David_itl
Topic Author
Posts: 5991
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:13 am


Seems that a Highland Airways (=small Scottish? air-taxi firm) aircraft was warned to get off it's normal flight path between Stornaway and Benbecula by a warship on exercise. Though this story says the commander of the warship is to be reported by the airline and air traffic controllers to the Civil Aviation Authority as no notification of a restricted zone had been requested prior to the exercise.

If I remember correctly, they've only got the one J31 (= G-BTXG).

David/MAN

 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
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RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:42 am

Well it could have been worse, remember the Iran A300 !!
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:36 pm

This aircraft wasn't operating in a war-zone.

Also, chances are this airline crew actually knew what a transponder was and how to use it correctly.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:26 pm

Given the US military's penchant for 'friendly fire' incidents, it was probably just as well! Big grin Big grin
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:45 pm

Hi

I would have told the Navy guy to pi** out of our waters.

Cheers

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:01 pm

I would have told the Navy guy to pi** out of our waters.

Yeah, well how would you react if next time the UK needed NATO assistance, the US told them to piss off?

Remember, the vessel was on a NATO exercise. So lighten up.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
F4N
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:37 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:49 pm

To all:

It is a very prudent and normal course of action for a military vessel to warn civiian a/c if they are approaching an exercise zone. Bear in mind that modern missiles have greatly expanded acquisition envelopes so planners have to take into account the passing of civilian a/c. One needs only to look at the tragedy in the Ukraine to see what can go very wrong if caution is not
exercised.

F4N
 
G-KIRAN
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:55 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:59 pm

DeltaSFO:How would you like it if we stuck HMS Ark Royal near JFK and told it to start directing traffic?
 
David_itl
Topic Author
Posts: 5991
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:02 pm


It might also be prudent for any warship to flag up it's intended exercise area so that all civilian traffic can keep well clear of it before the exercise commences.

David
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:52 pm

>Yeah, well how would you react if next time the UK needed NATO assistance, the US told them to piss off?<

Ahem, that's a bit different but as G-KIRAN said how would it be if the boot was on the other foot.

YOU need to lighten up pal.

A small J31 being told to move but some dumb a** on a little boat.......hmmmmmm.

Regards

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:22 pm

Maybe next time the guys on that little boat should do some lifefire exercises using airliners as cheap targetdrones?

Would you like that better Gary?

There probably was a foulup somewhere leading to a NOTAM not going out...
I wish I were flying
 
cwapilot
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 7:10 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 11:16 pm

Some of the responses have to make me laugh...I just need a video clip of kilted Scotsman running towards the shore shouting FREEDOM!!!!!

Anyway, this is a NATO exercise, involving the US, UK and Sweden. As far as I know, having large numbers of friends and family in the armed services, directing civilian aircraft away is a normal course of action. This is certainly nothing to get your panties in a bunch over. The difference between this and the UK sending HMS Whatever into New York and telling it to start directing traffic around JFK should be perfectly clear.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Fri Jul 12, 2002 11:23 pm

Hi all

Comments making me laugh also.

B.O.R.I.N.G.

Cheers

Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
Guest

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:09 am

The point is that the Civial Aviation Authority who has sovereignty of UK airspace was not informed by NATO of anything planned in that area.
 
AeroGlobeAir7
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:09 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:19 am

I really think a guy on a little boat is an understatement. What kind of ship was it? I doubt if it was a supply ship or something like that if it was ordering an airliner out of the airspace around it. Remember, it's a military excersize....and the government of the UK obviously gave the ship permission to do so....and I really doubt if the ending would've been happy if the plane had kept flying through. You gotta remember, airliners don't have the right to fly wherever they want like fighters do (with government permission).
 
travelin man
Posts: 3203
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:29 am

The point is that the Civial Aviation Authority who has sovereignty of UK airspace was not informed by NATO of anything planned in that area.

Just because the UK military (who were participants) failed to warn UK Air Traffic Control of the excercise doesn't mean that ships participating in the excercise (whether it was a UK ship, US ship, or Swedish ship) should not warn off approaching aircraft. Seriously, what's the big deal, besides a communication problem between NATO and UK ATC?
 
Guest

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:35 am

The big deal is that the UK media portrays the UK a the US's poodle. This type of thing only makes it worse.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3203
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:51 am

Sorry some people have such an inferiority complex.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:51 am

Seriously, what's the big deal, besides a communication problem between NATO and UK ATC?

A shot down aircraft would be a big deal  Insane
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1066
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:11 am

What strikes me here, is how everyone complains when an aircraft is shot down by the military on accident and they complain about "Why didnt they tell the plane to divert around the excercise area, or inform the pilot?" Then when this happens, and nobody is shot down or killed, everyone says, "Why did they make that airliner divert around the excersise area, and how dare they tell the pilot to do that!!"

What a world
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:17 am

G-KIRAN wrote:
DeltaSFO:How would you like it if we stuck HMS Ark Royal near JFK and told it to start directing traffic?

Granite wrote:
Ahem, that's a bit different but as G-KIRAN said how would it be if the boot was on the other foot.

YOU need to lighten up pal.

A small J31 being told to move but some dumb a** on a little boat.......hmmmmmm.


If it was a NATO exercise going on off US waters and HMS Ark Royal directed commercial traffic out of the exercise area, I would be fine with that.

And how odd that nary a mention has been made of the live fire incident involving a Royal Navy frigate. The article mentioned that as well. Guess you guys were too busy slamming the U.S. to notice.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Cou

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:26 am

I can't wait until the next time these European nations need us so we can leave them to rot.

To take this nothing of a story and make it another "look at those arrogant Americans!" thread is so typical of how this board has evolved.

So Granite, Maybe if the US was around in the early 1700's we could have prevented you being taken over by the English. Sorry we werent there and now you have to take orders from London.
 
Guest

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:53 am

RedAirForce: Europe is on the way up and as far as I can tell the USA is on the decline. Lets see who needs who in 20 years.
 
EGGD
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RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:00 am

"Rolls eyes". This is really, really, sad! Why can't we just accept facts and be done with it. You just can't do this sort of thing, not mention that you need a 'no fly zone' and then give orders to an aircraft to change course, which could have led it into danger???.

 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:17 am

I can't wait until the next time these European nations need us so we can leave them to rot.

Idiot. Have you EVER thought that it's POSSIBLE that the American ship actually was WRONG?!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:29 am

"RedAirForce: Europe is on the way up and as far as I can tell the USA is on the decline. Lets see who needs who in 20 years."

20 years? I will give the EU 15 years before it goes KAPLUNK
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:20 am

Another euro v US war!!

Amusing or what?!!!!!

*sigh*

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:21 am

20 years? I will give the EU 15 years before it goes KAPLUNK

Any reason?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
F4N
Posts: 507
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2000 11:37 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:23 am

To all:

Some of you guys seem to miss the point; a warship about to engage in livefire missile excercises warns a civilian a/c to avoid the area, change course, whatever, based on safety concerns and it is being turned into some sort of sovereignty compromise or violation. You gotta be kidding...

If the a/c would have been struck by a missile fired by any of the vessels on exercise, would you not want to know why the a/c was not warned and
furious over the lack of communication, direction and safety? Even if ATC had failed or had otherwise not been informed, would you not expect one of the vessels involved to warn the oncoming a/c, like it did??

Regards,

F4N
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:34 am

G-KIRAN wrote:
DeltaSFO:How would you like it if we stuck HMS Ark Royal near JFK and told it to start directing traffic?


Just to echo DeltaSFO, I would think that we would be happy in any way to oblige and assist the Royal Navy in any way possible.



You're only as good as your last departure.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:50 am

"20 years? I will give the EU 15 years before it goes KAPLUNK

Any reason?"

777 just a feeling. i said i am giving, i never said it will happen......Im just imagining what will happen when one of the nations gets too powerfull in the EU....Hard to believe UK, France and Germany can get along together...

Just my opinion
 
737heavy
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 9:05 pm

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:33 am

US Arrogance rules. Why can't it do what it wants?

Regards
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:37 am

777 just a feeling. i said i am giving, i never said it will happen......Im just imagining what will happen when one of the nations gets too powerfull in the EU....Hard to believe UK, France and Germany can get along together...

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinions. The thing is, the UK, France and Germany ARE getting along. There are differences, and whatever some of the press is saying, they're pretty minor. We all realise it's better for us individually if we all work together.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Arsenal@LHR
Posts: 7510
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:42 am

We all realise it's better for us individually if we all work together.

Not with the Euro it isn't  Big grin

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
us330
Posts: 3421
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 11:05 am

Who cares whose ship it was. The point is that if any other ship happened to be in the same position, the ship would have done the same thing as the US Naval ship. Better to be warned off by an "intruder" than to lose 15 lives in a tragic accident.
 
PHXinterrupted
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:41 am

RE: US "Warship" Orders Aircraft Off Course

Sat Jul 13, 2002 11:38 am

Oh yeah, France works so well with other countries. lol




Keepin' it real.

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