Air Taiwan
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Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:32 pm

Although you never know what's going to happen to the airline industry down under, (re Ansett/Tesna & Kendell/Australiawide), it looks like that Qantas is determined to get 25% of Air NZ pretty soon.

If, Qantas gets the 25% stake in Air NZ, will Air NZ leave Star Alliance?

All opinions welcomed.

Jimmy
 
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skippy777
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sun Jul 28, 2002 5:51 pm

yes, I think so. Air NZ will become join the One world Alliance
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:01 pm

It was suggested yesterday that it would remain pretty much status quo (can't remember where I read that sorry, NZ Herald I think)

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
Guest

RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:12 pm

Airline Business reported that should such a situation occur, the case for ANZ remaining in Star would be very slim...the likely outcome would be for oneworld to bring ANZ aboard.

Furthermore, Rigas Doganis, an Air Transport professor, has predicted that the future will bring changes in many alliances, and that some alliances will eventually break up, as members constantly adjust their strategies to compete more effectively.

Likely to be some interesting times ahead, in the world of alliances!
 
rmm
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:21 pm

Does anyone know what the penalties are for leaving the Star Alliance?
I heard figures between $USD 10 and 50 million.

Rmm
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sun Jul 28, 2002 7:14 pm

Star Alliance severance penalty of NZ$60 million was the number that was floating around last year when Qantas first reared its head into Air NZ's business.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
JAL
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:57 am

Should Qantas succeed in getting 25% of ANZ, expect ANZ to join OneWorld.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
qatarairways
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:44 am

I don't know about this. I have a feeling that there would be quite a fight from the existing Star Alliance members to keep Air NZ in but Aviation is becoming very unpredicatable and so I won't make a bet on that.

I agree with Rigas Doganis' Analysis, BTW he has an excellent book out on the industry The Airline Business in the 21st Century.

Regards,
QatarAirways
 
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 5:51 am

QR,

That book inspires many of my comments on this board......  Big grin

I've just got my library to order his next book, 'Flying off Course', due out in August.

Cheers
 
Oz777
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 8:52 am

That is one of the major sticking points about QF taking a cornerstone investment in ANZ.

There are several consequences.

If QF takes the shareholding, and ANZ moves into Oneworld, then it is almost definite that the Star Alliance will start it's own Australian East Coast / Trans Tasman operation.

ANZ has to look at whether it is prepared to lose the traffic feed from the USA it gets it from UA and several other US carriers who do not want to align with QF/AA, in return for a partial feed of Australian traffic - expect QF however to not let too much of this go to ANZ.

There are then the implications for Freedom (makes you wonder why ANZ would ramp up a budget carrier right in the same territory as QF's new budget operation, Australian).

Perhaps Freedom will be the "patsy" - sold off as an "independent" operator to ensure that competition trans-tasman meets the regulatory restraints expected by both the Australian and NZ Competition authorities.

Last but not least, expect a severe back-lash by the members of the ANZ Airpoints scheme who like the flexibility that Star provides, as well as the product. Sadly, Oneworld just does not seem to have the same interchangeability in product, particularly when QF largely mirrors NZ's prime destinations. Never underestimate the power of the populace to exert influence in both the boardroom, and on the majority shareholder!!

Oz777
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 3:43 pm

Thanks for all your comments, some of which are quite agreeable.

Air NZ in its own right doesn't provide too much in terms of traffic to other airlines in Star Alliance other than the trans-tasman market. I have the feeling that Star would not do too much to save Air NZ from being bought by Qantas.

Star Alliance airlines, on the other hand, would as some of you have mentioned, would have to start their own airline in Australia to do domestic Australian and trans-tasman flights if Air NZ is to be sold to Qantas. Lets just hope that Star in the same time accepting new members from Korea, Spain and Eastern Europe, does not forget about the Australasian market.

Jimmy

PS Capt Picard, "Flying off course" is our text book at uni for the subject Aviation Economics, quite an expensive book to buy...
 
jesseycy
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:44 pm

I would say that AirNZ would go into oneworld, simply because it'll make it much easier for Qantas to feed part of its passengers onto AirNZ.

I heard on onenews a few days ago that AirNZ may sell Freedom Air off, maybe to Virgin Blue? It makes sense, they would ease off some of the pressure they'll get from both sides of the Tasman about monopolizing the markets.

But think about it, if AirNZ does go with oneworld, wouldn't that be really bad for Star Allicance Members? Think about their rtw ticket routings. Travelling into the Pacific is going to be so troublesome.... How will they fly from Sydney to Auckland? Via Singapore?
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Mon Jul 29, 2002 11:30 pm

Well Thai still does a daily SYD-AKL service, and they do BNE-AKL as well, also UA does MEL-AKL... but then on a much less frequent basis...

Jimmy
 
travel
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Tue Jul 30, 2002 8:55 am

I don't think that Australia will be neglected with the Star Alliance group, should QF buy a stake in NZ.

It would either be Virgin Blue or a new Australian airline or even possibly both competing against the Qantas/Air New Zealand group.

Should a new airline be established in Australia, it would probably make more economic sense to have this proposed new Australian airline and Virgin Blue as partners. Virgin Blue can remain as a low cost operation and this new airline as the fully serviced with lounges that allow Virgin Blue pax's aswell.

 
Marara
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:14 pm

what about NZ staying in * and flying alongside QF in Australia on major city pairs (with a v. limited schedule) for * traffic, this would block SQ from starting a new full service carrier in AUS or DJ going premium and QF would be able to have some control over whats happening.
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
travel
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:24 pm

Would it be a good idea for Air New Zealand to be flying within Australia?

Personally I dont think it would be a good idea for NZ fly on domestic routes within Australia only obvious reasons..
 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:37 pm

why doesnt SIA and LH do a joint bid. I think that ANZ is to valuable to Star since Ansett Australia went under to let QF steal it from Star. Plus what about antitrust violations because QF and ANZ would control 80% of Australia - New Zealand flights. I think it'll be UA-US aussie style
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sat Aug 03, 2002 1:02 pm

why doesnt SIA and LH do a joint bid. I think that ANZ is to (too) valuable to Star since Ansett Australia went under to let QF steal it from Star.

I think it's quite the opposite. Since Ansett is gone now Air NZ has little or no value to Star.

Jimmy
 
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sat Aug 03, 2002 1:26 pm

Since Ansett is gone now Air NZ has little or no value to Star.

Fact please. Hopefully this only represent your thought. Just because Air NZ financially killed Anstt, so your conclusion towards Air NZ is "worthless"?

Air NZ is still valuable to Star. It helps Star major to feed most of the flights from down under to Europe, North America, 2 of the Star's Major markets. So how can you say that Air NZ is worthless?

Plus it will take times for Star to establish it's own service, with intense networks in the Oceania region. As for Virgin Blue, it's makret share is not compareable to Qantas. I don't see any reason why Star Alliance is willing to lose ANZ.

And if you think Air NZ is worthless, then why not just say I think Air NZ is worthless to Star, so they should be bought by Qantas and join OneWorld?

No intention to attack on personal post, but I don't really understand what makes you think an airline is worthless to a major alliance.

Bigo747/1126.
 
Marara
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sat Aug 03, 2002 1:33 pm

Flights from 'down under' to Europe can be taken over by SQ/TG flights to the US can go with UA. NZs services to the Pacific islands (and domestic ops) are the only flights that arent really served by another * airline
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sat Aug 03, 2002 2:14 pm

I am pretty sure Air NZ would need to pull out of Star Alliance eventually.

Regards
QantasAirways
Spirit of Australia
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sat Aug 03, 2002 5:51 pm

Air NZ is the only carrier in Star that has a major presence in the Pacific Islands not including Code Shares, this is quite a large tourist spot down under and if star were to lose Air NZ then they Star would have no major services to this region!

OneWorld have Qantas, although QF don't fly to many destinations with their own aircraft in the Pacific Islands, they code share with carriers like FJ, TN, PH and NF so there is connecting traffic through Australia for OneWorld to this region.
 
jesseycy
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RE: Qantas/ Air NZ And Star Alliance

Sat Aug 03, 2002 7:37 pm

Believe me, Star IS needed down under. I have some UA FF miles, and they are sitting here collecting dust! Not enough for a long haul trip, but seems a waste for a short hop within NZ either! You can't even use your miles to exchange for a ticket flying within Australia!

So if Star does loses AirNZ, think about how all those people will fly from Sydney to Christchurch/Wellington! Like I suggested the last time, via Singapore?????