airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:23 am

Great, they're seeking a third flight too, and I hope they can replace BA on the Pakistan routes in the future. Do PIA have unused slots at Heathrow that VS or BMI could utilise with code shares to any Pakistani city?

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chepos
Posts: 5938
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:43 am

Talk about being bipolar- LOL .
First they announce they are going to stop flying to Delhi and now they are going to continue to serve Delhi.
By the way Airmale were did you hear this?
CHEPOS
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:49 am

Typical VS shenanigans to get more publicity. The quote of the week comes from Shahnawaz Hussain, the Indian Civil Aviation minister who said something along the lines of "If they had simply asked for a third flight in the first place, they could have been awarded one. However, if they resort to blackmail we will call their bluff."

Sure enough, their bluff was called and VS decided to stay in India anyway. Aww...
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:03 am

"Typical VS shenanigans to get more publicity"

I agree, fantastic.

However, is 3 flights a week profitable? They already said 2 flights a week wasn't good enough... or was that "Typical VS sehnanigans"?  Laugh out loud
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:18 am

Ho ho ho Singapore_Air.VS free markets=no 3rd runway at LHR and VS allowed to fly wherever VS wants to.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:21 am

However, is 3 flights a week profitable?

Probably not, but VS needs to understand that they are guests of Air India to use any of these frequencies. They are not entitled to them as per the bilateral. Branson came up with a brilliant idea to reverse-codeshare these unused frequencies and presented it to Air India, who saw the benefits and agreed to HIS terms. Branson personally was in Delhi to negotiate this agreement and of course pulled a PR prank when he was there too by alleging that BA had denied him boarding to get back to London - the truth was that the flight was oversold and they simply refused to sell him a revenue ticket since they were already sold out. The terms were for 2 initial weekly frequencies, plus a third frequency CONTINGENT upon AI being awarded additional slots at LHR for their own operations. The AI slots never materialized and hence the third frequency didn't materialize. Rather than approach the Indian Government and REQUEST the third frequency anyway, VS instead chose to serve a termination notice and THEN publicize their pullout "because 2 frequencies are not sufficient". Well guess what buddy, if you wanted more frequencies, it might have helped if you had asked.

Air India is perfectly happy to give VS more service on dormant DEL-LHR frequencies (forget about BOM though, that is a fortress that even a Virgin won't be allowed near) as long as they get their codeshare block on the flights as well. In the end it allows AI to gain incremental revenue at virtually zero cost, and more importantly to both VS and AI, it weakens BA's market share to/from India. However, the Indian government will not (nor should they) capitulate and give VS their own rights to fly to India as long as the Indian flag carrier is denied Heathrow access for already awarded but dormant frequencies.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Leezyjet
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Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:29 am

According to the VS intranet, they never officially announced that they would stop flying to India, it was just rumoured that they were thinking about it, - don't know how true that is tho.

I can't imagine VS not asking for a third extra flight, it's not like them not to do that, they are usually so full on when they want something.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:49 am

-437B:

Whats the problem with Heathrow access to AI's 5 dormant frequencies? Does AI want access only between 08:00 - 14:00 hours when Heathrow is a zoo in order to make transatlantic ops feasible?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Decide To Stay In India

Thu Jul 25, 2002 3:00 am

Whats the problem with Heathrow access to AI's 5 dormant frequencies?

Therein lies the problem. AI has FREQUENCIES but no SLOTS to operate them. So even though they have the right to operate the flight, they don't have permission to land the plane at Heathrow, at whatever time of day. That essentially renders the rights useless. India's position is that until SLOTS are allocated to AI that ALLOW them to use these rights to actually operate flights, they will not allow a SECOND British carrier into India, nor will the allow ADDITIONAL services by BA to other Indian cities. Which, IMHO, is a very reasonable condition.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada