go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:32 pm

im slightly surprised that people arent more worried about united confirming today that bankruptcy is an opton that they will take.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2194297.stm

Personal feelings aside, do you think united can survive or do you think its simply too much to hope for?

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
go canada!
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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:34 pm

sorry for the typos!
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Arsenal@LHR
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:55 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:13 pm

I desperately hope United survives, on my sole flight that i had with UA, it was a memorable experience for me. Forget the grudges and poor inflight service, we're talking about the second largest and one of the most important airlines in the world! Plus, bankruptcy doesn't happen overnight, it takes a long time to fade away, buty i hope this isn't the case. Have faith.

Arsenal@LHR
In Arsene we trust!!
 
bucky707
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 2:01 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:24 pm

**Plus, bankruptcy doesn't happen overnight, it takes a long time to fade away, buty i hope this isn't the case.**

Actually, Bankruptcy can happen overnight. But, getting to the point where you shut down, that can take a long time.
 
9V-SPF
Posts: 1340
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:42 pm

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:27 pm

I´m booked on several Unied flights in September. Do I have to be worried or will they keep on flying for some time, no matter if they file for bankruptcy or not?

Daniel
 
KWSea
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RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:30 pm

As much as it would be a disaster, I cannot see how UA can survive without bankruptcy. It's labor costs are too high and the fares are too low. But people here have come to expect these cheap rates and even the businessman won't pay the high prices they were charging. It is simply impossible for it to make money. Bankruptcy is inevitable.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:33 pm

Yeah that's what i meant, if UA were to go bankrupt totally where business completely stops, then that takes quite some time, specially a large organisation like UAL.

In Arsene we trust!!
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:26 am

wouldnt bankruptcy ruin their reputation?
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:30 am

How much time did it take to Pan Am to go banckrupt and suspend all operations? How much did it take for Eastern? I don't know, but if you do, add it seven times and that'd be United's time.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:59 am

United will probably be a long-term survivor, although a trip through bankruptcy almost certainly be required. United's route system is very strong, centered around well-developed hubs at important airports. UA will probably have to "de-peak" ORD and DEN the way AA is doing with ORD and DFW, in order to more efficiently make use of employees and have less down-time. But the hubs themselves will remain, in smaller size.

The silver lining is that de-peaking by both of ORD's major hub carriers should help congestion there, and UA/ AA pax will face fewer delays. The Northwest-suburban NIMBYs have the upper hand in court right now, and the Daley-Ryan reconfiguration plan is in real danger.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not inclined to "pee on the grave" of any airline. Yes, we'll lose at least one Cartel-network carrier--US for sure, and an outside (very small) chance we may lose UA. Disruption is always painful to those involved, even if it is economically necessary for the health of the industry.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
ual777contrail
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:23 am

go canada,
would it hurt there rep?

ask CO they have filed like 20 times in there career.

UNITED will survive.



ual 777 contrail
 
Matt D
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RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:42 am

Comparing Eastern and Pan Am to UA and US is a bit unfair. First, it can be argued that Pan Am I's demise can be traced all the way back to 1966-when they bought an insane number of 747's off the drawing board. So Pan Am arguably took about 25 years. Plus there was the no domestic route system and then the takeover of the original National that they paid WAAAYYY too much for, when in the newly deregulated industry, they could've built up at a fraction of the cost. Then there was the failure to upgrade their fleets, and finally when their "enhanced state of the art" security system blew up in their face in the form of Lockerbie, well that was the final nail in a very slowly built coffin.

Looking at Eastern, Depending on your point of view, its demise can be pegged on one of two things (most likely IMO a combination of both)

Some people lay the death of Eastern squarely and entirely at the feet of one Frank Lorenzo and his "wreckless hard headedness".

Others will argue that the Unions basically priced themselves out of business making unrealistic demands for high wages and low productivity in a recession and period of high and unstable fuel prices (the pending Gulf War).

You know how things go: There's the Unions side. There's Lorenzo's side. And then there's the truth.

None of this really applies to UA and US.

 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: United: Dying Or Survivour?

Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:47 am

Eastern went into Bankruptcy in the Summer of '89, their last flight was December '91 or January '92.

Pan Am filed in '90 and closed it's doors in the Spring of '91 or '92 after DL refused to pump anymore money into the "new" Pan Am operating out of Miami.

CO went into bankruptcy only twice, but the hard work of it's employees and fantastic leadership fro Gordon Bethune, Greg Brennenman, Larry Kelher and David Siegal hepled them go from "worst to First".

The biggest problem for UAL is they lack strong leadership, someone has to make the tough decisions. Leading by committee is not going to work.

I think UAL will declar bankruptcy and emerge a leaner ,meaner , better comapany. IF...

If they can find a strong leader, FAST!.

I wonder how much money UAL could throw at Robert Crandall, and if he would come out of retirement to save AA's biggest competitor.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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