SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Thu Aug 08, 2002 7:04 am

The Hong Kong Aircrew Officer's Association has said that industrial action of some sort could take place in October 2002 if the airline's management refused to discuss with the union about it's demands.

A general meeting will be held for union members on 9 October 2002 and what sort of action will be discussed then. "We'll report the situation (to the members) ... They'll vote on the preferred course of action," General Secretary John Findlay said.

Relations between the HKAOA and the airline have been sour for many years. In July 2001, the HKAOA launched a work-to-rule action delaying and cancelling many flights. Due to 11 September 2001, industrial action was halted in October 2001.

More information at the Dow Jones / Yahoo website and the Reuters / Yahoo website

Information was gathered from the two above hyperlinked webpages. Full information can be viewed by clicking the two above hyperlinks.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Thu Aug 08, 2002 9:45 pm

So what?! Do they know the poor economic situation?! Do they know the public hate industrial action?! Do they knows many people lost jobs or reduce the salary?! Of course not! Most of them live in Discovery Bay, a high class residential area! They do not go outside! They just stay in Discovery Bay, cockpits, 5 stars hotels! Do they go to low class residential area(public housing) to have a look?? They are the rich! Do they know about the life of the poor? We should discriminate the rich who know nothing about the society.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6007
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Thu Aug 08, 2002 10:19 pm

Yes poor Cathay...only 1.7Billion dollars.  Sad
 
hkg82
Posts: 1301
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 4:24 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 3:11 am

CXPCA:
Your posts never fail to make me laugh.

Why hasn't CX management started negotiating with the union, or at least, start talking to them? CX keep going on & on about how they won't negotiate with the union while industrial action is under way, but that isn't a productive attitude towards the whole issue. The pilots have been undertaking industrial action for a very long time, on & off, to try & get CX to address their demands, surely, they have to be *reasonable*. CX has a very good reputation in the airline industry but it's slowly being tarnished with the pilots' dispute. I wish they would just settle this once & for all so CX can focus on its expansion plans & move forward. It's gone on for long enough.

Hkg82.
 
B-HOP
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:09 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:28 pm

CXCPA: -

They live in Discovery Bay, so what? They DESERVES it, how many points you got in CEE? or you haven't done it yet? You think they should have a look on government estate, where do you live? I heard on radio one local pilot actully grew up in Lam Tin Estate, but he made it, don't think people like you would though, if our kids thinks like you than expect to have safety record like CI.

P.S: - My dad have a salary reduction this year

Singapore_Air: -

Do you have to attack SQ every single time, do you paid by SQ PR department? Go find something better to do.

Regards
Kev

Live life to max!!!
 
9V-SPK
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:53 am

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:38 pm

B-HOP, I think you mean CX, not SQ...

Not trying to be mean, but I see nothing wrong with his post. Give me one point that he's trying to attack CX, when he's just posting an article from Dow Jones / Yahoo website and the Reuters / Yahoo website, to let everyone on A.net know the situation between HKAOA and CX. I'm now in Sydney, and if he didn't post this article I might not get to know what's happening between them.

Maybe he's used to post only negative news of CX and positive news of SQ, now he posts everything about different airlines and different news, which is a big change. If you're only judging him because of this post, I'm afraid you're really wrong.

Best Regards

 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 1:06 pm

I think the point is that Singapore_air, rightly or wrongly, has a 'reputation' for being the one to generally post negative news about CX.

I think it is reasonable for CX to refuse to negotiate under threat of industrial action. After all, the union has to do something to show good faith bargaining - and I think calling off the industrial action will do this. CX will then be forced to negotiate so as not to lose face. If talks do not work out, the union can always reinstate industrial action. So I think the ball is in the union's court - they should make the first step.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 4:16 pm

B-HOP,
What is your grade in English Language? Do you know what is the meaning of most of them?
Most of them is not equal to ALL
PLEASE REMEMBER
PLEASE DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ANY POST AGAIN!
The case you mentioned is a speical case.
 
duff
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2001 10:29 am

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:32 pm

CXCPA. Pull your head in!!

A majority of these pilots (and I would hasten to say, nearly all) had atrocious living conditions before finally making it. Some worked 2 jobs just to pay their way and even that wasn't enough. I know of an SO (expat) who finally got his break after putting up with years of cr@p conditions and pay while flying GA. They deserve all the luxuries they get.
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:46 pm

1) Singapore_Air only posts news that we can read on other sites. All his posts are just news he has seen and thinks we all want to read it, however as most of his topics never get many replies I would guess not many people are interested.

2) CXCPA,

Now, you are just silly. All you every do is complain about CX pilots, it may be true that many don't have a clue about the normal man on the street but thats not their problem. If they do something thats against the law they will be in trouble, if not they have the rights to do what they are doing.

Everyone knows that CX are very tight in the money department and many of us know that a very senior local guy at CX does not like pilots that are not local. What he may not understand is that its CX that have caused the problems in the first place.

Anyway, I have views on both sides of this issue. I'm one of those normal guys at street level but on the other hand my best friend is a CX pilot.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6007
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:47 pm

Most S/Os went through years of risking their lives, flying in broken planes, flying over the legal limit of hours in extremely bad weather just to get enough hours. If they complained to their boss, they would be fired and there's always a queue of guys waiting to fly even if the flying is over the legal limits. Many have flown into places where the locals have mugged them, threatened them, had guns pointed at them, knives put to their throats. Not to mention the thousands of hours of study, all the exams, and the fact that flying is actually very bad for your body. They deserve a decent living standard.

As for negotiations, it would be great if everyone sat down and talked, but there can only be so much promise of talk before the union has had enough and does something about it. Don't forget, the 'talks' have been going on for 8-9 years now!!
 
Ejazz
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed May 22, 2002 10:26 am

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:49 pm

As Singapore Airlines has been mentioned lets not forget that next Friday the pilots there vote for or against a Government approved ballot to vote on Industrial Action. So Singapore Airlines Pilots may well be taking Industrial Action before our colleagues at Cathay.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Fri Aug 09, 2002 5:56 pm

Cx_flyboy has made a good case for pilots in general to be paid highly - and they are! CX is not looking to pay pilots the same as they pay say their aircraft cleaners. Anyone know what pilots for other airlines pull in terms of CX? No matter what the union claims, new recruits are still walking into the airline with their eyes wide open.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sat Aug 10, 2002 3:44 pm

There are some users in this forum are paid by somebody. They just attack those object AOA's action unreasonably. IF they are reasonable, why so many people and mass media object their action?? The facts will prove who is right!

CX pilots,
If you think you are right, please tell your point to the public. Why don't you do that? I don't believe all the facts are confidential. Just tell the truth to the public and let them to judge, not take disgusting actions! If you don't, then.......you are professionals, you should know that how to do it! How can I support the right side if I do not know the facts clearly?!
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:34 pm

I'm sure the Cathay Pilots have a reason why they think about an industrial action.
But there is no need to bring all the whys and hows to the public. It is better for both parts to discuss their problems first within the company before going to the public.
The problem with the public is that they don't understand some facts or just ignore them.

We had the same problme last year with Lufthansa. My colleagues had striked because they wanted 20% more money, they public got really angry. How can Pilots be so arrogant to want 20% more we only got 2 or 3 % per year.

Nobody was interested ion the fact that after the Gulf War where the salarys were reduced by 20% to 25% they' ve never been upgraded with 20 or 25%.

Cathay Pilots should handle like they think it is right and the rest who have nothing to do with Cathay and their policy just be quite and wait what is going to happen.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sun Aug 11, 2002 6:58 am

SQ325: I think the public have a right to know the facts if the pilots are going to disrupt flights as a result of their industrial action. Remember that the Cathay pilots have already instigated industrial action on the grounds of what they didn't get. You say that Lufthansa pilots wanted 20% - well, the problem is that the CX pilots haven't even said any specifics, simply that they want better pay and rostering!!! Part of the dispute has stemmed from the fact that nobody knows what exactly the two parties are arguing over!

CXCPA has a point: right now I should think most of the passengers are supporting Cathay, because they have a perception that the pilots are being unreasonable. If the pilots do think their claim is justified (and they obviously do) they should outline exactly what they want so the public can judge for themselves. And by all means, release all the facts, including any pay cuts and pay rises over the years.
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sun Aug 11, 2002 12:32 pm

Remember that the pilot have tried to tell the public. The newspapers are given the details, but they just don't want to print it. The public don't care what the pilots want, they just know that they get paid more than the average Hong Kong officer worker, bus driver, etc.. so they don't deserve more. The AOA has given the information to the newspapers, but it doesn't sell newspapers. The public love to criticise pilots all over the world, they don't care whether it is justified or not. The public does not know what it is like to fly an airliner of be a pilot. They do not see the hardship that most pilots have to go through before they finally land that airline job. They do not experience the jet-lag, being away from your family, the dry cabin conditions etc... They just see a highly paid job for doing very little and travelling all over the world. The union has given up on trying to keep the public in the loop, as they will not understand and never offer support.

 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:31 pm

Dab920,
Last time, The mass media printed the information provided by AOA. But the mass media put great effort on reporting the affect caused by the action. The public still thought that pilots' action are unsuitable. Anyway, if AOA take more industrial action, the image of pilots is seriously affected.
CX pilots,
Please remember, the image is very important.
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:40 pm

Dear CXCPA,

I don't really think that the pilots care too much what you think! The public will not understand what life is like as a pilot. Only other pilots really understand. The public expects pilots to be very professional and deal with emergencies in the way that they are expertly trained. I bet, if you interview any passenger who has just been in an emergency, where their lives were at risk, but were ultimately saved by the actions of the crew, and ask them if they think those pilots deserve a good standard of living, people will say yes, they deserve it all. You yourself said that the pilot of CX872 the other day was very professional. It is expected that pilots are professional. It is expected that they should know exactly how to perform in an emergency. It is what they are trained to do, any if I am ever in an emergency, I will be glad that the pilots are do what they are paid to do, and save me. I will be glad that they have a good life and I will not complain against it at all. If you go to hospital after an accident and the doctor saves your life, will you complain at him if he is asking for a better standard of living? I am sure you will not.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:11 pm

For goodness' sake nobody's saying that pilots should be paid the same as a teenager working in a fish 'n chip shop!!! I'm sure pilots do deserve a good salary in return for the work they put in and I'm sure they get it. The issue here is whether the CX pilots' claims are reasonable under the circumstances.

It is a very cynical view to take that the media is not interested in the pilots' claims, and that type of comment without appropriate justification is not conducive to constructive discussion.
 
dab920
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 5:00 am

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Sun Aug 11, 2002 10:19 pm

B-HXB, You have not really seen CXCPA in full swing have you? He has a history of hatred towards the CX pilots, and simply won't listen to people on this forum in the know, including cx pilots themselves! He just listens to the press, and tabloid press at that, and takes what they say for gospel. The truth is that the pilot's plights don't interest the Hong Kong public, and they love reading about how the company is wonderful and how these horrible foreigners are greedy and demanding. There is a general dislike for foreigners in the lower ranks of Hong Kong people, especially after 1997. I used to work in Hong Kong and I liked it for many things, but the people can be rather nasty pieces of work and very unreasonable. Certainly not a loving caring logical bunch of people.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:19 pm

Dab920,
Were the CX pilots greedy and demanding?? Please have a look of their demand. And their demand is always changing. Today, they demand event A, tomorrow, they may demand event B because lack of support! I don't know what they really want! And you should not assume anyone is racist unreasonably.
 
9v-svc
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:33 pm

Gee , not again . This is bad for the airline industry . It's pretty sad that these folks have to resort to strikes . Unfortuntately we cant do anything to stop these kind of acts .

 Sad
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
B-HXB
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 12:04 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:39 pm

I think that the pilots having to resort to strike action is slightly less sad than forum members who have unreasonable, generalistic racist views on groups and proceed to air them without any appropriate justification whatsoever.

I repeat: comments not based on facts and have the potential to be inflammatory are not conducive to constructive discussion.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6007
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Mon Aug 12, 2002 7:32 pm

It is the truth that the locals don't care too much about the pilots. There is envy, and people simply think that they should just shut up and take whatever the management is willing to dish out. Unfortunately this is the attitude of all of Hong Kong. No-one is willing to stand up for themselves, everyone is just scared and lets their bosses abuse their contracts. The government does not help workers either, as it only helps employers, although things are changing very very slowly, with more people in different industries protesting a little more nowadays. The fact that the economy is bad is not an excuse. Everything must be looked upon on a case-by-case basis. Is one particular company makes a lot of profit, you cannot claim that the economy is bad as an excuse for bad treatment. It just doesn't work.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:40 pm

CX flyboy,
Do CX management ask you to do too much? Do CX management bully you? If Are the salary is too less? If not, CX management treat you very well. Making great profit is not an excuse to have long term good treatment. You may ask for bonus, not not others unless low pay, heavy workload or bullying. It is quite strange that other employees in HK do not have power to get for better treatment, but pilots do.
 
Kangar
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 8:11 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:28 pm

Folks,
The HKAOA is a paper tiger - they tried introducing a recruitment ban last year when the 49 officers were sacked, but they still allowed their members to take promotions into the sacked men's positions. How can they tell a twentysomething with a family, looking for a break to stay away from CX when their members are benefitting off the sackings - they are no better than the scabs they supposedly detest. In any case, in a recent leadership ballot, the HKAOA union leader only got backing of about 600 pilots out of the thousand or so CX pilots the HKAOA represents. His proportion of the votes was up, but the union membership is down. CX have closer to 1600 pilots, and the reason for this is that the HKAOA is losing credibility. Also, a note to the first poster - 1.7 billion HK dollars was their profit - this is about 180 million US dollars, a very different picture to what you tried to portray. The pilots do fine out of CX -if they din't, they would leave. Unfortunately airline management - union relations are in the stone ages - the minute there is a profit, the unions are ready to kill the goose which laid the Golden egg, and the minute there is a loss, the management does the same. The aviation industry is in serious need of some enlightened management and union leadership, and unfortunatley neither is currently to be seen anywhere, except Southwest Airlines. It's time for the siege mentality to go on both sides. Pilot are not slaves, they do a good job, and airlines are not simply there to provide jobs for crew, they are there to make money - there is a balance in the middle.
 
User avatar
skippy777
Posts: 822
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2001 6:01 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:37 pm

Any Pilots here from CX don't strike on the 7 th of october or the 17th. I have to fly Cathay than, please.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: CX Pilots Could Take Industrial Action In October

Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:47 pm

Kangar,
Almost all worker union in Western is like AOA. They think that the company should not make great profit! They want to share the large portion of the profits. They may be communists! But when the company has great red figure, they become capitalist. They think that company lose money because of poor management ONLY. No boss can tackle this great problem. This is the one of the reason why there are so few airlines make profits. The suitable salary is very difficult to determine. Different sides protect their benefits.  Sad

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