soontobepilot
Posts: 267
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 9:18 am

Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Sun Aug 04, 2002 10:53 am

Hi everyone,

I just finished the book TRACON. A stunning and wonderful story. Anyway, it is true to a large extent. In TRACON, TCAS runs two planes together. Although the actual crash isnt real, I immediatly thought about the recent midair in Europe. Is it possible that TCAS gave the pilots "evasive" directions that ran them together? Thanks
-soontobepilot
 
AA7771stClass
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 9:26 am

RE: Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Sun Aug 04, 2002 1:22 pm

As far as I can figure, it wasn't TCAS' fault. While I found "Tracon" to be a good and interesting book, it was still fiction. I think the problem arises when you realize that ATC and TCAS were giving different directions, both of which would have avoided the collision. But one pilot did what he should have and the other didn't...plain and simple.
 
danialanwar
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:13 pm

RE: Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Sun Aug 04, 2002 1:40 pm

In the recent collision, TCAS worked properly, instruction DHL to descent and Bashkiri to climb. However, at the same time as the TCAS advisory, ATC instructed the Bashkiri plane to descent ... after some hesitation, the Bashkiri pilot decided to follow ATC instruction rather than TCAS, with the known result
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Sun Aug 04, 2002 4:11 pm

What I have read in the Swiss press is what Danialanwar said. The TCAS system would have saved the day. Swisscontrol screwed up not once but twice - firstly, the two aircraft should have been pointed to different parts of the sky several minutes earlier, before it became an emergency, and second, when the situation had deteriorated to critical, gave the wrong emergency maneuver instructions.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Guest

RE: Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Sun Aug 04, 2002 6:59 pm

But one pilot did what he should have and the other didn't...plain and simple.

Actually, BOTH pilots did what they were trained to do. The problem is that there is no worldwide standard for dealing with TCAS issues.

So it isn't "plain and simple".

the Bashkiri pilot decided to follow ATC instruction rather than TCAS, with the known result

The pilot didn't "decide" to follow ATC instruction. He did what he was trained to do. Read above: "no worldwide standard".
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Sun Aug 04, 2002 8:15 pm

Aviatsiya.ru has one important detail: "The problem is that there is no worldwide standard for dealing with TCAS issues. That's incredible in my opinion. Knowing, that TCAS is the last solution - there were many chances missed before by the Swiss ATCO - it's absolutely necessary, that this system, which combines actions taken by technique (TCAS) and human beeings (the pilot) works perfect, and everywhere within the same rules.

Gerardo
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Jeff G
Posts: 438
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:56 am

RE: Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland

Mon Aug 05, 2002 12:11 am

Then Bashkiri and similar airlines who don't have a procedure to follow TCAS have no business installing them in the first place. If it's true that their training has their pilots ignoring RA's in favor of an ATC directive, then the airline should be held criminally liable. The TCAS system is designed to separate aircraft as a last ditch effort, requiring cooperation from both aircraft. As happened in this case, when it's ignored, there's a high chance of collision. It's real simple: if you're going to disregard RA's, turn TA/RA mode to the OFF position. Otherwise, every other airplane in the sky with you is assuming that you'll comply with RA's. "No worldwide standard" is not a compelling excuse.

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