BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:18 am

Hi Everyone.

I am planning on starting an airline in about 15-20 years. I was wanting to know what aircraft you think I should operate. Not what you like, but what would save money. I would really like to operate one type so that maintenance would be focused on one aircraft. Of course this will be a low-fare airline. The Airline is still in the Stage 1 Planning Phase. But can someone tell me what aircraft I should use. The 717 is already on my list. But I may get a second type for short haul routes... No Regional Jets Please. My Friend will be the COO with his broad range of Operational Knowledge. Can anyone help me out.  Smile
Puhdiddle
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:17 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:21 am

umm, we don't really know what will be available in 15-20 years.
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:23 am

May I ask how much money you have? lol.

I think I would just stick with the 717 for now, but I highly doubt those will be the premier shorthaul aircraft in 20 years.
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:28 am

I'd start with the new A-380XX or possibly the Boeing Sonic Cruiser !!!!

Fly between DAL and HOU every 30 minutes.

It works for Southwest.......

 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:34 am

A380....LOL!!!!!  Big grin Allow me to reiterate.. This will be a LOW-FARE Airline...  Big thumbs up We could not possibly afford an A380. I think we will stick with the 717. DC9s will be totally gone by then (We might pick up some Ex-NWA DC9s)
Puhdiddle
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:51 am

My point was this........why in the heck are we even talking about this subject when you won't even, if ever, begin service 15 to 20 years down
the road. Heck, we all might not even be here by then.

Bush could invade Iraq and start a nuclear war and wipe the whole
planet out..........

I just don't think this is a valuable and worthy discussion at this time.

For all we know, they (Airbus/Boeing) might be bankrupt, or they
could develop new planes that use water for fuel by separating
the hydrogen atoms to power the plane.......15 to 20 years is
too far off to plan an airline........

Jay
 
matthc49
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:16 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:23 am

Don't forget the wonderful 737-200, 300's... Hey, when y'all need a business jet for the exec's, call me up... I recommend the Falcon 50... Gulfstream V has a nice price tag of 33.5 million, hehe...

Matt Chamberlain
5R2
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:40 am

I second what B747-437B said.

This is a pointless thread. Nobody knows what the state of the airline industry will even be tomorrow, much less 15-20 years down the road (hell, Sept 10th I was behind security at JAX looking out the windows at AF1... who knew what would happen to the airline industry 16 hours later?).

What a silly thread...
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:41 am

I'm pretty sure this belongs in the hobby section.
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:43 am

I second what Travatl said about B747-437B, and Seiple --

Matt, If, and I mean IF I ever get business jets for us (which we will probably fly our own airline to places), I will call you up.
Puhdiddle
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:47 am

So in 15-20 years you want to use 717s -- which will be 10-25 years old and out of production, and furthermore you want to use DC-9s?!

Have you even thought about financing?!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:48 am

Have you even thought about financing?!

I think another of his friends will handle that aspect. That friend plans to be rich by then, so that takes care of that.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:56 am

If you cannot help me out, Please do not post anything in here. I am looking for help. Not Criticism  Angry
Puhdiddle
 
cointyro
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2001 2:32 pm

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:01 am

Maybe you should worry about making the cash first, before deciding how to spend it. Also, figure out how you will single-handedly beat all other airlines in the future for passenger revenue dollars. If you succeed here, you deserve to be making decisions on what planes to buy : )

Otherwise, dream on. Shouldn't you be doing your homework?
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:15 am

Ummmmm... I by no means know anything about aviation, buisness, aviation buisness or anything like that... but;

Shouldn't you not be thinking about this right now? 20 years is a LONG time, especially in aviation. 20 years ago Airbus only had the A300 and A310, 20 years ago there were only 2-3 versions of the 737, 20 years ago the largest passenger aircraft beside the 747 was the DC10 and L1011.

You shouldn't be planning which aircraft you are going to operate, because the whole face of aviation could easily change... You just can't plan so far ahead for that sort of thing, almost nothing can be planned so far in advance. Cointyro is correct, you should just concentrate on funding for the next 15 years...
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:20 am

If you cannot help me out, Please do not post anything in here. I am looking for help. Not Criticism

LOL!! You want to start and run an airline without

  1. Critism

  2. Finance


Your bone's got a little machine
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:22 am

I do not need Criticism YET!!!... Criticise me when I first start flying like all of you AirTran Bashers like to do. Yeah, You know what I am talking about. Anyway, First I need HELP, Then I can use the criticism.. Don't give me criticism before the help. Look at Neeleman, He RAISED the Cash to start an airline.
Puhdiddle
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:23 am

If the way you do business on eBay (harrassment and shill bidding) speaks anything about your method of operation, then your airline is going to have trouble.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:23 am

I do not need Criticism YET!!!... Criticise me when I first start flying

Since that ain't likely to ever happen, I'd prefer to criticize you now. Thanks.  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:24 am

Look at Neeleman, He RAISED the Cash to start an airline.

And...? First you need a business plan which you don't have. You need critism BEFORE you start your airline and lose lots of money.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:26 am

Oh boy....this has got to be the most humorous post in my 2 years of coming to these forums.  Laugh out loud  Nuts

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:27 am

Let's see here....

Here's some help:
1.) Clean up your act.
2.) Finish high school.
3.) Go to college. Graduate.
4.) Make a name for yourself in the business world.
5.) Come up with a sound business plan that is apropo to the society and economy of that time.
6.) Secure funding.
7.) Probably go bankrupt or get bought out.
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:28 am

I'll buy those first 6 Seiple. But that 7th can go to your name Big grin
Puhdiddle
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:43 am

incompetent minds

?!

How is your any more competent? You're talking about starting an airline in 15-20 (!) years with no financing or a business plan.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 1:09 pm

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:49 am

I agree with BR715 and Seiple !!

You need to grow up first !!
You are only a kid.......

Then, you need to have "Balls of Steel" to make it
in the airline industry. Obviously, since you can't
handle all the criticism you are already facing here
for this RIDICULOUS post/subject, I don't think you'll
be able to develop those balls !!

Get over it, stupid subject..........

Maybe you can use the Concorde since BA and AF will probably
have removed them from their fleet by then. I bet you could
buy them very cheap out in Mojave !!

Jay
 
matthc49
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:16 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:55 am

Mojave...  Sad Where my poor AA 727 sits that I could have bought for only $600,000... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Get Airline Tycoon and see how you can run one, it's a pretty fun game, Jacob, since you have a cable modem, get Kazaa and download it for free (don't forget to buy it if you like it though  Big grin )
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:59 am

Please cease sending me harrassing e-mails on this subject.
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:42 am

Right on, B747-437B and Seiple  Big thumbs up
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:47 am

Matt, This is Colin's Idea, I just posted it for him to see what people thought. Obviously there are alot of people in here who are mindless. Anyway, I praise Travatl also.
Puhdiddle
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:48 am

BR715: Are you mentally incapable of reasoning the right way? Are you deaf or blind or both? I mean something is wrong. Perhaps you go to a school where they tell you all that your "special"

Dude MAJOR counseling for you!
 
matthc49
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:16 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:49 am

Hehe, ok.

Matt Chamberlain
5R2
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:51 am

I'm going to start an airline that will serve all the planets in our solar system. Since Mars will be the most popular, I'll have half-hourly service to there.

Anyone have any ideas on what aircraft I should get? I'm hoping to start this airline in about 10 or so years. The earlier the better.

Also, what do you all suggest I do to help fund this airline? I'm thinking about maybe going to Bill Gates and asking for half of his entire fortune. What do you guys think?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:53 am

I'm going to start an airline that will serve all the planets in our solar system.

What about service to DEN? Lots of cargo there!  Big grin (Sorry, couldn't resist for old times sakes!)
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:56 am

That's a great idea B747-437B!!!!

I could use the new WorldPort facility being built in DEN that would nearly double Denver's cargo capacity!

http://www.worldportatdia.com

 Big grin
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
blink182
Posts: 5272
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:58 am

Get some 727s,707s and DC-10s  Smokin cool

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:02 am

Anyone have any ideas on what aircraft I should get?

BA, the 717, of course...  Nuts
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:06 am

BR715, good luck avoiding flaming here on the forums. Every opportunity people will get they will find a flaw in you and rip you to shreads. I'd suggest just going low profile at this point  Smokin cool.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:08 am

DLMCO,

That's a great idea. Does have the range to fly to Mars and the other planets in our solar systems?

If not, I'll find a way to ask Boeing to attach this gigantic 1 million square feet fuel tank that will sit on top of the 717. I think that'll be enough. What I'm planning on doing is attaching these rocket boosters on the wings to propel the 717 into the earth's orbit, then the rocket boosters will fall back to earth into the sea where I will collect them and keep reusing them.

Like the space shuttle.

I think at first, since I won't have much money, I better listen to what Blink182 said. I'll get some second hand 727s, 707s, and DC-10s.

Once I make enough money, I'll sell the 727s, 707s and DC-10s and buy newer planes like the 717.

What do you guys think? I'm thinking about naming my airline Orbital Airways. What do you guys think?

I'm thinking about joining the Star Alliance or OneWorld. I can't decide which.....

Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:10 am

SSTJumbo, Thanks. I admit there are some civilized people (Obviously the Civilized people I know of are on my RUsers list)(I still have a few more to add), but people like Seiple and B747-437B27rasdf485p35867 are very uncivilized and need to join the Kiddie Forums. where they can cry to mommy if little joey hits them.

If anyone did not see it, I said I am PLANNING on starting an airline. Most of you people do not know me. Only 2 on this thread have actually met me personally. If you do not know me, do not act so childish. Even if I did get this thing off of the ground, I would like to see the look on seiple's face.
Puhdiddle
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:11 am

BA, Orbital Airways will work, as long as it has a cool livery. After all, that IS what sells tickets, ISN'T IT?  Yeah sure
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:15 am

I'm amazed at the awkwardness and senselessness of your attempts at insults.

You asked for feedback and received it. You asked what you should do and people told you their opinion.

If I started an airline, I'd hire somebody who knows what they are doing to run it for me... like B747-437B. He has significant work history with airline management and came closer than anybody on these forums to having an airline. I'm sure based on his qualifications, and your petty insults toward his person notwithstanding, he could run an airline better than you.  Smile
 
AY-MD11
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 5:31 pm

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:16 am

"DC9s will be totally gone by then (We might pick up some Ex-NWA DC9s)"


Don't be so sure that Northwest will be selling theyr DC9s in 15-20years Big grin




 Big grin
AY-MD11
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:17 am

Nah, AY-MD11, the Northwest DC-9's will be ready to go to second tier airlines in about 2015 according to the airline.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:18 am

lol, that would make some of them, what, 50 years old?
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 8:48 am

The most obvious question: Why?

Are you doing it to make money? In the event that your airline gets lucky and has a profitable quarter (unlike most at present time), will you stand to become a billionaire after payouts to employee benefit plans, or creditors, for example? It's not likely I'm afraid. David Neeleman certainly hasn't gotten filthy rich due to 'founding' Jet Blue; but instead due to his executive positions with Morris Air and Open Skies, and what must be countless smart investment strategies.

Are you doing it to have fun? In an economic slowdown, your will find that your airline's financial performance will be very closely tied to that of the economy.... that's money out of your pocket for the first few years (unless you get bought out). Also consider the potential headaches of employee relations/HR initiatives. Another consideration - competitors. Much has been made of American's so-called "anti-competitive" practices. Northwest/United/Continental/Delta/Southwest/etc (assuming they're still around) will all be just as territorially protective and will present very high barriers to startup.

All of this assumes that you don't have any negative publicity due to government action, poor employee relations, an accident/incident, or a poor route structure. Negative publicity will ultimately affect the bottom line of a startup, making investors even more leary than they already are in a high-risk startup. The same holds true for passengers of an new airline with a bad reputation (Tower Air?).

You're entrepreneurial spirit is good, believe me. But your "economic spirit" is very much undeveloped as of yet. Don't let some of these guys rain on your parade, though..You're also very young, and you haven't been exposed to the complex nature of running a large-scale business.

When you are older, you will definately have a better grasp on some of the finer points of starting your own business, especially regarding economics (a cost-benefit analysis being the most fundamental, in this case)
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:00 am

Look, the reason people are being critical of you, BR715, is that you're basically asking an unrealistic set of questions. It's great that you'd like to start an airline in 15-20 years; just don't forget that the vast majority of airlines started in the last 20 years have all failed, and that the U.S. industry as a whole has had a net loss since deregulation. It's been said that the best way to become a multi-millionaire is to be a billionaire and start an airline.

Very few in 1982 (20 years ago) would have anticipated that Pan Am, TWA, and Eastern would no longer be flying in 20 years (and very few would have predicted the demise of Braniff a few years earlier). Very few would have imagined that tiny little Southwest Airlines with roughly 30 737's would be the sixth-largest U.S. carrier in 20 years. America West didn't even exist, and no one would have imagined that PHX or LAS could have supported airline hubs. The 717, 777, 747-400, Next Generation 737's, A320, A330, and A340 didn't exist; the first MD-80's, 757's, 767's, and 737-300's were just rolling off the production lines, and the L1011 production line was still active.

Consider also that at a relatively modest annual growth rate of 7% compared to historical numbers of 10+%, Southwest will be roughly 4 times its present size and will likely have added service to 30-50 additional cities. jetBlue may well be 10 times its current size in 20 years, and AirTran will likely be several times its current size. Do you anticipate that there will even be an opportunity for an additional low-fare airline to exist in the market by then? Will a start-up low-fare carrier without a large amount of capital be able to compete against the economies of scale which will be enjoyed by the existing large low-fare carriers in 20 years.

15-20 years is just way, way, way too far out on the horizon to do any planning in a consumer cyclical industry like the airlines. You can say today that you're going to want to use 717's, but without knowing what will be available in 2017-2022 and people's travel habits then, it's pretty meaningless.
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:08 am

ScottB,

VERY VERY well said. I applaud you.  Smile

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Boiler Special
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:23 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:14 am

BR715, I love how you cry and call people "kiddies" --- yet you've got Simpsons carriers in your profile mooning us. Who's the "kiddie" and who are you trying to fool??

That said, good luck with your "airline." If you need any help, there's a guy in New Jersey that goes by Emil Bernard that is willing to throw money away on the airline industry. He will be very interested in your proposal.
 
Guest

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:01 am

Leave BR715 alone, you should be really ashamed of your behaviour. BR715, don't pay any attention to them, they're fools.

People like the the critics here are just that: critics.

There are different people in this world:

1. People who can- plan and do.
2. People who can't- criticise.

Finally, I must say that a lot of people criticising BR715 have lost their passion for aviation.

And if those of you who criticise BR715 still do have a passion for aviation like BR715 has, you are absolute wimps and nohopers because you don't talk about you aspirations. You critics are pathetic closet-aviation-enthusiasts!

SixStarAnsett
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: New Airline To Be Started

Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:10 am

SixStarAnsett,

There is a difference between criticizing and being realistic. What BR715 has asked us was an absurd question. First of all, how on Earth are we to know how the airline industry is going to be like in 15 to 20 years? How are we supposed to know what aircraft are available?

The fact is, NO ONE can plan an airline that far ahead.

It's like me planning for a space airline, that will never happen in our lifetime!

I have not lost my passion for aviation whatsoever. I've been a hardcore aviatoin addict all my life. The first time I saw a plane when I was only a couple months old, I bet I instantly fell in love with aviation.

I've been an aviation freak (yes, freak) for as long as I can remember. But I am realistic at the same time. I don't live in a fantasy world.

I don't plan for an airline 15 to 20 years ahead.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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