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Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:58 am

There has been rumors lately that Usairways will use an A330 to fly from Philly to Hononlulu 2 or 3 times a week I believe. I think this is a great idea and I am confident those flights will be jam packed every time. I believe a lot of people from not just Philly but the surrounding areas would like to get to Hawaii non-stop from the East.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 6:03 am


I took US to Rome, Italy last fall on the A330.
And I just took American from Dallas to Honolulu.

Both are long flights- over eight hours, generally.

Having done both, I will personally GET ON MY KNEES AND BEG USAIR TO FLY TO HONOLULU.

The lavatory on the American 767-300 had no toilet paper, no paper towels. The service was... decent at best. The aircraft was dirty (the cabin, I should say).

The US 330 experience wasn't perfect, but AT LEAST they have the great IFE system and COMFORTABLE seats. The AA seats weren't terrible, but they were a bit firm in the lower back region.

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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 6:06 am

That would be a smart move. Hawaii is a conspicuous hole in their network. Does the A330-300 have the range for that flight though? Aer Lingus operated the A332 to LAX and not A333.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 6:06 am

I don't see US having any 330s free to do a trip to HNL. Of course this all depends on who they ally with. If it is UAL...they don't need to fly to HNL. They are also going to need the 330s to take over for the 767-200s that will be getting retired.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 7:56 am

Do you even will goes to try chance fly new routes nonstop from PHL,PIT, CLT-HNL flight as for Airbus A330/A340. Just please think about this one for US Airways. This is really need stepped up more passengers on the new routes nonstop by long-hauls flight. Do you even know this is way to do either take fly to HNL or OGG. Well, see ya!
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 8:01 am

Isn't pretty much everything West of the Mississippi a "conspicuous hole in their network"?
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 8:02 am

the westbound flight from philly to hnl might be too long for the A330 to do reliably in winter. Wouldn't they put a longer range 767 on the route, and use the A330 (that are 3 class, vs 2 class on the 767) for the europe routes.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 8:08 am

There is a rumor about US flying to HNL going around, but I heard that the route would be flown with 762s a few times a week......you may have noticed that US has added may resort destinations in the caribbean lately, flying to some of the islands with weekend only services. We may see the same to HNL - from what I can figure out, much has to do with making its frequent flyer programme more attractive in an effort to keep its business travellers happy. The potential of free trips to Hawaii and Aruba and other such places is an effort to keep businessmen and women on US Airways planes.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:43 am

Neither the A333 or B762 have the range capability for that route. FCO-PHL, for instance, is stretching it for BOTH equipment types. There have been instances, mostly on the west bound departures during summer, where it either took a weight restriction or added an involuntary tech stop from FCO. It happens more often than you would think, due to full capacity loads out of FCO.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 12:43 pm

John: The 767-200er with max payload (pax and cargo) can make PHL-HNL every time guaranteed, unless there were 75-100kt headwinds the entire way. Otherwise there would never be a problem. http://boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/767sec3.pdf. The 330-300X could make it with full pax if winds are normal but would as you said be weight restricted for cargo. In the winter months it may have a problem with just pax on some days. If they were to use the 333 to HNL it'd probably make more sense to fly it out of PIT just to shorten the route by a couple hundred miles and not have to worry about kicking passengers off because of restrictions. I work in flight safety at PIT and one of my boss's is a 762er Capt. and another guy I work with is a 333 F/O.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:32 pm

I think in theory, it would be nice to have nonstop service from the east coast to HNL. But given U financial position and the fact that alot of the pax that are going to HNL are using free ticket from FF miles, would it even be profitable. Just my opinion. Regards
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:41 pm

HNL flights are notoriously low yield. That's why few carriers have jumped on the East Coast-HNL bandwagon. If U does it, it will either be by codeshare or because they are desperate for even a pittance of yield that a 330 will generate on that route.TC
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:58 pm


I agree with AA717driver. There three main markets on which US Airways has focused since 1997: the Caribbean, the international and intercontinental flights.

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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:54 pm

The 762ER has no problem making PHL to HNL at all. That rte is well with in its range.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Fri Jul 19, 2002 7:04 am

This is only a rumour. I've head nothing of the sort. I'd love for it to happen though.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:16 am

This would prove as a fatal mistake for the all ready struggling USAirways. Considering they would probably look at HNL as they view FL as a seasonal market. Therefore it would be the biggest mistake that US could make.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:29 am

Generally low-yield routes (such as HNL) can only support older aircraft (since newer aircraft are only profitable on the higher yield business routes). Hence, the 762 is the more ideal choice than the 333.

PHL-HNL is easily handled by the 762. AC has flown YYZ-HNL with the 763 for years.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:29 pm

Interesting assessment considering that there are operators of new 767-300s A330s (charter operators), and newer 747-400s going into HNL, along with the 737-700s and -800s.

Just to point out that AA cost per seat mile on a 767 is something like 4 cents and they yield on average 8 cents a flight. The 757s do slightly better. US Airways has a lower cost per seat mile than AA does because, on average, they fly their A330s more per day. Also, it costs less for CO to run a 767-400 than a DC-10. UA Switched to a mix 767, 757, 777 fleet which operated at a lower cost than the older DC-10s. Therefore IMO, older aircraft are less likely to profitable on a low yield route.
--Based upon 2001 3Q Form 41 since most of the airlines operated their respective fleet types (with the one exception being the UA DC-10)

FF miles redemption is limited too. I know TW limited about 5% of its seats on Hawaii flights to FF miles, Students and Senior travel packs combined. It was about 9 seats on a 767. Sometimes booking at the max limit (something like 330 days) was not even enough time to get the student travel. The rest of the seats (200+) were sold at the higher fares and at travel agencies.

US would have problem just from the cost and travel time from the east coast. Most people would like to visit Hawaii and decide to go to Florida and Caribbean because it is cheaper and quicker. People lose almost 2 days off a vacation traveling to Hawaii from anywhere east of the Rockies. Including jet lag, why would anyone pick Hawaii over a closer, more affordable sunny destination.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:39 am

Because Hawaii is a much nicer destination that is worth the extra price. That's why so many people visit.
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Sat Jul 20, 2002 10:34 am

According to the Great Circle Mapper at http://gc.kls2.com

PHL-HNL is 4275 nm.

Range of A333 is 5600 nm

I understand the problems of headwind, but why would this limit the range by 1325 nm (almost 25%)?
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RE: Usairways To Honolulu

Sat Jul 20, 2002 12:47 pm

Range also takes into account other factors. Maximum range with a full payload on a day above 80 degrees might limit the amount of cargo and passengers. Bad weather on the west coast might add fuel in case of a mid-pacific diversion back to LAX or SFO or another alternate.

Hawaii is great, but for the most bang for the buck, I would tell people not to go to my home state but Mexico or somewhere else nearer to my current timezone (central US). If you like come den come cuz.

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