BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
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What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sat Aug 17, 2002 11:39 pm

Is it true that Boeing is sending 3 717s to NWA to "Try" them out. I have heard from many people but I am starting a thread on it to get some "direct" answers.
Puhdiddle
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sat Aug 17, 2002 11:46 pm

Supposely, this is true...unofficially. It has not been confirmed thru Boeing or Northwest. For one, I've love to see NW get at least 100 717s in their fleet. The DC-9s simply won't last forever, no matter how well-maintained they are. So, to answer the topic's question...we'll have to wait & see. And keep our fingers crossed.  Wink/being sarcastic Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
5280AGL
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sat Aug 17, 2002 11:59 pm

The 717 seems like an odd fit for NWA. It would make more sense to keep everything A318/A319/A320, instead of throwing in another type. I thought it was a goal of NWA to eventually have complete fleet commonality among their narrowbodies?
 
CF-CPI
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:39 am

This would be an interesting development. I had the impression that NW did give it a serious look back when it was the MD-95, and decided that revamping their existing DC-9 fleet was a better move than acquiring new aircraft at a higher cost. Are they having a change of heart ..... and is Boeing more willing to 'deal' in the present business climate?
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:40 am

CF-CPI: NW is going to slowly phase out the 9s soon as they hit 100,000 cycles. They will need a replacement at that time.

I think that the 717 would be the better option. It costs less overall than the A318 on the DC9 routes that are flown. The A318 and 736 are too heavy to do the job.
 
CF-CPI
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 2:17 am

Lowfareair, do you know when these -9s are likely to hit 100,000 cycles, on average? When the DC-9s were upgraded (around 1995) they were talking about getting an extra 15 years out of them, which would put them almost 1/2 way though that period. Is there any need to make a decision within the next year or two?

I agree that the NW 717 makes sense. Anecdotal evidence suggests that it is more efficient on short routes than the 737-600 and the planned A318. I'm also told that MDC did a much better job on the systems and electronics than they did with the MD-90 and MD-11. It deserves a lucky break and I hope someday that AA will see the light and return to it if economic circumstances allow.
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:04 am

>>Anecdotal evidence suggests that it is more efficient on short routes than the 737-600 and the planned A318.<<

Not just anecdotal, hard evidence has shown it. For example, it burns less fuel than the 736. It weighs less, so the landing fees cost less. Both of these facts contribute to a good part of the savings, as fuel consumption is high during t/o, and it is supposed to fly 7-10 flights/day.
 
747-451
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:12 am

The 717 would be a good fit, and an good alternative to RJ's and a more exact replacement for the DC9-15
 
JAL
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 5:31 am

I would love to see NW replace their DC-9 with 717!!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
cloudy
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:48 am

I wonder if there is any backroom dealing going on between Northwest, Boeing, and Airtran? I am sure Airtran would like them to get the 717 to secure the future of the line and bring down costs. Perhaps an agreement to stay out of certain markets?
An offer to share operational knowledge regarding the 717? Even a codeshare out of ATL and MSP or Memphis?

Just pure speculation- I havnt heard a thing. But these two carriers seem well positioned for some sort of partnership, especially if NW orders the 717. Remember, Airtran does have business class...
 
cloudy
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 10:16 am

What about the possibility of a "regional" type replacement for the DC9, perhaps one of Embraer's new jets? Or the Fairchild-Dornier competitor, if someone can buy them out and complete the program?
 
tzMSP
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 10:22 am

The only reason I remain speculative about this is that NW has openly said that it is not impressed with the 717s and NW claims that their DC9s have a better dispatch rate than the 717s.

Given the price tag of adding another Boeing as opposed to continuing ahead with their A319/A320 options (or opting for A318s) I still see this as unlikely.

Though I think if there is such a deal where they could try three B717s for little/no cost, they'd be fools not to take the money and run.

The Boeing stock could use the boost, as well, as NW is a stong Airbus customer...

Just my thoughts...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy tzMSP
 
azjubilee
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 10:33 am

NW is also a STRONG Boeing customer and has been throughout its 75 year history. Remember they do operate 36 747s and 58 757s, with at least 15 still on order. NW is not interested in being an Airbus or Boeing exclusive customer. They are interested in operating a/c that will serve the route structure the best with low operational costs. This will then maximize profits. They are in business to make mone, not in the business of getting in bed with any particular manufacturer, like their partners at CO are. The first 75 DC9s, when they reach their 100,000 cycle limit are being replaced by the 319/320. This was straight from Andersons mouth. There hasn't been much discussion about the remaining a/c. The 717 might be a good option, for its costs and weight. The 318 while common with the 319 and 320 might be to heavy to prove economical for the short hops that NW uses the 9s for. With over 120 CRJs on order/option this could be the answer to everyones questions as to what will replace the DC9s. Or it could just mean massive airlink expansion... can we say LAX and BOS?



AZJ
 
tzMSP
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 10:38 am

AZJ:

Sorry, I did not mean to insinuate that NW is in bed with Airbus. In fact, I think NW to be a very bottom-line based airline. They are indeed strong Boeing customers in the 757 and 747 class; I feel one of the main reasons they have opted for the Airbus line is the price tag. They are a very fiscally conservative airline; but I do agree their decisions are based on feduciary, not political matters.

tzMSP
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:09 pm

If I were looking for a 100 seat aircraft right now, I'd look to Texas and Virginia. There are 74 confirmed and 40 likely low time/cycle F-100s available.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 2:57 pm

>>NW has openly said that it is not impressed with the 717s and NW claims that their DC9s have a better dispatch rate than the 717s.<<

1)What is their ratio of spares/scheduled DC9s in the fleet

2)What is their average utilization of the DC9s when compared to the B717s at AirTran?
 
717fan
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sun Aug 18, 2002 7:15 pm

NW has never said that they are not impressed with the 717. They said only that the dispatch rate of their DC-9's is better that on Airtran's 717...

I have also heard that Boeing is trying to "sell/donate" 3 717's to NWA. This could be true or not, we will see.
According to Boeing Capital's website only 3 of the former TWA 717's are available as of now. So the number is correct....
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 12:20 am

If I were looking for a 100 seat aircraft right now, I'd look to Texas and Virginia. There are 74 confirmed and 40 likely low time/cycle F-100s available.

Uh... I do not think there is a chance in hell NWA would want some F-100s. If I were looking for a 100 seat Aircraft right now, The 717 is the most comfortable and spacious choice right now. Those 90 seat RJs have got to be CRAMPED.
Puhdiddle
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 1:11 am

There's also no way Boeing will "donate" a multi-million dollar a/c to NW. Maybe they'll let NW trial it for a short period but not outright give it to them. The other airlines with far more orders placed with Boeing would go nuts and Boeing wouldn't risk alienating their other customers nor sacrifice themselves to similar schemes in the future.
 
AA717driver
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 1:27 am

Sure, the 717 has a lower dispatch rate than the -9, it's a lot more complex and is a new airplane. The question should be, "does it have a lower dispatch rate than the Airbus?".

Also, a not-so-insignificant cost is training. All the -9 pilots can be transitioned to the 717 with a 7-day training course and minimal line training.
The bus or F100 would take the usual 5-6 weeks.TC
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Alaskaairlines
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 2:08 am

What type of CRJ's does NWA have on order? Any -900's?

Hows it going Azj? Haven't talked to you in a while, still FO on the avro? Upgrading anytime soon? Hows the aviation industry after 9/11, are they getting better?

-Dmitry
 
717fan
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 2:33 am

If NWA is so happy with its DC-9's (what really must be the case!), it would be logical to buy a NEW DC-9 called 717....
Perhaps it will be "political" Airbus or Boeing order.....
 
sllevin
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 3:10 am

The F-100 concept is interesting only because the purchase costs would be very low (appealing to NW), the airframes young (appealing) and the plane was really designed for short-haul operations -- really just a large RJ.

That said, the maintenance questions around the F-100 aren't known; while AA talked about them in their retirement statement, OTOH, that was also a PR release to the masses, where it would be a lot harder to explain pay rates, etc.

The basic issue remains that NW has repeated stated that the aircraft acquisition costs far outweigh the reduced operating costs. If the F-100's can be maintained and dispatched for a reasonable cost, then the acquisition cost, which will be near zero, makes them an attractive option.

Steve
 
dutchjet
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 6:14 am

I dont expect that NW would be interested in the F100s that AA and US are putting to rest; the F100 is out of production and would not offer much of an advantage over NW's old but updated DC9S aircraft.

Concerning Boeing lending NW a couple of 717s to try them out, it would not be the first time that a manufacturer tried this technique, and many times it has been successful.

Us older guys remember the following deals:

1. McD Douglas offered both TWA and AA MD80s to try out on no-risk leases, I beleive that each carrier got the first 15 MD80s for minimal payments and could return the aircraft at any time.....well, both became huge MD80 customers (AA acquired something like 240 of the type, excluding those inherited though mergers, and TWA had a large MD80 fleet, and kept the line open at the end, buying more and more MD80s when other airlines looked to other types).

2. Airbus let Eastern try out 4 A300B4, free of charge, for a winter season back in 1978 I believe......EA flew the aircraft on its busy JFK and EWR to PBI, FLL and MIA routes and went on to buy about 30 of the type, this was Airbus' way of getting into the US market.

The 717 would be ideal for NW.....an advanced update of the DC9, it is really the best choice to replace the DC9-30s on short high-frequency routes out of NW's hubs. NW already has many A319s for thin, longer routes.....and the A318 (like the 736) is too much airplane for rapid segments of 45 to 90 minutes; while its logical that the A319 will replace the DC9-50, the 717 would be a great choice for the DC9S routes, of course, the common cockpit issue arrises, but the potential 717 fleet would be between 50 and 100 aircraft so it could have dedicated crew with any financial implication. Lets see what happens.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 12:16 pm

Well my original post was a bit tongue in cheek. But the F-100 would have an acquistion cost some 60% lower than a new 717. This would make the 5-6 week transition for pilots worthwhile. As for maintanance cost, it's a Fokker. 'Nuff said.

The other Steve.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
sllevin
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 4:49 pm

Don't get me wrong, I do indeed think that NW going with the F-100's is very unlikely. Not totally impossible, should they decide to do it, but not a likely path.

Maybe NW will just start picking up more (newer) DC-9's. Although if they were going to do that I would imagine they would have gone after the -32's that US retired (all of which I believe now have flown off to new owners).

Here's what I see as possibilities, ranked in likelyhood of happening:

1) Nothing. The oldest DC-9's are retired. NW has already said they were going to slowly reduce the "DC-9 role" to 100 aircraft, so they can afford to retire some 55 aircraft before having to worry about it, and then they could...

2) Buy some lower-time DC-9's from other airlines to fill the gap

3) Go with deeper fleet rationalization and operate the A318. Perhaps for a 100+ aircraft order Airbus will build a A318 "short range" which would help close some of the operating cost gap.

4) Purchase the 717

5) Purchase the EMB-190 or other "uber-RJ" stratch machine.

6) Purchase MD-80's from CO or DL, which are looking to go all-Boeing, and really all 737 in narrowbody. Sure, they are bigger than what NW needs, but they should have a decent balance of purchase cost and operating costs.

7) Purchase the F-100's

This Steve  Smile
 
qatarairways
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:15 pm

BR715-A1-30 said:
"Those 90 seat RJs have got to be CRAMPED."



Well the CRJ's are cramped but the EMB-170/-175/-190/-195 are not. They have the widest seats in Y-class of any narrowbody, about the same width as the B777 in 9 abreast configuration. The Embraers are also very light in porportion to their size and are well known to be hardy aircraft with low maintanence costs. The aircraft also has incredible performance stats which are not what you would expect from an RJ.

Here is a photo of the EMB-170's interior which looks surprisingly roomy.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mariusz Siecinski





Has NW actually ever looked at the 70-110 seater Regional Jets? The DC9-50's could be replaced by more A319's and the smaller DC9's could be replaced by the RJ's? The problem I see with the 717-200 is that it is a single variant type and not a family. If NW goes for the EMB's then they will have a family aircraft that fills the capacity gap between the CRJ's and the A319's that the DC9 already fills.

 
azjubilee
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 12:48 am

As mentioned before - on a very similar thread this last week, NW is not interested in making "political" deals with Boeing or Airbus. If the 318 proves the most economical airplane for the second bactch of DC9s to be replaced, then they'll go for that. Same is true for the 717 or any other contender out there. NW isn't interested in political games, they're interested in operating efficiently so in turn adding to the bottom line. After all, NW is a business and is out to make money.

NW is in the business with a 70 seat RJ - in fact they were the first. The Avro, due to scope retraints is limited to 69 seats. It then turns out that there are 16 FC seats and 53 coach seats, providing the public with the only RJ (if you realy consider the Avro and RJ) with FC and the roomiest coach in the NW fleet. The avro is deployed on routes and segments that can warrant the extra seats that the saabs and the CRJs can't offer.

AlaskaAirlines - NW only has 50 seat and 44 seat CRJs on order at this point. Unless the NW pilot contract allows flexibility on 50+ seat a/c (the Avros were grandfathered into their 1998 post strike contract - which calls for Mesaba pilots only to fly the Avros) there won't be any RJ larger than 50 seatson the property. If there are, then they'll go to mainline, no Pinnacle or Mesaba or the dreaded and threatend 3rd airlink carrier. As for me, still going to work and loving the job but hating the politics and whipsawing currently taking place. Since Mesaba is not growing right now, during our contract negotiations there is no movement. The only movement is the few captains leaving for other jobs and the few FOs that are sick and tired of the B.S. and are jumping ship to other small airlines, that are growing. Pinnacle is seeing all the NW love right now receiving at least 2 CRJs a month and continuing to replace saabs on many routes. As for an upgrade, I have to wait for at least 300 more Fos to upgrade before me, so I'll be an FO for a very long time. At least until we start growing again... which won't happen until our contract is settled, which won't happen until the mgmt gets off their butts and in good faith, shows up to the bargaining table. So, while morale is low at Mesaba, the pilot group is full of great integrety and continue provide the company in acheiving some of the highest ontime and completion factor statisitcs in the industry while doing it safely without incident or accident. But do the pilots see any of the bonus' that EVERYONE else in the company sees? Noooo... but that's a different story. So to answer your question - again, I love my job but hate the politics and whipsawing involved. The company will be an even better place to be at once we get the contract we deserve. This way a lot of FOs can quit their second jobs, get off foodstamps and stop living off credit cards.

AZJ
 
AA717driver
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:09 am

AZJ--I didn't know you were at Mesaba. I have flown with a few ex-Mesaba people at TWA--great guys!

Don't let the bastards get you down. This cycle will pass just like the others and you will be on your way. I've got a friend at NW who was stranded at one of USAir's commuters. He finally got on at NW with 6000 hours of SD360 time! Talk about punishment...TC
FL450, M.85
 
acidradio
Crew
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:24 am

AZJ: I can assure you that the whopping $225 bonus check I got last time is not very fair payment considering how much I bust my ass at that place and how much shredded fiberglass is probably embedded in my shins by now from the bins of countless Avros  Nuts
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
azjubilee
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 2:31 am

Acidradio - yes, the $300 bonus before taxes isn't much, but at least you're getting them. At least you're receiving recognition for the hard work that is done by your work group and at least you get that in the form of pizza parties, ice cream parties and in the case of the mechanics, steak dinner parties. Our recognition comes in the form of blatant lies, insults, mudslinging and threats. Do you know how much the bonusses would make a difference in the monthly income of many of the FOs? It boils down to principle. Remove the monetary value of the bonus and look at the bonus program in general. All employee groups except the pilots are eligable for the ontime/completion factor bonus as well as the safety bonus. The pilots control nearly 100% of the ontime departure and arrival. Do you know how many times the capt releases the brake with the door closed to get the flight out ontime when the rampies aren't done loading, getting the appropriate equipment out the way or assembling for wing walking? Do you know how many times we've sacrificed catering to get the flight out on time? Rampies and the agents have the next biggest role in getting the flight out ontime or even blocked in ontime. But the ultimate control is in the park brake on the avro and the Fo calling in the times on the saab. But, we don't get any of the bonus... hmmm... sounds fishy. I don't doubt the worthiness of the bonusses going to the rampies and agents. Don't look a gifthorse in the mouth and complain about free money. But when the GO personnel are eligable for bonusses for work they have no direct involvment in, that is a slap in the face for the people on the front lines. Even you guys should be angry with that!! Your bonus would be larger.

This isn't a thread to debate the Mesaba policies on emplyee bonusses. That should be hashed out on the mesaba employee boards. But this is a thread that has everything to do with the future of the NW small jet fleet, of which we are directly involved with.

AA717 driver - good to hear you like some of the ex XJ dudes. The people at XJ are its best asset and there are some really awesome people working here. There is great solidarity within the pilot group and while it is hard to hear press releases about "upgraded jet service" with a CRJ that replaced a saab, we will prevail. It's also hard to read press releases regarding Pinnacles exponential increases in ASMs and load factors, then read Mesaba press relase regarding decreased load factors and ASMs. All the while making XJ look like a failing company without the REAL explaination. It is our turn to be the brunt of the NW hardball business attitude. XJ mgmt is playing the game well with its company wide threats and mudslinging and insulting proposals. Pinnacle got it when we were getting the avros, it's our turn now. Thanks for the support.

AZJ
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 2:32 am

The ERJ-170 looks very comfortable. I would not mind flying on one myself, but if NWA wants to replace the DC9, The 717 would be the only feasible choice. I have already heard that NWA will not order anymore airbus types than the ones they have on order. I cannot confirm if it is true, but I will leave it up to you guys to speculate upon.
Puhdiddle
 
sllevin
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 11:55 am

BR715: Why would the 717 be the only feasible choice?

After all, the 717 is likely to be a very scarce bird 10 or 15 years from now; while I am sure that Boeing will continue to support it, there are likely to be far more EMB-170/190/XX variants flying.

Steve
 
AerLingus
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 12:52 pm

Selevin: I think the main reason for the 717 choice is that they already have a ton of Boeing jets and I believe this would at least be PARTLY in keeping with NW's philosophy of commonality.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
717fan
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 3:05 pm

By the way, NWA is not the airline with great fleet commonality. And with the recent A330/753 order, this seems not the highest priority of NWA...
 
nwa747-400
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Tue Aug 20, 2002 4:33 pm

Right now the NW fleet is under major renewal...

the enventual NW fleet will be fairly few types

1. 747-400/200
2. A330-300
3. 757-300/200
4. A319/A320
5. DC9s

If they go A318

1. 747-400/200
2. A330-300
3. 757-300/200
4. A318/A319/A320
 
srbmod
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:15 am

AirTran's upper management is made up mostly of ex-Northwest Airlines people, so it would not be surprising if they were trying to influence NWA into getting the 717 and helping them out by getting a large quanity of them.
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:36 am

What about NW going for the A318 with CFM56s? They do operate CFM56 powered A319s & A320s that will give the A318 both engine and cockpit commonality?
 
RJ
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 4:13 am

As far as the F-100 wish is for some people, I believe this excerpt from Aviationnow sums things up:

AMERICAN SAID THE F100 retirement will bring about large savings in maintenance and training expenses. "The Fokker is a small plane with very high operating costs, complicated by the manufacturer's bankruptcy," Carty said. "Its economics simply no longer work for us." Because of the bankruptcy and parts shortages, American has had to manufacture parts for the Fokker 100s as it is permitted to do under its certificate.

I don't think NW would want to get into manufacturing parts for the F-100's. I have also heard that the F-100's need meet an engine containment casing AD in the near future. I have heard that it would cost over a million dollars an aircraft for the fix. Perhaps somebody can clue us in on that development.


Azjubilee,

As a fellow Regional Airline pilot who went through a nasty war with management....................... I Feel Your Pain.............

RJ



 
sllevin
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:12 am

Of course, with CO announcing that it will park 11 more MD-80's, perhaps the concept of just replacing DC-9's with MD-80's will become a reality.

After all, while the MD-80's are bigger, I suspect the cost per mile are about the same, since the MD-80 has the advantage of the -2xx series engines. And the acquisition costs have got to be reasonable.

Maybe I should re-order my list  Smile

Steve
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 2:05 pm

AAghh! I give up. NO, NW will not take the F.28-0100 from either AA or US. It was meant as a joke. The aircraft is awesome, it is efficient and it is a beauty. Sadly it is also an orphan.

NO, NW will not buy the F-100s.

Steve
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
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STT757
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 2:09 pm

Why would NWA want to add M80s to their fleet, they just retired the last of the former Republic M80s from NW's fleet two years ago.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
717fan
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:44 pm

I don't think they will buy used MD-80's. They have a lot of A320 which do the same work as the MD-80 and are by far more ecomonical....
 
travellin'man
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Wed Aug 21, 2002 11:41 pm

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but another reason that NW would go for the 717 is simply that I'm sure that Boeing will give them a sweetheart deal on them, far better than even what AI can offer on the A318. Boeing is dying for a big customer on this jet, and will do anything to make it happen. This too will fit the airline's bottom line.
It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
 
mt99
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:39 am

I thought Boeing was not going to "buy" market share. If they are consitent (which they have been with other initiatives{sarcarsm}) with that philosphy. they will price the 717 at whatever price they need to make a profit and would not give NW a "sweet" deal.. right?

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cv640
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Azjubilee

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:42 am

You heard the Boston and LAX rumor too? That's the latest hot rumor round over here, although I doubt they'll replace Eagle anytime soon. Who knows though, running out of space in all the hubs it seems. Good luck with the negotiations, it does suck to see management dragging their feet as usual. You guys have our support.
 
BR715-A1-30
Topic Author
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:14 am

If NWA gets these 3 "Trial" 717s, and they like them. An order for 100 Aircraft could save the program. (At least for a little while through 2006)... C'mon NWA, We are counting on you. If Someone from AirTran were to go to NWA upper management, you could bet that NWA would have 717s in their fleet in less than a year.
Puhdiddle
 
717fan
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:26 am

I mailed to NWA about this. The answer is: NWA has currently no 717's on order (What we all know). They will discuss that (a possible order) later.
So, no news at all!
 
azjubilee
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Mon Aug 26, 2002 12:39 pm

CV640 - just finished a grueling 6 day (back to back trips) worth 29.5 hours that took me into DTW the last few days. Maybe I saw you? At any rate, I've heard the Eagle contracts are up. But then again I've also heard we're furloughing 200 and major displacements are to be announced this week. I'll believe it when I see it all... Thanks for your support.


AZJ
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: What Is The Story About The NWA 717s?

Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:56 pm

NW has openly said that it is not impressed with the 717s and NW claims that their DC9s have a better dispatch rate than the 717s.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/photorelease/q3/pr_020822g.html

The fleet of Boeing 717-200 jetliners has reached a new one-week high for dispatch reliability, achieving 99.65 percent on 3,721 departures. The previous record was 99.61 percent for the last week of June this year. The 717 achieved a monthly average of 99-plus percent dispatch reliability faster than any competing airplane, demonstrating that it is providing dependable operation for airlines and their passengers. Currently, more than 100 of the quiet, efficient twinjets have been delivered to customers.



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