Guest

BA 757s Going To DHL

Tue Oct 05, 1999 5:46 am

BA has reached a deal to sell DHL 34 757s for use at its European Package hub at Brussels, the sale will be through Boeing, which is going to be doing the conversions in to freighters, deliveries will begin next year......
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2179
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

Anyone Flown On BA 757s?

Tue Oct 05, 1999 6:04 am

This announcement, expected soon, foots with BA's plan to reduce capacity -- putting 777s, for example, on 747 routes.

These 180-seat 757s are being replaced by 150-seat A320s. Aren't BA's 757 already full on many flights, especially up to Scotland?

Anyone who flies BA 757s, I'd be interested in loads.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

UPS Might Be Buying DHL

Tue Oct 05, 1999 6:24 am

Looks like UPS might be increasing the 75 fleet  DHL or TNT is rumoured to be bought by UPS. DHL was almost bought by them back in the early 90's.
 
TERRA
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RE: UPS Might Be Buying DHL

Tue Oct 05, 1999 7:39 am

What a nightmare that would be! I can't imagine UPS buying DHL even though they would like to. I'd have thought that the share holders of DHL wouldn't even entertain the idea. Besides, where would we be without our friendly rivalry.
You definitly won't see me wearing a brown uniform driving around on gaudy yellow g.s.e.

P.S Feel free to buy TNT though any time you like.
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
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BA 757s From LHR-Scotland

Tue Oct 05, 1999 9:15 am

I flew on a BA 757 from LHR-EDI this summer and I can tell you that the flight was PACKED.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
william
Posts: 1575
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

UPS Isn't Buying Anyone,especially DHL Or TNT

Tue Oct 05, 1999 9:31 am

Let me keep it simple. TNT is COMPLETETLY owned by the Dutch Postal System (Darn). And DHL is 25% owned by the German Post Office (double darn).

The reason for the European Post offices getting their hands on private companies is,and someone from Europe help me please,the Europeans are suppose to deregulate their postal system,which is causing this buying frenzy. The reason I know? I just had a TNT salesman walk into my office and try to sell me his services,and he gave me the low down.

There is money to be made in Europe,would not surprise me to see UPS,FEDEX,and Airborne boost their European presence.
 
TERRA
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RE: UPS Isn't Buying Anyone,especially DHL Or TNT

Tue Oct 05, 1999 9:52 am

To get the record straight- Deutsche Post AG own 22.5% of DHL. These shares were previously held by Larry Hillblom until his untimely death in an aircrash. Other share holders in DHL are Lufthansa (25%), Japan Airlines (25%) and Nissho Iwai (7.5%). As you can see Germany and Japan have a keen interest in DHL. Deutsch Post AG is also the largest postal company in Europe giving DHL a valuable partner in this area.
 
Guest

RE: BA 757s Going To DHL

Tue Oct 05, 1999 10:19 am

Hi-

I read too in the October issue of Airliner World that British Airways was looking for a 757 replacment. They said that BA was trying to sell them to DHL, but at this time it was unconfirmed. Is this for sure now? Airlienr World stated that they were looking into the 717 as a replacement aircraft. I know that it sounds weird, but??? I would also like to say to whoever said that the 757 flight that they were on was cramped, BA is not getting rid of ALL of their 757s. Why is BA getting rid of them? Only because they are not being used enough? There must be another factor.

Jack M
 
LH423
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BA B757 To Edinburgh

Tue Oct 05, 1999 11:17 am

I to have flown to Edinburgh on British Airways 757 from LHR. I went in late August during the Edinburgh International Festival. The northbound flight was about 90% full, and was an old colours with the old Club Europe interior. The southbound flight was on the Delftblue Daybreak colours, and had a freshly re-done interior, with really comfortable seats, and adjustable head-rests. It is a shame that they're dispensing their 757s, since they were the second operator of the 757 (after Eastern Airlines). Say, it's not so, say it's a rumour.
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Guest

JWM Airtran

Tue Oct 05, 1999 12:22 pm

BA will get the 320 to replace the 757's this is as BA pilots want to fly the 320 and the newspaper made up the story about the 717 the pilots still know nothing about it.
And the reason BA is getting rid of 20-30 757 is as the are old and smell, or so an BA employee told me. And to be honest the 757 pilot i know did not say they where gettign rid of all the 757 but he really did drop some ovious hints.
Dave
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: Terra, And William

Tue Oct 05, 1999 12:49 pm

UPS 's IPO is going public late this month, the whole reason behind going public (something that has never been done in the 92 year company history) is to generate large cash flow to make aquisitions in the International Market. This is fact. TNT or DHL are RUMOURED to be the one to be aquired. The reason being is to compete on a level playing field with the German Deutche Post. TNT is a subsidiary of a publicly held company so the salesman needs to get his fact straight. Here is the fact of TNT right from the website "TNT incorporates the activities of the following former brands: TNT Express Worldwide, TNT Ltd., Mailfast, InterPost, Caxton, PPIC and TNT Logistics. TNT is a subsidiary TNT Post Group (TPG), a publicly listed company, headquartered in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, employing 100,000 employees in over 200 countries and had sales of NLG 15.2 Billion in 1997."
This is just strong rumours right now but the whole purpose of the IPO is to make aquisitions Internationaly to expand the business.
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Terra, And William

Tue Oct 05, 1999 11:31 pm

Just to let you all know, the 757s have already been sold to DHL. An announcement for hte 717 order should be coming soon. As for the poster who stated taht the are 757s are old and smell bad and the pilots wanting to fly the A320 you should try stand up comedy. Very funny and WRONG indeed.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

So What Will The Order Be?

Wed Oct 06, 1999 4:12 am

Hi all

With the 757's going to Boeing/DHL, what will BA's order be?

Could it be the 717?

I like Airbus, but must say that a 717 in Union Flag colours would look good.

Anyone else agree?

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland (Future BA 717 destination?  )
 
kaitak
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RE: So What Will The Order Be?

Wed Oct 06, 1999 4:19 am

717s have been rumoured quite strongly, but I personally think this would be a retrograde step for the airline. After all, it has already ordered 319s and 320s (and 321s will probably get a look-in at some stage), so why would they opt for a considerably older design, with no commonality? It just doesn't make sense. The 717 may be considerably modernised, but it is still a DC9, with a DC9's fuselage cross-section - considerably narrower than the 321. This means that in a Club configuration (and this is the market they're after), they lose one seat in every row. Maybe some might say four abreast is better than 5, but it's still lost revenue.
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: So What Will The Order Be?

Wed Oct 06, 1999 6:33 am

The 717 is more than likely the winner of this order. British Airways is simple choosing the right tool for the job. The 717 is super efficient, weighs less than the A318, doesn't need commonality because there will be over 50 of them when it is done, and also is better suited due to its wing design for short hauls. Good luck to BA and the 717.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: BA 757s Going To DHL

Wed Oct 06, 1999 7:19 am

I have come across more information regarding the 757. The MAJORITY of the 757s will be leaving the fleet by 2003 but about 10-15 will stay on (most likely the newest) to serve routes that only the 757 can do. Hesitance here to order A321s!
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

CX747 Read

Wed Oct 06, 1999 7:40 am

I get my info from the top. The person that said that the BA 757 are old and smell is a pilot who flies them. That is a pretty reliable source don't you think!!! I am sure he has been on more of the BA 757 then you have and gets info on why the are being sold. And about the 320 lots of people want to fly it, it is agreat airplane and very well made. That why more airlines are buying them and not the 737's! Also the news paper reported that BA was looking at the 717 BA has not said anything and the pilots do not even know what it is!! I doubt that they will. BA has ordered 150 320's why would they do that when the 717 was avilable then. You think Boeing is the best. But the are not that is why they are losing money. Airbus is building a better product and mor ereliable then Boeing! Dave
 
william
Posts: 1575
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UPS Pilot

Wed Oct 06, 1999 7:52 am

I know 10% of UPS is being offered in stock,heck,I wish I could get in on it,but doubt it. I specifically asked the TNT saleman about this,since I heard a month ago about UPS trying to aquire DHL(they have FAR more experience in the international shipping area). Again,it was stated that the POs in Europe are deregulating and everyone scrambling to line up with the right partners. With that said,do you really think the German PO is going to let loose DHL,that already carries a considerable chunk of their mail? Do you honestly think the Dutch bank is going to let loose its grip on TNT? The reason why these POs bought whole or stakes in these companies were do battle with you guys,UPS and FEDEX.

You don't let wolf guard the hen house.
 
Navion
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Airbus Boy

Wed Oct 06, 1999 9:48 am

Airbus boy, you have posted yet another riduculous post.
1) Boeing has not lost money. Boeing has made money not only in it's military and space sectors, but also it's commercial aircraft lines (a lot of it this past year alone). This is information available everywhere. It would be nice to argue Boeing v. Airbus financially, but guess what, Airbus doesn't report figures because Airbus is not an actual standalone company.
2) Boeing planes don't smell. The people or cargo inside of them smell. If a BA 757 smells, then it's BA's fault and not the manufacturer.
3) The fact many of BA's pilots don't know what a 717 is doesn't mean much. I find most airline pilots are not up to speed on what is happening in the aerospace world and the airliner or aviation enthusiast is a rarity among airline pilots.
Airbus 318's have not yet been built. As a matter of fact, they haven't even yet gotten off of the drawing board. Once it is built and certified, it will be a good tool for a specific purpose.
The 717 weighs a lot less and has unbeatable costs for short haul operations. The 717 is a tool, that's it. If the tool works, then it works.
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

717s In Scotland.

Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:23 am

To answer a question asked above, the 717s (If thats the winning airframe) are to be based in Birmingham and Manchester I believe. They will be operated to Scotland though.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: Airbus Boy

Wed Oct 06, 1999 11:23 am

The Boeing 757's smell? MMM I do recall being on a A-320 and it smelled like fish REAL bad. Is that a Airbus thing? Yeah right!
Actually I was jumping a UAL flight from PAI to LAX and some fishermans catch must have been left in the cargo hold man was that ripe! BA's 75's smelling is a pretty bizarre reason.
I think they will go with the 717 just because it will keep Airbus honest when it comes to buying parts, or that next jet purchase.
Any maintenance personal here that can discuss how Airbus sells parts? From what our local inspector of Airworthiness for the FAA says it is pretty much a hook and grab with Airbus. They will offer a good price on the aircraft and nail you on the parts. Is this really the case?
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: UPS Pilot

Wed Oct 06, 1999 11:26 am

All I know is there will be alot of cash flying  
 
Guest

Navion

Wed Oct 06, 1999 11:34 am

I would like to hear about my other ridiculous posts.

1) Let me compare the boeing and Airbus short haul as this is what we are talking about Airbus has 2040 short haul to be made and Boeing has 1254. So you are telling me that Boeing is doing good. What a joke. Airbus used to sell so few airplanes and now the are beating boeing by so much in orders.

2) You need to learn to read. I said that BA 757 smell not Boeing airplanes smell. The reason the smell is as they are old!! Boy that required a lot of thinking.

3) I think if BA are going to go and order a plane and get there pilots to fly it I think that the pilots would be asked about it and know a lot about the plane before saying yeah I will fly it. Unlike some people in the forum.


And about the 318 that was a random comment. It had not even been discussed. BA have bought 150 airbus 320's. And you are telling me it will be cheaper to to get a new simulator train new pilots get ground crews and maintenance workers on those airplanes. You need to take a lesson in economics.
Also your comment about Birmingham and Manchester those are served mostly by the franchises that BA have. I think that BA keeps no airplanes there I know they fly all there crews into there to fly out.

You need to be a little less forward with your rude comments as you need to learn a lot about BA before you clown some one else!!
Dave
 
Guest

UPS Pilot

Wed Oct 06, 1999 11:47 am

I was told this by a BA pilot I asked him why are they selling there 757 he said they are getting old and smelly. I never said that the 757 smells Navion read wanted he wanted to read to create conflict.
 
UPS Pilot
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

Airbus Boy

Wed Oct 06, 1999 1:31 pm

I hope you didn't take offense to my post. I should have read more into it! Sorry
 
Navion
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Airbus Boy

Thu Oct 07, 1999 2:10 am

Okay Airbus boy, it's clear I don't care for your less than stellar people skills but moreover, your posts are convoluted logic. LETS TALK ECONOMICS. If BA picks the 717, then it was a better economic deal. If BA picks an Airbus product such as the A318 (which I alluded to in my post as it is the LOGICAL counterpart to the 717) then Airbus is the better deal. The cost of a simulator is just one cost. There is a preponderance of information regarding training and fleet costs being nullified when you order the number of 717's BA is discussing buying. 717's weigh THOUSANDS OF POUNDS LESS THAN THE COMPETING AIRBUS PRODUCT. THIS RESULTS IN SIGINIFICANTLY HIGHER OPERATING COSTS. You want to talk economics, lets talk about the cost of multiple cycles daily over the course of years and what that costs. Regarding my economics background, I have a degree in Finance from the University of Florida (which included 6 separate economics courses, 3 statistics courses, 2 business analysis courses) and I took 2 different tax classes in Law School. I run 2 separate business which gross over $4 million dollars a year. Now, since we are in a pissing contest on who knows what about economics, show me what you've got. The total picture is what matters. It's called the net difference in the 2 plans. I think BA knows what they're doing, now lets see what you know.
Harvey
 
wingman
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Navion

Thu Oct 07, 1999 4:49 am

Navion,

I sometimes lose my cool dealing with morons as well, but after reading his stupefying posts I have to say that Airbus Boy can't be a day older than six with the mentality of a rabbit. I think this pissing match is all yours.
 
Navion
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Wingman

Thu Oct 07, 1999 5:27 am

Well put Wingman. I was starting to think I was crazy. This guy (Airbus Boy) puts people down with his condescending tone, casts aspersions (such as Boeing losing money), and then acts like I'm a troublemaker when I call him on it. His point of saying BA's 757's were smelly was not just a passing comment but in fact, when taken in the context of the whole post, was a Boeing put down just like most of what he says (A320 family good, Boeing 737NG bad, Airbus outselling Boeing etc..... His name says it all. I have nothing against Airbus products (I think they are really good and I love the A319 & A318 designs), I am not a pro-Boeing schill (even though I think I come across as one) and all I want to do is stand up for Boeing or Airbus when I think they are being unfairly slandered. I still think Airbus Boy is remarkably rude and terse in his postings and cannot be told or taught otherwise. Finally, I think the new BA A319 looks absolutely great. Nonetheless, I would love to see 717's in BA's livery to break the monotony of 150 (eventually) A320 class airliners. BA's new livery (in my opinion is really attractive).
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

Back To The Topic Please!

Thu Oct 07, 1999 6:53 am

Hi all

Let's all get back to the topic that was originally posted. It was going well until the squabbling started.

Remember the rules....or Johan will ban you!

I've flown on BA's 757 a few times, but that was back in the '80's when they were new to the fleet.

I would like to keep track of G-BIKH, G-BIKF and G-BIKU as these are the ones I flew on. If these are the ones to be "Exported" It would be nice to see what happens to them, especially if they got to the USA.

Regards to all
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Back To The Topic Please!

Thu Oct 07, 1999 8:04 am

I think the one thing being overlooked in all this is BA choosing the right equipment for the job. While CCQ may save you money it doesn't mean that it will earn you money. I would rather have a better aircraft that brings in more money than a weaker aircraft that doesn't. Ordering a plane just because it has the same cockpit does not bring in money. While everyone seems to think the the A318 is the better option, lets see what British Airways decides.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
wingman
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Back To The Topic Please!

Thu Oct 07, 1999 9:10 am

All right. BA is losing money right now due to over capacity. They need planes they can fill to the rafters with business travelers that are low cost to operate. Generating revenue is the bottom line. In this scenario, the 717 makes sense. The deal also fits squarely with Boeing moves to offer buy backs to carriers, something Airbus now says it will do as well. (Remember the statement they made after the SQ deal.) Yesterday Boeing announced a reorganization of its Capital Services unit, a move intended to position the company in the leasing, retrofitting , and servicing businesses. This will be a difficult balancing act, one that Airbus says it will not get into. The market is estimated at $400 billion per annum and generates enormous profits for players such as Pegasus, ILFC, and Boullion(sp?). The actual sale of new aircraft will contunue to have diminishing returns over time as Boeing and Airbus slash prices to the bone to gain orders. So entering new markets is the only solution. Airbus will learn this quickly when they become a public corporation and are forced to pay taxes, shareholders, and open the books to public accountants. It is now too easy for them to hide any losses they may have and since they never talk about it, I must assume they are losing money. If you make money, you say it. If you lose money, you don't like to talk about it. My personal opinion is that BA will choose the 717 as a sign of faith with Boeing over the DHL deal, because it is a good solution to the problem, and because RR/BMW are exerting pressure on them for the purchase.

Like Navion, I have no problem with Airbus products. I fly them regularly and find them to be comfortable and quiet. They also smell great. My problem is with the way Airbus does business. It is protected from real competition by the French government, something the German and British governments are agaisnt, as is BAe and DASA. I respect Volkswagen when they beat Ford or GM for marketshare because they do it on their own. I will never respect Airbus the Consortium until they prove themselves under the same conditions.

 
william
Posts: 1575
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

757 Will Mean The Death Of The DC-8

Fri Oct 08, 1999 8:06 am

The last stomping ground for the vernable DC-8 is slowly giving way to 757s. We know all things must change,they call it progress. But it is still nice to see the old mid size 4 engines aircrafts take to the sky,instead of seeing them at museaums.

Wingman,eveyone has an opinion,and your opinion is valid. But Boeing has been competing with state aid companies for years and have come out on top. Its not where you get your money,or assistance from that counts. It is the product. Example, 777. You can bet that Airbus is undercutting the 777 price,yet see how many orders the 777 has garnered.

But thanks to stiff competition,we have aircraft such the 777. Its my opinion that Boeing success depends on its products and willingness to innovate,not whether Airbus goes private or not.

Again,Wingman,your opinion is valid,and doubtlessly is shared by many on this board.

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