Superfly
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Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:42 am

British Airways used to have one the worlds best looking liveries and I really liked there tail designs.
Now it looks as though British Airways has allowed every 1st grader in the UK to paint a tail on there aircraft.
What was the reasoning and thought process for this?


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sllevin
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:09 am

Actually, I rather like the 'Chelsea Rose' on the tail of at least on of British Asia's 747-400's -- it's just, well, stunning.

OTOH, I understand that having all the different tails hurt brand identity, although I don't feel the new tail is all that striking.

STeve
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:18 am

Sorry,

Those world tails happen to be the best looking tails in the sky. Its such a shame that now they are being removed.

Just yesterday I saw two BA 744's side by side at CLK in the Canadian `Whale Rider' scheme.
 
bobcat
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:23 am

I used to regard British Airways as having the best looking planes on this planet. Not anymore. After the changed to those ugly tails, I've been avoiding looking at the tails...
 
TimeForFlight
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:31 am

wow - ignorance runs rampant in this neck of the woods... first of all, thats far from 1st grader work. british airways selected acclaimed artists who represented their country and nationality through an incredible form of art. second, while you may only see lines and colors on those tails, the truth is that they all tell stories. many of these were featured in inflight magazines and on other published materials. I strongly urge you to catch up on your education. Visit this site: http://www.lockonaviation.net/sp.pl?f=ba/infokalahari1.jpg There are other stories that come along with tails of similar sorts. Im really quite saddened that you would trash diversity in the way you are. To think that after 9/11, a day that showed just how diverse this world is, people still remain stuck in tradition and "roots" to an extent that they reject another's heritage is disgusting... Its okay if you dont like the tails or the designs, but dont trash people's pride because our your opinion.
 
cmchardyfl
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:36 am

This a thread I started a couple of weeks ago containing a collection of past and present liveries. From the old days until now. There are a few world tail fleets in there and if you take a look at the fleets bearing those liveries, Im sure youll disagree that they are all ugly.


http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/863974/

Cheers
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 11:27 am

Timeforflight:
So because I don't like those tails means I am ignorant?  Confused
I am all for diversity and celebrating one's heritage. I am one of the most liberal members in these forums.
These designs would be better suited as a buckhead design rather than a tail design.


Cmchardyfl:
Sorry but I didn't find my title in the 'search' feature.
I always run a search before I start a topic.  Smile
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Bicoastal
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 11:37 am

"There" tails or "their" tails?

There equals place.

Their equals possessive.

They're equals "they are."

Nothing personal but it's a common error on this board, which I'd like to lessen.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 11:46 am

Thank you Bicoastal.  Smile
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cmchardyfl
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:08 pm

Sorry. Im not saying this is the same as the thread I started, Im saying I have a lot of pictures of the fleet in different liveries in my thread. I liked the world tails, although there were a couple that I wasnt fond of. If BA were going to get rid of the world tails, I thought they could at least keep the Chelsea Rose, Union Flag (......Dockyard?) and Bennyhone as those three liveries, in my opinion, looked very smart and represent the UK.

Cheers
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:17 pm

The BA 'World Tails' outside of Britain were indeed very popular with photographers and spotters the world over. As a photographer living in one of BA's US markets, I will certainly miss the chase of trying to get one of these unique works of art on film. Fortunely, it will be some time before they are all gone and that Houston has 2 BA flights a day increases my chances of getting a design that I may have missed earlier.

But I guess art is truly subjective.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:25 pm

I guess you are a few years behind because the world tails are being replaced by that very boring Union Jack design.

Yes, I did like the world designs they had character and variety, I was also a huge fan of the West Pac logo jets.

Here at DTW where you see NW DC-9 after DC-9 it is nice to see a variety in color schemes. With the Union Jack scheme, you see one BA 744 you seen them all, but with the world schemes you could see a BA 744 in Chelsea Rose, another in Wanula Dreaming and etc.
 
FrequentFlier
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:30 pm

I, personally, really like the World tails, and will be sorry to see them go.

Actually, I think that they are very professional, not at all painted by 1st graders.

Superfly, let me guess, you hate the Continental Peter Max livery too?
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:44 pm

Frequentflier:
How did you know? Big grin
Coninental went from one of the most beautiful to one of the ugliest colors ever.
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BWIA 772
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:46 pm

BA;s previous liveries were not bad. However the livery in which a plane is done can be used as a form of advertisement. Products need to be re-vamped and/or re marketed in such away to reflect that the business has evolved and to show the cooperate image of the company. I think that BA's idea not only potrays the airline as one with an extensive world route but as an airline that is contempary.

If BA did this
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what would people who dont like the tails say.lol
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BR715-A1-30
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 12:46 pm

I kind of liked the WORLD TAILS... For me they were a different sight every time, and I never got tired of seeing them.
Puhdiddle
 
Ex_SQer
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:36 pm

"Cool Brittania" on steroids?!? My tuppence worth Big grin
 
B-HXB
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:15 pm

I wish BA would at least keep one of each of the tails a special livery type promotion, even if they are converting all the others to the rather tepid Union Jack livery (I personally think that one looks awful on the 744, although it suits the 777 and Concorde quite well).
 
paulc
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:37 pm

I thought the world tails were awful and they probably cost BA a lot of money to a) appoint consultants b) select designs & artists c) repaint aircraft d) repaint aircraft again when they proved unpopular.

Airlines often have 1 or 2 aircraft in a special scheme - not an entire fleet.

I also believe there were safety implications expecially at night where making a positive identification of an aircraft is important.
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
aviasian
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:26 pm

Superfly: One is not ignorant for not liking the world tails of BA . . . but there are many who do love these tails . . . each one tells a story of the art and culture of a different country that BA flies to.

I personally find these stories very interesting and educational . . . but you need not worry, now that the airline is restoring the flag across the fleet.

KC Sim
Bangkok
 
gkirk
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:33 pm

I believe the tails are being rechanged to a proper scheme because most people in the UK hated them  Big grin
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Silverstreak
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:39 pm

BA, keep the "World Tails" scheme - it is sharp and it is interesting!! BA is a WORLD airline and it really shows it with this livery. Passengers really do look at and are very curious about these works of art. If you are a non-Brit, you do look to see if an artist from your country was included in the group of designs. I think BA shows a great deal of class. Perhaps BA would display the Union Jack on the a/c tails of its' regional services?
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:02 am

It was all because Margeret Thatcher put a hanky over a model of one of them and said that the planes were ugly. That's kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. Someone should put a hanky over Ms. Thatcher.
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:11 am

To answer the original question: the World Tails scheme was designed to convey the image of a worldwide airline, not just a British flag carrier. I think the idea was a great one and if it had had just a bit more Britishness it might have been more acceptable to the English.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
jmc757
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:17 am

lol! it was funny watching the news on the day BA went back on its descision an announced they were going back to a union jack scheme! I liked some of the tals not all of them, and i suppose it will be s shame when they go.

the reasoning was that the british public thought that the airline were 'dumbing down' their Britishness, being ashamed to fly the british falg. It was at a time when many companies were doing this, (British Petroleum officially changed their name to BP, after using the abbreviation for many years anyway). i suppose there was a point, something about national pride i suppose. it cost BA millions, and a lot of bad press (at a time when they didn't need it). Richard Branson loved it. His posters saying "The REAL british airline" etc, and then repainting his planes with the union jack on..... did his airline a lot of good!

The british didnt actually hate the designs, nbot even the idea i suppose, just the fact that British Airways the flag carrier wee doing it. When it comes down to it, you have to listen to your home market...
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:36 am

I personally didn't like the world tails, the old colour scheme was one of the best liveries ever! The new union jack is very stylish and smart also, looks good on the planes.

BA got rid of the world tails after getting criticism from the UK media, plus thatcher's groans didn't help either.

Arsenal@LHR
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jaysit
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:43 am

You have to agree that some of those tails were indeed rather aesthetically questionable. They may have looked beautiful on vases and blankets, but some looked a bit odd on an aircraft. That having been said, there were some that were, indeed, quite amazing. I personally found the Chelsea Rose, Scottish Tartan, South African and Paithani designs beautiful, but then there may be some who disagree. The new Union Jack scheme is sort of blah, IMHO. In any case, except for spotters, BA staff who got their raises stymied in favor of livery embellishments, and Margaret Thatcher, no one seemed to really care. The average passenger walks into an airport terminal and then through a long tube into yet another flying tube and probably doesnt know what the exterior even looks like.
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Greg
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:43 am

I thought it made for a very intersting variety.
Although I didn't like all the schemes....I liked the idea.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:49 am

I wish they had not changed the livery from the old colours. Their 1980s/1990s scheme was very sharp, conservative, and one of the most impressive liveries out there. However, it is being replaced with the dull white livery that is way too common today. BA should have stuck with what was working for them.

Jeff
 
LMP737
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:50 am

I say good riddance to the "artistic" tails and thank God for the return of the Union Jack to BA aircraft.
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Stretch 8
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:08 am

I like the World Tails for the reasons cited above. But one question: why no "American" themed world tail???
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G-CIVP
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:13 am

There was an American themed tail - "waves of the city" which connection to the USA seems tenuous on the face of it.
 
toady
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:14 am

Stretch8, because America is not a minority and, therefore, is not "trendy" enough!
 
blink182
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:29 am

I loved the world tails. They were the best in the sky in my opinion. Unfortunately, Lady Margaret Thatcher(beeyotch) hated them and had enough power to get BA to change them.

The world tails were a classic and there was not one I disliked.

blink
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Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:49 am

I certainly hate to take sides with that Thatcher moron.
I am sure the intent of the world taild was a great idea, it just didn't pleasing to the eye. I am not that crazy about the waving Union Jack either.

This design is very elegant and show that British Airways IS a world class carrier. Those Sesame Street designs make the airline look cheap.

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Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:32 am

This is the 'USA' tail:


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Arsenal@LHR
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FDXmech
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:48 am

I thought one of the initial reasons they went with World Tails was to downplay the Britishness of BA.

When in fact most non-British people fly BA for that very reason, its Britishness...I would think.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
bruno
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:45 pm

Arsenal@LHR



I don't see the United States in that tail. That design could mean anything. That design does not say United States in that desgin.
Superfly is right as far as it being the work of a 1st. grader.

If I fly British Airways, I want to experience British culture not US.
If I wanted US culture on a flight to London, I'd fly American or United.
I support the women’s movement up and down!
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:05 pm

It was Bob Ailings idea (who also had something to do with the milennium dome) how co-incidental both were such huge flops, he lost both jobs  Smile

Basically it was based on the fact that BA wanted to shed it's 'dull grey British image' and to reflect the fact that a majority of it's passengers were not actually from Britain, and it was more of a 'Global Airline'. Unfortunately for BA (and Bob) it backfired on them, and caused a huge outcry in the UK.
It was the day before Virgin Atlantic unveiled their new colour scheme, that BA announced it was dropping the World Images (umm coincidence there ???), after the Press had reported that the Union Jack was to be a prominent feature in the new Virgin Atlantic livery, and Sir Ricky B had announced that Virgin would 'fly the flag' for Britain as BA no longer wanted to.

Personally, I liked some of them, but some were also aload of kack. As I've said on another thread on this topic, I personally preferred the 'interim' colour scheme, with the new shades of red/white and blue, but with the old livery design. (can't be bothered to insert a pic - been at work since 1400 yesterday and still here till 0630 today  Sad . Just do a search for BA, but type 'interim' in the box and you'll see what I mean).

Only 6 days to go 'till 346 day !!!!  Big thumbs up whoo hoo !!!! Big grin
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747-451
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:59 pm

I detest the new liveries; the scheme from 1985 and on was the most dignified and elegegant (especially on the Concorde). Special schemes on a few planes are nice; but doing it to all of them takes away the novelty.
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:28 pm

With the introduction of the modern tail artwork, BA was just far ahead of its time, too far for its conservative country with its conservative population which is mostly orientated in the past, rather than in the future...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:08 pm

Udo:
With the introduction of the modern tail artwork, BA was just far ahead of its time, too far for its conservative country with its conservative population which is mostly orientated in the past, rather than in the future...


I am uneasy with the whole relation to politics. I doubt politics and diversity had anything to do with these world tails. No one was offended by the older designs.
As I have said before, I am all for celebrating diversity. I am one of the most liberal members here in these boards see me in the non-aviation threads .
I just don't think that the tail of an aircraft is the place start a revolution.
Even the waving Union Jack is kind of cheap looking.
The Crown was the best looking design for BA. It was a very sophisticated design and suited the airline very well.
British Airways is a sophisticated airline.  Smile


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wietse
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:44 pm

If I fly British Airways, I want to experience British culture not US.
If I wanted US culture on a flight to London, I'd fly American or United.


is a layer of paint going to influence your flight experience????

Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:53 pm

Does British culture change just if there's a different look on the tail? You must have a strange view of culture...  Laugh out loud


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:55 pm

Wietse:
is a layer of paint going to influence your flight experience????


Well I certainly can't speak for Bruno but I can see his point.
You see Wietse, here at Airliners.net, there are many aviation fans that pay close attention to silly things like liveries, aircraft types, engine types etc.
That's the beauty if this website.  Smile
To most travellers it may seem petty but many photographers, spotters, and other aviation fans value these sort of things.

BTW, you have a very cool profile.  Smokin cool
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hkg82
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:58 pm

I think the World Tails look really good, they add variety & have proven to be a big hit with photographers. BA really stirred things up with their World Tails. People either loved them or hated them. The Landor colours are my favorite & I think one of the best colour schemes of all time, but along with World Tails, are all being repainted into the new Union Jack scheme, which is excellent, but you can't compare it to the Landor colours!!  Smile

The World Tails are really good, but I think one standard colour scheme is better than many different designs from an image standpoint.

Hkg82.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:58 pm

Udo:
Does British culture change just if there's a different look on the tail?

I wasn't the first to say that in this thread. Someone elso above brought in the whole argument of culture and diversity.

Bring back the Concorde
 
Udo
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:17 pm

If too many users here pay attention to "silly things" like liveries,aircraft types and whatever, why do you visit this website then? If it's too silly for you, check out a forum which discusses topics like "Keep British culture British" or "Keep ourselves clean of any modern influence", or "Aircraft enthusiasts - how silly they are".

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
wietse
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:38 pm

Superfly,

I know that the subtle things do it, I am a very fanatic photographer myself, but Bruno said something about culture during his flight. I absolutely don't think a layer of paint is gonna influence the way the cabin crew serve you, eg. they won't start talking with a German or Texan accent all of a sudden. Know what I mean? Personally I love the world tails, they are giving us photographers some variation. Instead of collecting boring reg numbers, you can collect world tails. Thats less nerdish don't you think?  Big thumbs up

Regards,
Wietse
Wietse de Graaf
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Why Did British Airways Disgrace There Tails?

Sat Jul 13, 2002 11:17 pm

I don't know what the USA tail design means, but IIRC, each tail design was created by artists from that country. Hence the USA design was created by am american artist.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!