bobcat
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm

Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:29 pm

Are CVRs from 9/11 planes available to the public?
Were CVRs recovered from all four planes or just the one
that crashed in PA?

Also, where is that website that have CVR audio files
or transcripts from past crashes?

Thanks for any info.
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:34 pm

No CVRs but the ATC tape from CLE center is available at http://www.airdisaster.com. For flight 93.
This Website Censors Me
 
bobcat
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 11, 2002 12:37 pm

thanks! that was going to be my second question... why is the flight#93 ATC tape the only one available?
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3974
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Pub

Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:42 pm

Bobcat's original question still stands - have the CVRs and FDRs been recovered from the three aircraft that hit the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon? I would be amazed if they could have survived the collapse of the towers, but perhaps they were thrown clear when the aircraft hit - there was definitely plenty of faling debris visible in the video sequences.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:01 pm

I don't think they were ever found @ the WTC or @ the Pentagon. I never heard a news report that they were found.

If I remember correctly, there is some stupid federal law that prevents the NTSB from releasing CVR tapes. I think it goes back to Delta 1141 @ DFW but I'm not sure.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:57 pm

The reason that these tapes are not released to the public is because they're private.
They are a record of conversations between the crew (and in this case, the hijackers) on the flightdeck.
Therefore, I don't see any value to be gained in their release in the same way that I wouldn't want the general public hearing what goes on in my office.
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The P

Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:22 pm

Yeah, we've got to respect the hijackers privacy!
If these tapes exist they should be released as evidence of a crime unless the government has a pretty good reason not too.

Hisham.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:30 pm

Hisham,

"Yeah, we've got to respect the hijackers privacy!"

I was expecting a stupid, unthinking comment like that.
Read the WHOLE post, not just the bit in brackets that suits you.
These tapes contain CREW conversations.
It's their privacy that has to be protected, not to mention the families of those crew members.
How do you think they would feel hearing the last words of their loved ones?
Might be entertaining for the ghoulish amongst us.
And you brought up another reason too.
They're evidence in a crime. Therefore, they're sub-judice or "before the courts.
How many cases have you heard of where evidence is released to the public before it's been tested in court?

 
sudden
Posts: 3934
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:42 pm

I don't say that NZ767 is wrong, but it makes me wonder why they made the ATC tape available for the public from UA93.
There was a lot of talk between the crew and the hijackers. And they even broadcasted it on TV!!!!????

Here is the ATC tape from UA93
http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/atcwav.shtml
I might add that this tape is a sensored version.
When in doubt, flat out!
 
Delboy
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:45 pm


Well said NZ767.

As always, the ghouls out there get a huge kick listening to this kind of thing.

Bobcat et al.

What possible reasons do you have for the need to listen to the tapes?

You know what will happen next don't you. Some sicko will request the tapes from the mid air in Switzerland.
 
hisham
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Pub

Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:52 am

I'm not interested in listening to the tapes.

They can release the transcripts instead of the tapes. All I'm saying is that evidence is public. People get hurt all the time by their loved ones' testimonies in court. That's how the system works.

Hisham.



 
wingman
Posts: 2829
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:54 am

I disagree completely. When a flight crew fulfills its mission on a daily basis then their conversations should be private. But when the cockpit becomes a crime scene and the actions taking place in that cockpit cause 3000 deaths and $50B in damage, directly impacting me as a former New Yorker and taxpayer, that conversation should become part of the public record. The bottom line is that I want to know the truth.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Pub

Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:55 am

As for the CVRs themselves, I highly doubt they will ever be found. They are designed to take abuse, but not to the extreme in which they were fated to. I honestly think the CVRs for the Pentagon plane and the PA plane were recovered, but they were not announced to the public. As for the WTC aircraft, those thing are probably sitting in a pile of rubble @ Fresh Kills. But one could speculate that the CVRs for all flights were recovered, and they are being treated as a very hush hush matter.
 
Pilot1113
Posts: 2276
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

2 Have Been Found

Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:20 am

Two of the four have been found. They recovered the ones from UAL93 and AAL77. AAL77 was the flight that crashed into the Pentagon (which coincidently destroyed my grandfather's office).

In other words the CVR/FDR were recovered from the Pentagon crash site.

- Neil Harrison
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:23 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:31 am

CVR's are played for investigators and other authorities, but the public release of that information is cheesy.

The same people that thirst to listen to CVR's are usually the ones that are gawking at a traffic accident trying to catch a glimpse of the gory details.

What's "Joe Six Pack" going to do with a CVR recording? Nothing. This aint "The Osbournes".

Remember when they released the AA-Cali accident CVR on television? What value was that? Nothing. It didn't improve safety, fix the problem, make air travel safer, just created a small 'up tick' in the ratings performance for that evening news broadcast.

Doug Taylor
jetcareers.com
 
hawkeye2
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:24 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:42 am

Someone leaked the contents of the CVR tape of UA 93 (but I don't think the tape itself) to Newsweek last December, and there's a article describing it in detail; it's probably on the Newsweek web site somewhere.
 
Guest

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:50 am

I have to ask the question, why would you want to listen to the tapes? To me it smacks of voyeurism of the worst type. Chances are that the CVR tapes for the 9/11 crimes would have recorded over the initial cockpit invasion(s) anyway. When it comes to other aircraft accidents, the CVR information is there for legitimate investigators to review. For the rest of us, there is simply no need to know what was said during the crew's last few moments. Over the years, I have had occasion to hear the actual tapes and/or read the transcripts of a couple of fatal accidents . In many cases, what was said during those last moments, was deeply and intimately personal messages to family and loved ones. I have no desire to ever have to go repeat those experiences again.

Jetguy
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:44 am

When they played the tapes for the families, a lot of people criticized them for that. I think they should at least release a transcript of the CVRs, so that the public knows what exactly transpired onboard those aircraft. It would end the speculation that has been running rampant since 9/11.
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:30 am

Aside from the fact that the CVRs from the WTC impacts were completely destroyed, it seems everyone's missed the real reason the CVRs haven't been released...

*ahem*

They are considered EVIDENCE.

They are evidence in a federal trial against Zarcarias Moussaoui, and any other potential people to-be-indicted for the 9/11 attacks. If this evidence is released to the public, it has the potential to taint the potential jury pool and prejudice the legal community.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
bobcat
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:39 am

releasing the CVR tapes from the 4 hijacked/crashed planes isn't such a bad idea... there are still plenty of people out there who do not believe Arab terrorists are responsible for 9/11.

If the CVR tapes are private, why are there so many other recordings from other accidents out there? Some websites even have them for downloads...
 
Guest

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:42 am


If the CVR tapes are private, why are there so many other recordings from other accidents out there? Some websites even have them for downloads...


If you read the disclaimer at the end of TV documentaries/news shows that use said recordings, it says the policy of the NTSB is to not release CVR recordings. They are obtained from other sources (probably orgs like unions, part/aircraft manufacturers, attorneys involved in lawsuits after the crash, etc.) who may have had reason to have access to said tapes during their portion of the investigation.
 
brons2
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:01 am

One other point about the flight 93 CVR, it would tell us the truth about whether the plane did indeed crash in the struggle for control or if it was shot down by the military.

Remember, Cheney did give orders several times to shoot down United 93 when it appeared to be headed for DC.

Not that I believe that the military actually shot it down, but it would certainly remove that possibility beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
Guest

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:07 am


One other point about the flight 93 CVR, it would tell us the truth about whether the plane did indeed crash in the struggle for control or if it was shot down by the military.


How so would it tell the truth?
Apparently much of the CVR recording was garbled voices, screaming, loud noises, etc. I don't really see how whether it was shot down or not would be apparent from a cockpit voice recording.
 
flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

Top Secret, Perhaps?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:27 am

Redngold is right. The recordings are evidence, and are probably top-secret material. I wonder why people would want to hear them anyway, other than to satisfy some sick personal want or need. I wouldn't hold my breath. They will probably never be released.

Chris in Orlando
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1480
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:18 pm

For some reason I highly doubt that CVR's will "taint the jury pool". If a massive terrorist attack such as 9/11 doesnt taint any freedom, happy living human being, nothing will! In certain aspects the CVR's are small beans to this case.
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:24 pm

If any ATC tapes were found after the brutal, murderous and cowardly act, they will not be released until the criminal investigations are completed since they are "Evidence". I dont think tapes were found at the WTC since everyone and everything there was obliterated.

Transcripts are usually part of NTSB reports, whcih you can find at....

www.ntsb.gov
 
hawkeye2
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:24 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:59 pm

According to the Newsweek article (you can search for it on the newsweek.com site, I'm too lazy right now  Smile ) the UA 93 crew was ALREADY DEAD at the beginning of the CVR tape, and the plane was delibrately crashed by the terrorists after the passengers started attacking them in the cockpit, overwhelming them.
 
jhooper
Posts: 5560
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:27 pm

RE: Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?

Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:47 pm

Had the passengers been able to subdue the hijackers, was there anyone on the flight qualified to operate the aircraft?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.