ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:27 am

As reported by Aviation Daily on 7/18 (below are my words summarizing the article):

Delta just completed a three-month study with consultant McKinsey & Co. to determine the best way to deal with low-cost competition. The strategy is expected to be presented to the airline's board soon.

The report has no "magic bullet." But it does focus on fleet adjustments, fare changes and brand changes. Delta will keep Express but it will be a revised version.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
 
GD727
Posts: 899
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RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:29 am

What is wrong with the current Delta Express? I flew them a couple times and they were great.

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
AirT85
Posts: 1241
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 1999 12:36 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:37 am

When DL started Express, i believe it was to bypass the Atlanta hub from cities that could easily support nonstop service to Florida, as well as keep Southwest from stealing lots of market share on the NE to FLA routes. Now, we may see Delta refine Express into a "true" lowcost subsidiary, and turn it into what MetroJet was supposed to be and sortof what United Shuttle was. The difference is Delta and DLexpress arent saddled with USAirways HIGH operating costs like MetroJet was. Who knows i could be completely wrong but this is all i could think of when it comes to refining express.
Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
padcrasher
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RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:00 am

I hope you're right. A new DL express with newly hired B scale pilots and FAs, as well as contracted ramp personnel. New 738s with IFE as well. Get your costs down to JB's or WN's and DL will own Florida again. Maybe the pilots will go for this if it means additional jobs and/or saving their own jobs. Pay scales could be set to parity with JB,WN, and Airtrans.
 
FutureSQPilot
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:23 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:30 am

Could this possibly mean a change in product to something like say...that of JB? After flying DLX rustbucket 732s a few times I will always choose another airline in the future...who would fly DLX when they have the choice of JB or even WN?
 
AirT85
Posts: 1241
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RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:34 am

Maybe Delta will exercise their 737NG options and get some 737-700s (or even -800s if we want to get really optimistic hehe) for Delta Express. The 732s are not that old but they will have to go sometime, and what better time than now when you reorganize the operation?
Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5271
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:01 am

There's a big change coming to DLX and it will be interesting to see if it works.

I've seen quite a few rumors. Many point to a replacement of the 732 which is inadequate to take on WN's new 737's and JB's A320's. Possibly DL might order some new planes, but DL really wants to keep capital expenditures down. Also, this plan is supposed to go into effect this winter which is not enough time for new planes.

One possible story is to shift some of the 733's and maybe 757's into Express and then send the 732's back to regular mainline. Chautauqua also plays a role in builing up regional feed and frequencies in many SE markets...not the Northeast though.

Padcrasher, I think you're dreaming if you think the DL pilots are going to allow another B-scale operation in. It's not going to happen and no matter what DL does they will never have operating costs as low as JBLU and WN.

Whatever DL's new strategy is, they better hope it works, otherwise DL could find itself in a lot of trouble down the road.
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:46 am

Trouble down the road is exactly what I hope will convince the DL pilots that a buffer (ie DLX) is exactly what is needed between DL mainline and the low cost carriers. TW, U, and UA are three examples of airlines that have succumb to these forces already. After the other Majors have cannibalized their own WN, JB, and AAI will still be knocking on the door. The only way to match these guys is to get your labor costs down and productivity up. This is the reality I hope DL ALPA will eventually come around to see.
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:57 am

ORD: Please explain how "fleet adjustments, fare changes and brand changes" can be interpreted as an "attack on low-fare airlines." To me, it sounds much more like a case of a U.S. network airline waking up to the new realities of the domestic air travel market and announcing a plan to deal with it. It's far more a survival plan IMO than an attack -- if it is anything at all of the latter.
 
bucky707
Posts: 954
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:59 am

I am a Delta pilot, and speaking strictly for myself, I would accept an expanded DLX, with whatever kind of airplane they choose to put on it. Frankly, we need to get our costs more in line with the competition (JB,AirTran, SW) or we will die. I would agree to a DLX operation which gets paid the same as Southwest. Delta and all the majors need to change their whole way of operating. In the future, I don't think you can count on overcharging the business travelor to get most of you revenue. We need to get our fare and cost structure to a point where we can make money based on leisure flyers.

I will now stand by for other pilots to tell me how screwed up I am.
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1153
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 7:31 am

I have a problem with anyone that complains about the DLX -200s they are beautiful birds the ones i flew on were on par with any DL aircraft. They are not old ... NOT OLD NOT OLD NOT OLD... dl was one of the last customers for the -200... the last one i was on was built in 1986 i believe. Yes the equipment itself is dated, i could see a two class product or a single class leather seat product kind of like the DL shuttle or JetBlue opperating almost as a wholy owned subsidiary with b line pilots and crews. offer the pax an incentive to fly them over FL (as if just the fact that they are not FL isnt enough) the key is going to be INOVATIVENESS thats what WN FL JetBlue all have in common... DL is going to ahve to be INNOVATIVE... hell

BRING BACK MEALS on flights.. BOS-MCO is a long flight.. bring back meals... i know the cost involved in catering an a/c is high... but work it in...
 
GD727
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RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:22 am

I agree with Wilcharl, the DLX 732's are far from "rustbuckets", they may look old, but they are still sturdy, reliable aircraft. I would fly DLX over WN any day, WN dosen't have reserved seating, with DLX, you can call um up and reserve the seats you want. Call me crazy, but I think an aircraft is not necssicarily better because it is newer. I love those 732's


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-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
Thumper
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2001 2:12 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:54 am

I agree there is nothing wrong with Delta's 737-200's They are not that old! WN will find out shortly they are going to have to deal with there pilots contracts,and will start paying better money! JB and Airtran are new and have new fleets wait till they get older and need more maintenance and costs go up! They are not that much cheaper than Delta now!
 
FutureSQPilot
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:23 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:06 am

As far as an operational standpoint...no they are not rustbuckets, and I know that some are only 17 years old with a possible 13 years or so left in their life. I realize that many aviation fans appreciate the old planes...but I would imagine that the common customer would go for a newer A320 with leather seats, new interior, satellite PTV in every seat over an "aging" 732 with an old, uncomfortable interior and no IFE. I know that no IFE is not the end of the world...but if you were paying a lower price for the airline with the IFE and the overall better product, which would you choose? Also, the above picture of DL 732 honestly looks nothing like much of the DLX fleet...the DLX 732 that I flew on last honestly looked even worse than this...

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wilcharl
Posts: 1153
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RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:11 am

the bird i was on had the standard DL interior which other then being six abreast was no differnt then an MD-80 on DL. See my new topic on meals on board as a new form of IFE
 
GD727
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:33 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:25 am

FutureSQPilot: Up here in New England, we don't have Jetblue and, as far as I know, they don't have any plans to start service, so it's between DLX and WN, the only place Jetblue serves Florida from is JFK, while DLX serves:

BOS, PVD, BDL, ISP, JFK, EWR, IAD, CMH, and IND from

MCO, TPA, RSW, PBI, and FLL in Florida.

Also, I find the interiors perfectly fine, they aren't the most comfortable things in the world, but they aren't "uncomfortable".

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
2cn
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 6:30 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:26 am

FutureSQPilot- the average common customer won't know or care that they are flying on a 732 vs a newer A320... it seems too many people on this site, when talking about what the common passenger would prefer.. they use too much of their "airline knowhow" in their opinions and forget the average customer does not know that they are flying on a 737 vs a 777 (yes... if you doubt this, believe me.. I heard a lady refer to the MD11 I was flying on from ATL to DFW as a 737 one minute, a 757 the next, then even said on her cell phone that they dont make 747s anymore and maybe it was a 777?! This, while she had a seat in row 50 something- she was talking loud on her cell and I was sitting near her waiting to board and heard all of this.) Even when it comes down to price, Delta Express is still cheaper then jetBlue for the same departure day, coming back the same day, etc... at least on the day I just checked (though it was only 40 bucks less.. to a family of four, that is a big difference.. even to a college kid.. think of how much beer that would buy?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )
 
FutureSQPilot
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:23 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:47 am

GD727- With JB not serving your area, you may need to take DLX, but which airline would you chose if you had the choice?
2cn- I live near RSW...and many of my friends and some other people that I have talked to have talked about how JB has satellite tv, leather seats, etc, and how they fly on JB whenever possible. These friends have no interest in Commercial Aviation. I don't want to turn this into a JB vs. DLX battle because I know that they are two very different operations, but couldn't DLX grab some more business if they improved their product and marketed it agressively?
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:15 am

But would they grab enough traffic to make up for the added expense? That is the question....
 
ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: Tango-Bravo

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:35 pm

"Delta to attack..." was the title of the article I read. It is not my wording.
 
FrequentFlier
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 10:45 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:47 pm

Wilcharl: Bringing food back would be nice, but would not allow DLX to operate as a LOW FARE carrier unless they used some pretty awful meals.

Personally, I would like to see meals reinstated on majors first.
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:39 pm

ORD: Thanks for explaining the reason for your choice of title for your new topic post. Sounds to me like the typlical torturing of our language commonly practiced by the tabloid journalists who pervade mainstream media in the U.S. today -- who pander to an audience with an attention span measured in fractions of one second.
 
GD727
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:33 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Thu Jul 25, 2002 1:05 am

GD727- With JB not serving your area, you may need to take DLX, but which airline would you chose if you had the choice? Actually, I would take whoever was cheaper and had the best times ect, and if all that was the same, I would probobly still take DLX bacause I personally do not like Airbus.

*Please Note: I am not trying to start an A vs B war, It is just my opinion.

-GD727
Mmmm forbidden donut.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5271
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Thu Jul 25, 2002 4:11 am

There's nothing wrong with the 732's. However, they are not efficient enough nor large enough to effectively compete with JBLU's A320's or WN's 737-700's.

The 732's may very well find themselves back in the mainline fleet upgrading routes that have become too large for RJ's.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Thu Jul 25, 2002 6:39 am

GD727, jetBlue also serves IAD from Florida (FLL) and plans a build-up at FLL in the future to add more destinations.
a.
 
miller22
Posts: 595
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Thu Jul 25, 2002 6:44 am

Delta's answer to low-fare will be the RJ. Word is already out.
 
AeroGlobeAir7
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:09 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Thu Jul 25, 2002 7:12 am

I think Delta Express should come back to Kansas City, and/or some other cities in the midwest. The Midwest-Florida market is a gold mine, maybe not as big as the NE-FL market, but still, there's alot of money to be made there. DLX used to fly to Orlando, in fact we were the only city in the midwest with DLX service. Some of you may feel the Kansas City-Orlando market is saturated, with 2 daily (??) Vanguard flights, and 2 daily (might be three) Southwest flights. I highly doubt another 2 or 3, maybe 4 flights couldn't fit into the schedule before no more money could be made, heck we're the 24th largest destination out of Orlando, that's not bad for a city just missing 2 million in population.
I also think DLX could probably use at least a few thoughts about a 73S replacement. What about you guys? I mean, I know they work well for them now, but it's time to start thinking about the future isn't it?

Andrew
AeroGlobeAir7
BABY BOEINGS ALL THE WAY!!!
FLY DELTA JETS!
TWA 4EVER
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Fri Jul 26, 2002 4:41 am

Does this have something to do with Delta unleashing its ARMADA???

 Smile
no wire hangers!
 
mf3864
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:25 am

RE: Delta To Attack Low-Fare Airlines

Fri Jul 26, 2002 4:57 am

Ive flown DeltaExpress twice... Both times BOS-MCO. The flight was kind of long for no meal service. They did toss Nutrigrain bars and soda at us. Lots of people knew ahead of time and brought their own sandwiches (myself included) Id rather they just offer drinks, and let us bring the food. Its all about price right? My biggest complaint was legroom. On the way down I got exit row, and it was fine. On the way back, my knees were crushed into the back of the seat. I am 5'10", not tall by any means but, it just seems very tight. I didnt think the planes were "rustbuckets". I flew metrojet twice, BOS-FLL. Same 737-200 but, they had more of a retro-jet feel. Maybe the grey color scheme?

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