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Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 9:30 am

Is there any truth to the rumour that Boeing will be either lending or providing free-of-charge 3 B717s to Northwest Airlines in efforts to woo them?

NWA is replacing their DC-10s with A330s (delivery to begin sometime this or next year, I think...) But they have yet to decide what aircraft will replace their aging DC9s (some of which date back to 1966!) I'm guessing Boeing is aiming to get back some NWA business, as NWA has been snapping up A319/320s for some time now, and soon to take delivery of the A330s. Other than the B752, B753, B742, and B744, I'm not aware of any other Boeings that NWA operates (save the 727s which will soon be gone.)

Is the Airbus A318 also an alternative to replace the DC9? Any ideas? NWA is such a cost-minded airline, and has always, in my opinion, preferred Airbus in latter years due to their signifigantly lower price tags. (I could be way off on this assumption.)

Am I the only one hearing this? This came via chats with NWA employees only at MSP (where I work.)

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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 10:32 am


I heard this about a month ago from an Air Tran pilot, but I was hesitant to say anything about it. Though I have heard nothing more about this, it would make sense to me.

NW plans on flying the DC-9's until 100,000 cycles, and that's not too far off. They are going to have to replace at least 100 of those with something other than a A319. They have all but said that the A318 is uneconomical.

That leaves the 717 or the larger RJ's or the A318 if Airbus provides a sweet deal.

It makes sense to me for Boeing to do this. I hope it's true, as I think the 717 would be the most perfect replacement for the DC-9.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 10:48 am

Yeah,a NW 717 would look sweet! Also would be a great boost to the 717 line.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 3:06 pm

I agree as well.. NW and the 717 would fit well together..

I was also talking with a NW dc-9 pilot, and he (and a lot of his dc-9 pilot buddies) hope NW chooses the 717 over the A318..

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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 3:16 pm

That would be a wise move of Boeing. IMO one reason why Boeing didn't crap the 717 is because they are hopeful about a big deal. Thinking of a big deal, only NWA, AA or Air Canada comes to my mind....What do you think?
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 4:10 pm

Since Boeing has some ex-TWA 717's laying around I wound not be surprised if this rumor is true. When you think of it, what do they have to lose? If they are lucky they might be able to get an important order from a "blue chip" airline. Something the 717 program has yet to achieve.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 10:03 pm

How many TW 717s are left? AirTran was planning to take 19-20 of them next year.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 10:26 pm

Air Canada will not order the 717. They got rid of the DC-9's the only thing left is the 732 which they will probably replace with the A319.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:03 pm

Non the less boeing is moving ahead with the certification of the MD90 and 717 in Canada, and is/will be providing a sweet deal for them for jetsgo if they survive.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:49 am

The problem that Boeing and Airbus are facing with the 717, A318, and 736 is that airlines just don't want them. The 736's operating costs equal that of the 73G, yet it carries less seats, making it more profitable to run a 73G on the route. Same thing with the A318 as opposed to the A319. The 717 has no family, and in the days of commonality, airlines aren't wanting it. Airlines are just choosing to leave a gap in the 100 seat market. My guess is that most airlines are waiting for the 90 seat RJ's.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:37 am

2 717 of the ex-AA birds will go to Bangkok Air, 6 are with Qantaslink and Airtran is to take 19 or 20. So there must be 2 or 3 717 left....this could work!
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 3:23 am

We had a nwa dc 9 capt jumpseat today to fll and he also confirmed the rumor. It might just be talk, but with over 150 dc9s to replace someday, this would be a sweet deal for boeing and nwa, lets wait and see.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:07 am

Now from what I have read and heard, Northwest was once interested in the jet (back when it was the MD-95) and passed on it. I also understand that they claim that the dispatch reliability rate on their DC-9s is better than AirTran's 717s. If Boeing does in fact give NWA a few 717s for a gratis trial period, maybe they will get an order for them from NWA. They will need a DC-9 replacement, and the 717 makes more sense than the A318. Even though the 717 doesn't share commonality with the 717, the A318's commonality with the A319 is not all that it's supposed to be. One distinct disadvantage of the A318 is that it is heavier than the 717, which means highers costs for fuel and landing fees. I would also think the conversion training time from a DC-9 to a 717 is a whole heck of a lot shorter than for the time to go from a DC-9 to an A318, and faster training makes economic sense, because you can have these pilots out on the line quicker, and that's a good thing. Another side benefit would be they could make the current DC-9 MX base @ ATL a 717 MX base, and could make money off of AirTran by doing some MX work for them.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:15 am

Doesnt Northwest own those RJ85's that Meseba operates, I heard a while back that might be a possibility as well. They could be reconfigured and be a good replacement for some of the smaller 9's.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 4:57 am

I hope NWA takes the 717 or the new CRJ 900's that are coming soon. Well we will have to see what happens.

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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:27 am

Problem with the RJ85's is the scope clause in the NW pilots contract. It stipulates that NW can't operate or subcontract (in the case of NW/Mesaba) any more than 36 aircraft of less than 70 seats (ie. an Avro). That and the RJ85 is not made anymore. Are there a lot out there to buy used? Even at that, they still need to find something in the 100-seat size range to replace the DC9 one day.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:00 am

Hope this rumor is true!

An intersting side note for YX fans is that if the 717 program does not suceed, Midwest Express is in big trouble! I'm always crossing my fingers for NWA to come through with this for the sake of YX.

I would think that all it will take is one big order, and the stage will be set not only for 717 success, but for the expansion of the family.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:01 am

at farnborough, Boeing said at a press release that NWA is replacing their dc-9s with 737NGs.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:18 am

This must be wrong......NWA has such a large fleet of A319 and A320, so why should they take the 737NG? Makes really no sense IMO. Perhaps they said NWA instead of Aeromexico....
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:57 am

Check sources first.  Smile Northwest won't be getting 737s anytime soon. LOL
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 7:05 am

I'm very sure that
Boeing did not say that.
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RE: Boeing 717s // NWA DC9s

Tue Aug 06, 2002 10:06 am

There is only one problem with the CRJ, cabin height. Although the newer models have more clearance, they still feel like a small airplane. Further to this, they could have a problem with all of their cabins crews working the airplane, at Jazz we have a height restriction of 5ft11 over that you don't have to work it(cabin crew) if you don't want to. The ARJ, B717 have the larger cabin. I think it would be great if NWA goes with the B717. I'm sure disappointed that AC isn't interested in it. I hope NWA shys away from the A318.

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