airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 1:50 am

Only four passenger airlines operate the type i.e Korean Air Cargo, EVA Air Cargo, Saudi Arabian Airlines Cargo and Lufthansa Cargo. Dosent teh aircraft have advantage over the 744F with one less engine to maintain, yet most airlines are replacing their 747-200F with the 744F, capacity and fleet/cockpit commonality apart why has the MD11F failed to attract major airlines?

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p.s add China Eastern Airlines Cargo to the list.
.....up there with the best!
 
744rules
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:34 am

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:28 am

On a practical point of view (loading, unloading, weight and balance), the md11f has much more restrictions than the 744f, such as special contours to fit in the a/c, out- and oversized cargo, tipping risk, pallet weight restrictions,....
You might have an engine less to maintain, but you cannot accept the same kind of cargo because you do not have nosedoor loading capability or a 300cm side cargo door which means a loss of revenue as well .
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 2:38 am

Add to the list Martinair who operates MD-11F and the MD-11CF.
 
ContinentalFan
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:47 am

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:04 am

I think also because Fedex and UPS buy up a lot of the available MD-11s.
 
FlyAirbus
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:54 am

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:53 am

Don't forget China Eastern. Cargo and passenger:


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donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 3:57 am

Also Boeing no longer makes the M11.Apparently LH wanted some more and wasn't too chuffed about its discontinuation.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:01 am

Another airline that flies the MD-11F is World Airways.

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woodsboy
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 5:59 am

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:51 am

And Gemini...........

The MD11 may not have the nose door, but when you look at how often the capability of the nose door is used (as with LH Cargo) it just didnt make up for the dramatic savings in fuel efficiency and maintenance not to mention its range and 2 person flight deck as opposed to the 747-200F 3 person flight deck. The MD-11 also has more belly capacity than the 747..........

You wont find much of the cargo (upper deck) going on board MD11s (except perhaps for FedEx and UPS) to be in containers, its almost all paletized and uses the same equipment that the 747s do.

The MD11 is the perfect freighter, save for the utility of the nose door. One thing to remember about the nose door on the 747 is that you might have the ability to load LONG cargo, but it cant be too tall, you have a really low ceiling in front so you cannot take advantage of the tall ceiling aft of the flight deck/ crew rest area unless it goes in through the rear cargo door.
 
KAL_LM
Posts: 492
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 8:58 am

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:57 pm

In my experience with the beast, if you work it right, the MD-11F is pretty damn good. For a medium size market it is not too big,like the 747F, but it has legs to work a direct routing at payload. (when we had them here in PDX we could send them direct to ICN with a payload around 70 tons, which was perfect, not too much wasted space.)

With the nose door on the 747F you open up a wide range of really long stuff, but it's kind of rare to actually need to use it, and as it has been mentioned, your height is limited to 96". On the MD-11F the door is wider so you have more room to rotate long nasty stuff inside, and if it built up correctly you can pull off some pretty long stuff.

Tipping can be prevented by intelligent step-loading or use of nose tethering equipment (like FedEx and other have). Zone limitations are actually pretty generous and again, with proper knowledge, not that big of a deal. And using containers is really a big waste of space when dealing with general freight, palletizing that stuff is much easier.

One main reason I think that airlines are dumping the 742F for the 744F is sweetheart financing from Boeing, and that the airlines that can utilize the aircraft the best (UPS, FedEx are well suited for its unique nature) have already snapped or are placing their bids for them. And as one marketing guy told me once...in terms of public recognition, an MD-11F isn't quite the same as a 747F.

Just my thoughts...

regards,
Tom
is that a light at the end of the tunnel or just a train?
 
Amir
Posts: 1224
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: MD11F With Only Four Passenger Airlines?

Tue Jul 30, 2002 4:56 pm

Hi Tom,

tks for your 'thoughts'. really interesting!
What about economic operation. Are there any figures or tendencies to claim the MD11 might be more interesting or rather ecominc than a 74F? i know that this is theory since this will vary with different airlines.

concerning the public opinion. Yes, you are damn right, the 74F still attracts more public interest than any other freighter.

Brgds
Amir

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