Topic Author
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

Future Of Air Canada

Wed Oct 06, 1999 6:02 am

As a frequent Star Alliance flyer including on Air Canada, I was wondering if any one has predictions on who will win the battle over Air Canada.....OneWorld/American or Star Alliance/United/Lufthansa?? has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
Posts: 2181
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Wed Oct 06, 1999 6:11 am

I hope UAL and Lufthansa. I believe they will offer more for shareholders.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Wed Oct 06, 1999 6:14 am

I have huge amounts of faith that United & Lufthansa & Bank Of Montreal WILL come through with a very decent offer for Air Canada. And after that, I'm hoping that they'll sell there shares to Air Canada, that way it will always be in Canada. I doubt the Onex offer will go through. If it does, I hope United starts flying routes within Canada. I much prefer Star Alliance. Either way laws will have to be changed to allow this and that will take time.
American B757
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 11:19 am

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Wed Oct 06, 1999 8:13 am

To tell you the truth, i hope none! As i was born in Montreal, i dont want my home town Airline to be eaten up by some other airline!
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 1999 8:15 am

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Wed Oct 06, 1999 12:50 pm

I'd like Air Canada to stay just the way they are... All Canadian. I'm an American with Canadian ties, and I'm pretty sure that most canadians would like to have something they can totally call their own. I'm sure UAL and Lufthansa have great ideas, but some things are better left alone (at least from my point of view).
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:01 pm

I'm afraid that unless UA and LH come up with a counter offer, shareholders mightgo with ONEX.

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Thu Oct 07, 1999 7:57 am

I think that you are leaving out the piont that Canadian is the one that is being saved. The reason the UAL and LH did this offer is to offset the shareholders deciding to go with the Onex bid. The only reason Bank of Montreal is in with the counter offer is that UAL and LH does not upset the 25% rule. With no doubt in my mind the cash coming from Bank of Montreal orginated as the Dueschmark and American dollar. I would like to see that Canadian doesn't go belly up.
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

Canadian Airlines

Thu Oct 07, 1999 8:08 am

Unless the government helps them out, they will go belly up. They probably will because all of there 44 737s are not Stage III, (I Think).
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 1999 8:15 am

RE: Canadian Airlines

Thu Oct 07, 1999 8:15 am

I'd like to see Canadian stay around, I think they'd be a good second choice if I couldn't get an Air Canada flight. I remember flying on their old 737-200's when I was younger. I got tired of flying on the same old plane. :-)
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of Air Canada

Thu Oct 07, 1999 8:56 am

As nice as the ONEX deal is (soon to be was), I think that UA/LH will win the bidding. Both of those companies (in addition to Bank of Montreal) need AC desperately (look up the figs. on yahoo business) to complete the Star Alliance. If the deal does go through, I think that it would be great of UA and LH to sell their "new AC" shares back to the "new AC", making it a completely Canadian-held airline! Go Canucks!

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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 9:52 am

Canadian 732

Thu Oct 07, 1999 9:04 am

I still think Canadian (ex-CP Air) should have converted their 732 to newer 737 when they had the chance. I mean CP Air had the 733 in their fleet for a while but decided to have an all 732 fleet.

Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:47 am

RE: Canadian Airlines

Thu Oct 07, 1999 9:37 am

Canadian's 737s have been ungoing hushkitting over the past two years (or so), and the whole fleet will be done.
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Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: Canadian Airlines

Thu Oct 07, 1999 10:47 am

I wonder where they got the money for that.
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Canadian Airlines

Thu Oct 07, 1999 11:25 am

According to Canadian Airlines annual information form, 17 B737-200 aircraft had been hushkitted during 1998, and a further 13 hushkits were to have been fitted by December 31, 1999. Under Canadian Legislation, all remaining aircraft must have hushkits installed no later than April 1, 2002.

It also notes that because they are below the weight thresholds, all aircraft in the Canadian Regional Airlines fleet are exempt from Canadian and US noise regulations. And as far as I'm concerned those F28's that Regional flies are noisier than the 732's, at least they seem to be when they fly over.

As far as the future of AC, well, the Onex plan didn't give AC shareholders very much, and I don't think they would approve it. However, I think there was a lot of speculation, and alot of people would be very disappointed if they didn't have another bidder pay them alot of money for their stock. If you're interested there's a site with alot of information, especially all the related newpaper and editorial links for this at

As far as AC goes, or the industry as a whole, I think getting rid of or reorganizing (ie-bankrupcy protection) the weak Canadian would be the best way to revitalize it. Being from Calgary, I know some CP employees, and it would be a shame, but I think the best way to make everything more secure would be to either have a new start up or a CP reorganization that sheds some of the debt and reorganizes the fleet and routings more efficiently.

As far as competition, the end of Canadian would be ideal for creating new competitors. Unlike in a merger, it would create a lack of capacity, a surplus of skilled workers, and host of facilities and equipment ready to start up a new carrier. That would be an environment to create a new airline in. But politically its unacceptable, and of course it would be very sad to see CP go. I hope in the end both AC and CP manage to survive as independant carriers. But perhaps like the employees at Eaton's, after bankrupcy a new company would save some of the jobs that were lost.

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