DCA-ROCguy
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US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:59 am

Dear Gang,

The Rochester Democrat & Chronicle reported a couple of days ago that US Airways is ending its three daily US Express Jetstream 41's from ROC to BWI on Sept. 8. Monroe County is negotiating with AirTran to begin a third daily flight on the route, to replace the lost US capacity. Airport manager Slaybaugh is "optimistic" that AirTran will add the flight. AirTran didn't return the paper's calls for comment, which suggests to me that something is underway.

Here's the link to the story:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/biznews/forprint/0720story3_business.shtml

It seems to me that AirTran may have a promising future in Rochester. Their starter loads, around 67 percent the first month, were well above average for a new carrier. All the AirTran flights I've flown on ROC-BWI have been 90 percent or more full. I think ROC-BOS could be a promising AirTran route, since it's badly underserved, with only 4 daily US Express ERJ-145's.

In the lower-fare 1980s, the route supported several daily mainline US flights *plus* three or four Empire Airlines Fokker 70's. I don't buy for a minute that all ROC-BOS can support is 200 seats. At reasonable fares, like AirTran would offer, the route could probably easily support 2, maybe 3, daily 717's.

If Southwest enters ROC (which I think likely after US goes under), AirTran would still be all right, I think. They'd probably exit ROC-BWI since WN would probably offer 6-7 flights per day on the route. However, 2 daily ATL + 1 MCO, + 2 daily BOS if they enter that market, would leave FL with 5 dailies at ROC. That's still a respectable market share. A third ATL daily is even possible, since some BWI traffic is transfer, and one flight continues on to ATL.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:04 am

How much subsidy/pledged business travel did AirTran get to start ROC service? Or is this a market where they can actually make it without subsidy (I'm sure ROC's traffic load is that much, but AirTran still likes to ask for subsidies...)
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:27 am

According to Aviation Week, Rochester isn't one of the cities that has a formal travel bank, I had thought that it did have one. But AirTran did get pledges of certain amounts of use from various businesses; Kodak, Rochester's largest employer, pledged several million dollars per year on the route. Also, the county gave a 50 percent discount on gate rental and landing fees for the first year.

One thing that probably helps AirTran is the fact that US Airways did not restore 3 daily 733's on DCA-ROC after DCA reopened. US runs 3 daily DH8's. UA runs 4 daily CRJ's on ROC-IAD, used to run 7 daily J31/41's and one 733 prioer to 9/11. UA and US can't charge high enough fares to fill their old capacity in the post-9/11 business environment. But the demand is still there, and AirTran seems to be the beneficiary. Fine with me, I'd rather pay $90-100 rt to fly a 717 than $250 rt to fly on a DeHavilland Dash 8.


Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:41 am

however, i think the airtran roc-mco flt is going to sat. only, correct me if i am wrong
 
Boiler Special
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:57 am

The flights are ending in part due to Trans States dropping a few 41s from the East Coast and sending them to the Midwest. Low fare competition probably has a bit to do with why these specific flights were dropped though.
 
Guest

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:38 pm

ROC-MCO is Saturday only during the slow season in Sept./Oct. It will be back to daily by Thanksgiving. The same is happening to CAK-MCO. I was reading on another board that the cutbacks have to do with 3 DC9s retiring the week of 9/5.
 
gr8slvrflt
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Tue Jul 23, 2002 11:11 pm

AirTran's website, under the destination map, now notes that Myrtle Beach is seasonal from April to August.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
deltairlines
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:06 am

I personally do not think that AirTran would enter ROC-BOS. I think some of the market has gone away, since neither Delta Connection or American Eagle operate this route (Eagle dropped BOS-ROC about a year ago if I remember), and these would be the logical airlines to be operating this route, since they both have large presences at BOS. In addition to that, driving from Boston to Rochester is about a 6-7 hour drive, which is not that bad.

Jeff
 
GD727
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:13 am

I know this is a bit off topic, but I am actually flying BOS-ROC on Us Airways Express at the end of August, anyone have any idea how full these flights get?

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:19 am

Correction: Empire flew F-28's, not Fokker 70's.
Next up: STL-CVG-MKE-MSP-STL.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:12 am

The pulling of ROC-BWI along with a bunch of other routes marks the final end of USAirway's BWI hub. All that will be left is just service to hubs and maybe a few long hauls.

As for ROC-BOS...I don't know. The route would rely solely on O+D and that's a lot tougher to make money on. US pretty much gave AAI the BWI route because US had been pulling down the BWI hub long before AAI ever entered the picture. For now, I think you'll have to enjoy the BWI and ATL service.
 
Guest

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:42 am

DCA-ROCguy: I believe AAI only has one gate in BOS, and that it is pretty much to capacity now with 10 dailies(7 -BWI, 3 -ATL). I wouldn't be shocked to see some more NE-BOS flights from ROC and/or PHL, especially if US has to give up some gates in BOS if and when it goes kaput
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:09 am

I personally do not think that AirTran would enter ROC-BOS. I think some of the market has gone away, since neither Delta Connection or American Eagle operate this route (Eagle dropped BOS-ROC about a year ago if I remember), and these would be the logical airlines to be operating this route, since they both have large presences at BOS. In addition to that, driving from Boston to Rochester is about a 6-7 hour drive, which is not that bad. Jeff

What do you mean, "the market has gone away?" The economies of both the Boston and Rochester areas grew in the 1990's. It stands to reason that something other than weak demand must explain a reduction in seat capacity on the route. I would argue that the fares are too high.

If AirTran started offering $200 rt walkups to BOS, they probably would have no trouble filling two or three daily 717's. Business people might not want to pay $500-$600 rt walkup fares, but I'll bet they'd ditch the 6-7 hour drive for a lower fare. And leisure people might also be won away from the Mass Pike with $90 rt 21-day advance fares. Low fare carriers create markets where the Cartel's high fares discourage them.

As for gate capacity, AirTran found a way to shoehorn in 7 dailies to BWI. I'm sure if they wanted to do it they'd find a way.

Jim

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:34 am

O/T
anyone know whats going on with airtran and philadelphia? Has airtran moved to terminal D yet and how many gates are they taking? Also for now will airtran basically just stick with 10 flts a day, or is there any possiblity of new flts or even discontinued flts?
 
Guest

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:50 pm

Jim: If FL were to add two dailies to ROC from BOS, they would basically get delayed beyond belief through much of the system just b/c BOS had a two hour delay for one of their aircraft. Southwest rarely has more than 11 flights/day from a gate, so having FL do 12 from just one gate at a very congested airport would just screw up their ontime record.

US85: I was at PHL Sunday before last, and FL was still in F.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Topic Author
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:59 pm

Jim: If FL were to add two dailies to ROC from BOS, they would basically get delayed beyond belief through much of the system just b/c BOS had a two hour delay for one of their aircraft. Southwest rarely has more than 11 flights/day from a gate, so having FL do 12 from just one gate at a very congested airport would just screw up their ontime record.

That raises a good question. AirTran flies into both LGA and BOS, two of the most congested airports in the country. How do these airports affect FL system wide? FL has been at both airports for years, clearly they seem to think that LGA and BOS don't tear up their ontime performance elsewhere. How do they do it?

Sounds like Massport needs to examine BOS's gate distribution. As mentioned above, US's bankruptcy will probably mix things up there.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:30 am

DCA-ROCguy,

I think the reason that AAI was able to push to make room for the BWI-BOS flights was because this route has a ton of traffic and is very profitable. I'm not sure if the same could be said for ROC-BOS.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: US Airways Ends ROC-BWI On 9/8

Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:41 am

A bit off-topic, but with reference to AirTran and gate space, AirTran has been learning a tough lesson about gates at MDW the last two months.

One gate plus fifteen flights plus one delay equals a nightmare - another reason the MDW-PIT flts are going b-bye. With ten flights a day to ATL, two to ICT, and three to PIT, there is a CONSTANT stream of aircraft waiting on the gate upon arrival....the MDW on-time performance has suffered, and it has been causing an impact system wide.

Three weeks ago Sunday, due to two maintenance delays at MDW, subsequent flights were delayed 2+ hrs...aircraft were parked at other airlines gates...quite a mess. I for one am happy to see the PIT-MDW flts go, for that reason alone. No new gates until at least next year.

Travis

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