flyboy80
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:54 am

hello all, i know all the stuff about the 777 thats so great but i want someone to set me straight on the technical specs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The engines for example, are do they have any special features unique to them sleves besides size and power?? What about wings and control surfaces? What makes them more special then any other wing? BTW DONT MENTION FLY BY WIRE!!!!!!!!!!! LoL!!!!!!!!!
Bri
 
CMK10
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:56 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:55 am

If you ask me, if your in coach on an airline with 2-5-2 seating (like AA) other then the less noise its no different then a DC-10.
DC-10's Forever
"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:59 am

in my opinion it is just like the DC-10 and i really like the 10's but it is new and the ptv's the space in first,business,and coach.
it is truly an awesome plane.at least the UNITED 777's.i have yet to fly on any other carriers 777's




ual 777 contrail
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:00 am

It's Fly-by-wire!! Oh wait, you said don't mention fly-by-wire! LOL  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

It think it's because of a couple reasons. The wing is supercritical and one of the most advanced by Boeing. But one of the biggest is that Boeing had an about face on listening to the customer about a new product. Whatever input customers had, Boeing listened. Instead of thier old philosophy of, make it how we think it should be and the customer will like it whether they want to or not. The interior was somewhat "revolutionary" at the time. And it is just one awesome aircraft.

So, I don't think it's the airplane itself that is so attractive, it's the way it was developed. Just my two cents.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:07 am

All newer wing designs have supercritical airfoil cross section. That's not a reason why the B777 is special.

To make a long story short, the B777 is an efficient design that offers lower operating cost than the competition. The B777 wing is a much cleaner design, because the competition has a wing that needs to accommodate both a twin and quad configuration.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:45 am

alright well see EXPLAIN please! Like WHAT about the wing make sit cleaner?? and what keeps the cost lower???????????????? when you say lower are we talking 1% seat permile lower then say an MD11 (example only you can compare to whatever aircraft you like) or 50%??? thanks im being kind of tough on this one but you guys are doin good LoL!!!!!!!!!!!
 
desertjets
Posts: 7574
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:54 am

From my point-of-view, a lot of the 777 greatness (as a design) in its simplicity and a few details.

First of all the wing is pretty impressive. It both a high lift wing and a high speed wing, a combination of traits that really hasn't been possible till recently. It manages to offer impressive lift capabilities with simplier double-slotted flaps. As a comparison the older 747 uses tripple-slotted flaps. Plus the wing does not require winglets or a fancy wingtip to optimize performance. Plus looking at it from a side-view, the wing has a very elegant curve to it.

The engines. Prior to the development of the 777, nothing was putting out much more than 65,000 pounds of thrust. The size and the power of the engines are something that is unique to the 777. The technology that went into them has clearly trickled down to new engine designs that are flying on the newer Boeing and Airbus designs, like the JP 7000 engine that will be on the A380.

The cabin. Boeing spent a good deal of time designing a cabin that would maximize interior volume. Not only are the curvy overhead bins pretty, they are very space efficient.

Working together. This is probably the most impressive part about the 777's design. The customers had an unheard of level of input in the final design. It is a practice that has worked so well, that it would seem odd not to continue this practice.

Computer designed. The 777 was the first commercial aircraft to be completely designed in an electronic environment. Seems ho hum by 2002 standards... but think back to the early 90's and how all planes before it were designed.

Simplicity. Ever notice that the 777's cross section is a perfect circle. That creates for a more efficient design.


I hope this helps you understand.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:59 am

How can you possibly say that inside it is like the DC-10?

The 777 interior is more spacious that pretty much any other plane due to is redesigned overheads, lighting...etc.

Fantastic plane

Jeremy
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:10 pm

yeah but if you go inside the engines whats different about these engines, what makes these engines more fuel efficaint?????????????????
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:26 pm

Well I wouldn't say it's special but it's a wonderful twin-jet. It's 2 large and efficient engines allow it to fly as long as 16 hours (and it's a twin-jet) with a relatively high MTOW (656,000), it's got good fuel burn figures. It flies at Mach.84, quite a feat for a twin. It's got a great cabin for comfort, it's very much technologically advanced. You almost can't find any fault out of it.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
737doctor
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:01 pm

Try this post on the Tech/Ops forum and see what responses you get...
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
brianhames
Posts: 743
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2000 2:22 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:14 pm

The 777 is the first Boeing airplane to maintain a completly circular fuselage, therefore maximizing cabin space.

ANA 777s are awesome, recently flew to Tokyo and back from San Francisco in First Class, oh yeah.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 6:48 pm

I have already explained why the B777 wing is cleaner. It is designed for a twin, unlike its competition which is designed for both a twin and quad. Since it has an aerodynamically superior wing, an engine that's a few years more advanced than the ones used on the A330/340, and twins are generally cheaper to operate than quads, that's why the B777 generally has lower unit operating cost.
 
Leo
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:32 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 8:17 pm

This is what all the fuss is about............................


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Walter Pietsch
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary Watt
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Toby Willis



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Garry Lewis
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Craig Murray



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin K. Work
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hiromichi Miyagaki
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Edward Lai



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Craig Murray
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Walter Pietsch



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Chandler
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jazon Alves



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jazon Alves



...it's clear is it not....
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Specia

Sun Jul 21, 2002 8:19 pm

If the 777 would be cheaper to operate in gerneral, why would Airbus have sold ONE A330/A340? Neither of them has lower operating costs. It depends on so many factors that you simply cannot say this.

The 777 is a modern airliner, including the lastest wing, engine, design (full computerized) and control (full fly-by-wire) technology available, keeping both operational cost and maintenance workload down. She also offers a family of products, from mid-ranges to ultra-long hauls and different fuselage sizes. The fuselage has sufficient cargo capacity and offers a quiet and spacious cabin.

The 777 is a truly awesome aircraft. So are her competitors.

SailorOrion
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8007
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:15 pm

I think in a few years the 777-300ER could become a quite popular plane, mostly because it is a true successor to the 747 Classics.  Smile
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:33 pm

besides all the technical beauty, i think its also because its boeings first completely new design since 1982, when the B767 went into service.

but let me add a critical comment on the fuselage diametre. if you think of a fuselage being designed to pack pax and cargo in the most efficient way, the 777 fuse ist a bit too large. if you put in two ld3 containers, a lot of space is wasted. the a330 packs the containers most efficiently. however, the 330 has more headroom.

r.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1012
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

Err

Sun Jul 21, 2002 10:40 pm

of course, the 777 has more headroom.

im sorry, r.
 
acidradio
Crew
Posts: 1595
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:17 pm

Lower operating costs are a relative term, which can be applied between any airline operators. If an airline is an all Airbus shop, then that would be a factor that would perhaps influence the decision to buy A330/A340s. If an airline is already a 767 shop (not necessarily a like comparison), it could make more sense in that manner to go with the 777. Depends on the kinds of routes and services that an airline provides. And all these costs can offset somewhere else. A 777 could be cheaper to run than an A330, but 330s don't have the big long ETOPS certifications that a 777 can get, which is really important to trans-Pacific operators. If the airline is an already Airbus shop though, it could be more economical to stay with the 330/340 series in order to reap the benefits of a larger sales relationship with Airbus, common parts/tooling/maintenance procedures, common cockpits, etc. What makes an airplane profitable to a particular operator is a lot more than just how much gas it drinks...
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:37 pm

The B742 is a lot more expensive to operate than the B744. Does it mean the B742 should disappear from airline operations the day the B744 entered into service? Of course not. When one has committed financially to an aircraft type, it is often too hard to change one's direction. Also, operation cost is not everything. For example, the A330/340 is cheaper to acquire. So airlines have to decide between low capital cost/high operational cost vs high capital cost/low operational cost. In addition, the B772 is larger than the A333/343. Larger capacity means more revenue opportunities, but it adds to one's cost base if one cannot fill the planes. In short, lower unit operating cost does not mean that the B777 will get the whole market. The B772A/ER is an econmically and technically superior aircraft. That's why Airbus has netted fewer than 250 A333/343s since the B777 launch. During the same period, the B772A/ER has logged about 500 sales.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Mon Jul 22, 2002 12:53 am

Your statement is true. But it's largely skewed by fewer airlines buying a large amount of aircraft.

On an airline by airline competition...more have chosen the 330/340.

I'm a big fan of both birds.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:24 am

ALRIGHT DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE ENGINES HAVE ANYTHING SPECIAL IN THEM OR WORK IN ANY WAY DIFFERENTLY THEN OTHER ENGINES THAT MIGHT MAKE THEM SPECIAL? So does the three engine son the MD-11 cost more to operate then the two on the 777? I guess im anxios to get behind the engines i dont know much about them exept the basics i want to see what makes them more efficant in fuel burn or what makes them QUIETER?
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Mon Jul 22, 2002 3:37 am

Greg:

The basis of your argument is not solid. Larger carriers are actually more sensitive to opearting cost. A couple of percent difference of a large fleet means a large amount of money saved or spent. Because of the overhead cost, impact of a lower operating cost aircraft would be relatively smaller for a small fleet. That's why more large carriers are shunning away from the A333/343. That's why Airbus has to concentrate on smaller carriers. If the A343 were a more cost effective solution, there would be a lot more airlines ordering large fleet of A333/343 instead of the B772A/ER. Mind you, we are talking about an industry that a tenth of a percent can means profit or loss. The cost advantage that the B777 has is not astounding, but it's enough to have swung many major decisions in their favor.

Flyboy80:

Yes, it's cheaper to maintain two engines on the B777 than three engines on the MD-11. The questions you asked cannot be answered in a few lines. You can post it in the Tech/Op forum. I'm sure someone will be glad to answer your questions.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7574
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:22 am

Flyboy80.... hold on a second.

Let me clarify my comments about the engines.

SIZE matters completely. Prior to the 777 large high-bypass engines were maxing out at around the 65,000 lb thrust range and had main fan diameters of around 90". In order to get the power the 777 needed, here were are talking about 77,000-100,000+ lbs of thrust the engines needed to be something special (don't take that literally). First of all they are all large... 120"+ fan diameter. These engines were significantly bigger than anything GE, PW or RR had built before. Requiring in large part major redesigns of older engines (in the case of RR and PW) or a cleanslate design, which the GE90 essentially was. Because everything is bigger that presents manufactering and engineering challenges. How do you make the main fan out of titanium or composites when it is so big. Likewise for the internal bits as well. Plus weight is an issue... how do you make something that is considerably bigger than anything else, and keep its weight down. Even though, say a GE90-92 produces 40% more power than a GE CF6-80 it doesn't burn 40% more fuel. Bear in mind this is not 100% factual, but it should serve as a basis of why the 777 is so impressive. And more importantly how the technologies that it pioneered have began to show up in other new designs.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:49 am

THANK YOU DESERT JETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
iM STILL INTERESTED IN EVERYONE ELSES POINT OF VIEW AND I WILL POST THIS SOON IN TECH/OPS THANKS!!!!
 
Mr.BA
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 1:55 am

It's got a maintenance panel in the cockpit making the job easier for everyone.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:39 am

My argument holds.
Fact:
There are more customers for the A330/340 than there are for the 777. That is the only point I was making.
Clearly if the 777 was so superior in economics then man more carriers would have chosen it regardless of fleet commonality instead of only the handful that did.
I don't think Air France, Lufthansa or Iberia would classify as small carriers.
Or is that argument flawed as well?
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:54 am

Well, here are some reasons there is a big fuss about the 777:

Air China
Air France
Alitalia
All Nippon
Asiana
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
China Southern
Continental
Delta
EgyptAir
Emirates
El Al
Eva Air
Garuda Indonesia
Japan Air Systems
Japan Airlines
Kenya Airlines
KLM
Korean Air
Kuwait Airways
Lauda Air
Malaysian Airlines
Saudi Arabian Airlines
Singapore Airlines
Thai
United Airlines
Varig
Vietnam Airlines

The list reads like a "who's-who" of international carriers, and they all fly (or have ordered) the 777. Air Canada, Northwest, Lufthansa, Qantas, South African Airlines, Virgin Atlantic, and Air New Zealand are the only "major" international carriers that I can think of that have not chosen the 777. (most of these carriers have decided to go with the 744 and/or the 744/A340 combo for high-capacity long-hauls).
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:55 am

The B777 is very special because it is the only totally new US airliner which has been introduced into service during the last twenty years. And in ten years time it may easily still be the only one during thirty years!

When we estimate the development phase of a totally new design to five years, then we can assume that the B777 is the only US made airliner which hasn't inherited technology which is more than 25 years old.

The B777 is the first and only US made FBW airliner.

Let us count the number of totally new western large airliner designs initiated during the last 25 years: The result is ZERO!

In fifty years from now, in year 2052, when the youngest a.net user today is about to retire, then many B777s will still be around, at least as cargo conversions, and the B767 on the other hand will have passed into history as the very last western designed non-FBW airliner.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
CF-CPI
Posts: 1323
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2000 12:54 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 3:09 am

A couple of things:

Lufthansa and Air France are the flag carriers of the nations with the largest stake in Airbus. I'm not accusing anyone of sleazy tactics or bribery, but I'm sure it helped push them towards the Airbus offering.

Wasn't the A340/330 series offered earlier than the 777? My memory is hazy but I think Boeing waited a few years before countering with the 777 offering, and there was a 2 to 2.5 year difference in service entry dates. Carriers who wanted non-747 longhaulers in the early 90s timeframe chose between the A340/330 and the MD-11. And we know who won THAT one  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (no offence to MD-11 fans, I like it too).

The 777 has a greater payload than the A330/40 but it sounds like there are market situations in which the extra lift is not necessary. It seems as if NW took a sincere look at both the 777 and the A330 as a DC-10 replacement on the North Atlantic and concluded that the Airbus offered the best cost for the loads they expected, reducing the chance of 'eating' seats, as I believe on a per-plane basis the A330 has lower operating costs (would make sense anyhow). There was a post here a few months ago which offered a link explaining NW's rationale -- worth a look (sorry, don't have the link on hand).

 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 3:12 am

NWA was a launch customer for the 330 and would have to pay penalties if they cancelled in favor of the 777. Airbus sweetened the deal for NWA as well. I asked the same question about two weeks ago.
 
LMP737
Posts: 4852
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 3:56 am

Flyboy80:

Instead of me giving you a history and technical aspects of the 777 try going to your local Borders and Barnes&Noble. Try finding Boeing 777 by Norris and Wagner or 21 First Century Jet. Both provide a lot of info on the 777.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:23 am

Greg:

Lufthansa, Iberia, and Air France chose the A340 before the B777 was available. Air France, moreover, has purchased more B777s than A340s in recent years. Cathay Pacific is the only airline with a large fleet of the A340 that chose the A340 after the B777 was available. But they already had a sizable fleet of the A330 when they ordered the A340. Also, Cathay is a conservative airline who is relunctant to commit to extensive ETOPS.

When one has more cheaply available second-hand A340s on the market, one bounds to pick up a lot of small customers. A number of smaller carriers pick up the A340 from leasing firms, because they are more readily available and they don't require a lot of up-front capital investment.

Mind you, how much revenue Airbus or Boeing generates by selling aircraft is strictly dependent on the number of aircraft sold, not the number of airline customers one has.
 
keesje
Posts: 8854
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:28 am

It is the best (most efficient) long haul 320 seater

just like A332 appears to be the best long haul 250 seater I guess ...

Cabins very nice (space), big bins

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:37 am

Dyn....
I concurr. More sales==more profit (hopefully). Airbus however, has a VERY strong tool in that all their products share a common cockpit qualification (for the most part). Most carriers that order one product WILL order another. I think we have a twenty year history of that. It's one of Boeing's bigger mistakes which I'm sure will be rectified on their next generation transports.

The MD-11, A330/340 and 777 while all not available at the same time, were all far enough along for airlines to make their decisions. That argument doesn't hold.

It's a testament to great design that the third aircraft flying is the one with the highest sales. Although I imagine the 777-300 will not see this same success.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:41 am

Nothing. Its not special in any way, its just another ordinary generic airliner.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:05 am

EGGD:

Your statement by itself is not wrong. But knowing your preferece, would you say the same thing for the A340? I kinda doubt you would.  Wink/being sarcastic

Greg:

The B773 doesn't have enough range to be a big seller, but he B773ER will be. Just mark my word.
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:23 am

If there is a market for a 400 pax twin...why isn't AI building one? Or does the A330 just not lend itself to a further stretch?
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:34 am

I think a 400 pax twin would conflict with the Airbus philosophy. I don't what their threshold is but above some seating capacity, Airbus goes for quads. Boeing has been the advocate of the twinjet.

The 773ER has a healthy backlog and I read comments from some exec at Emirates that indicated that they really liked the airplane. Given the size of their recent orders, that is a positive sign for Boeing.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:19 am

Airbus definitely thinks there is a market for a 350+ pax aircraft. That's why Airbus has the A346. Why did they go with a quad instead of a twin? They had to do the ultra long range A345 with four engines, then it's more cost effective for them to develop a larger companion for the A345 with four engines, too. I don't think Airbus will ever design a quad and a twin with the same wing again. It sounded like a good idea when they launched the A330/340, but it didn't turn out to be as good an idea as they thought it would be.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:52 am

Dynkrisolo, I think you are right. It probably all boils down to ETOPS.

When the 330/340 family was launched, then hardly anybody was dreaming about ETOPS, or at least no more than ETOPS-120.

Today with ETOPS-180, even 217, and maybe soon 240 the world has totally changed, and the advantage of a quad has been reduced significantly.

But! If this world ever experiences some serious ETOPS related incidents, and it hits the press during a "silly period" like at present, then...!!!

It doesn't need to be more than a trivial diversion to a technically perfect airport with totally insufficient accommodation facilities for 3-400 pax.

A few such incidents might make Seattle cry while at the same time make EADS shareholders laugh all way to the bank. Hopefully it never happens.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:08 am

Simply put the 777 is like the 737ng it meets the airlines' need for that size aircraft perfectly.

Will luv to see a 772 in BWIA colours have tolive with the 340 for now but have the 738s for know
Eagles Soar!
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:38 pm

I have heard that ETOPS twin aircraft have lower diversion rates than trijets or quads. The simplest explanation is that with two engines you have fewer possible points of potential failure. The other explanation is that ETOPS procedures have led to higher reliability.
 
cx340
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2000 2:59 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:57 am

Well, I don't know what makes the 777 so special, but all I can tell you is that my Uncle, who is a 777 captain for Singapore Airlines and who has flown many types of aircraft during his carreer, just told me yesterday that he never wants to fly another type in his life and he wants to retire flying the 777. . .
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1827
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:59 am

someone do me a favor and put this is Tech/Ops for me !!!!!!!!!!! thx
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:00 am

The A340 is nothing special either, whats your point?
 
LMP737
Posts: 4852
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:14 am

The 777 was the first widebody twin to have ETOPS certification "out of the box". Prior widebody twins had to prove their reliability in airline service before they were authorized for ETOPS flights. When the first 777 was delivered to UAL it was already cleared for ETOPS flights. That meant the airline could start making money with it on international routes right away.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: 777, Whats The Fuss About, Why Is It So Special?

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:07 am

And getting the 777 ETOPS out of the box raised standards - it didn't lower them. Boeing achieved this by pounding the test planes into the ground -
testing them for thousands of cycles in realistic environments. It was given more testing by far than any other passenger jet before entering service.

This not only convinced the JAA/FAA to grant early ETOPS, it also made the airliner allot more reliable when first introduced than others before it were. Another reason this was necessary is because transporting a 777 size engine to a repair site is a big pain (as discussed in other threads). Also, there is a huge schedule disruption when mechanical problems ground aircraft serving long-haul routes where the 777 is typically employed. Perhaps others may enlighten me - am I right to guess that nowadays ETOPS regulations in the 777 are followed as much for economic as for safety reasons?

Who is online