Al...

Cheers Mate
Mike
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: United And Air New Zealands Plans

Thu Jul 11, 2002 7:47 pm

Just as a point that was sort of mentioned I have heard that QF have been having really high loads on AKL-LAX lately!

I wonder if UA will perhaps introduce a second daily flight from AKL to the US West Coast? Perhaps SFO??

I think alot will be unveiled on how NZ are doing when the longhaul strategy is released!