zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:46 am

With the current econmic troubles of UA and now AA who's showing some problem signs, do you think a airline like NWA might take one of there spots. Granted, UA could easily have to make a huge fleet cut to survive and AA is heading in a troubled direction according to forbes. NW stands as the only airline in decent financial condition that still allows them to grow.

Im not trying to make a UA/AA bashing thread, I just want to hear any ideas.
 
Guest

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:58 am

Southwest or jetBlue is in a better position than NW,CO and even AA. The big 6 will probably have major announcements before the end of this year and WN and JB will keep on truckin without any clitches.

Stephen
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:05 am

That may be true, but history tells a different story with airlines the size of jet blue. As far as WN goes, there not international service as well as route unavailibity. WN doesn't have the money to go international. There good at what they do, and thats about it. Plus, numbers show people don't always want to fly discount carriers.

Actually, NW isn't expected to make cut anoucments anytime soon. NW is in FAR better shape than AA and CO, thanks to the fact that they own a good portion of there planes as well as very conservitive finincial practice.
 
seven_fifty7
Posts: 900
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:07 am

And DL or CO will be there before NW ever will. (Well CO is debatable, but definitely DL). Delta is less-heavily unionized.

Keep dreaming, red birds.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:10 am

Southwest or jetBlue is in a better position than NW,CO and even AA

How can you even compare a two-bit discount startup with under 30 planes to one of the major carriers and still keep a straight face? Get real dude.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:14 am

b747-437b,
people get on this kick with the leather seats and such awesome service that jet blue could ever compete with a major.

and just my opinion,delta will get to the top long before northwest will.dl is a better airline and they have proven that.


ual 777 contrail
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:23 am

people get on this kick with the leather seats and such awesome service that jet blue could ever compete with a major

"Such awesome service"? A one-class product flying transcon with a bag of chips as a miserable excuse for a meal now equals "awesome service". How our standards have fallen.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:37 am

Zues - You're mistaken when you say Southwest doesn't have the money to go international, though it is completely outside their current business plan, which they will stick to and continute to make loads of money off of it. Southwest's current market value is (I believe) equal to that of the Big 6 combined, or something close to it.
 
FutureSQPilot
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:23 pm

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:51 am

Did you forget about a little airline called Delta? DL is expecting to be back in the black by early next year. With many of the top Airlines' CEOs reinforcing predictions of tough times to come, DL is one of the few airlines that has an optimistic outlook on the future...according to Leo "(Delta) will not merely survive, but thrive." I guess we just have to wait and see how much shrinking UA will do if they go ahead and file Ch. 11, but I am guessing that there is a good chance for UA to slip down the list from the #2 spot in the event of a filing for bankruptcy protection.
 
Braniff727
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:57 am

I don't see NW moving to 1 or 2, but 3 after Delta moves to 2.

Although AA is downsizing, it is already so big that the little capacity they are cutting doesn't even begin to fill the gap between 1 and 2.

I also think that UA is going to end up a smaller airline, perhaps 3 or 4. That being said, I think NW and DL are the ones to watch in the coming months / years.
Climbing
 
sccutler
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:05 am

"WN doesn't have the money to go international"

This is the most remarkably mistaken belief.

To expand on the point made by Sjc>sfo, at current stock prices, Southwest is worth $10.75 Billion-with-a-B;

AA, UA, US, DL, AS and HP are worth, in the aggregate, $4.727 Billion; and of that, AA accounts for $1.6Bn and DL accounts for $2.2Bn.

The markets assess UAL as being worth $178 Million (with an M), US is essentially valueless now (natch); Alaska is worth $672 Million and HP rates $77 million.

Bottom line? Southwest could buy all of the "Big" carriers without breaking a financial sweat. Not that they would want to do so.

If WN wanted to fly internationally, you can bet theey'd do it better than the rest, and they'd make more money at it as well. That they choose not to is the result of good sense, not lack of cents.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
sccutler
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:25 am

So, as it stands now, the "Big" family of US carriers is:

1. Southwest
2. Delta
3. American
4. Northwest
5. Continental

???
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
USAirways737
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:58 am

With Northwest's new Detroit terminal and the in-process-of-being-remodeled-MSP, Northwest could very easily imo take the third spot and keep it. Northwest really isn't as bad as they were made out to be a few years ago with that whole winter storm in Detroit thing, where the people had no water and couldn't use the bathrooms. I think its pretty funny now how the first thing NW does now when your flight is delayed is to pour people glasses of water. They along with every other airline have downsides and most are trying to improve themselves, NW is deffinately one of them.

Erik
 
FutureSQPilot
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:23 pm

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:35 am

Sccutler- This conversation is based in figures of size, not worth, in which case I believe the list is:
1. AA
2. UA
3. DL
4. NW
5. CO
 
zeus01
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:06 am

RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:15 am

Yea, I forgot about DL. Excuse my mistake. Now, to say that DL has proven a better airline all around, well, your just a idiot when you say that. NW is in the black, DL isn't. NW has been in better financial shape than DL for years. Now, because of DL's fleet size, we may see them slide into 1 or 2. But, Id still put a bid DL and NW will wind up in the top three (with DL moving hire than its current 3rd place.)


And no, WN doens't have the assests to go international. Net worth doesn't equal liquidity, duh. It costs exuberant amounts of money to operate a Intl. route, along with aquireing planes, not to mention WN would have to upgrade its poor excuse for service.
 
milemaster
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:20 am

You're being a tool Zeus.
 
artsyman
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:38 am

NW isn't expected to make cut anoucments anytime soon...

actually NW announced major capacity cuts along with the others this week

Jer
 
ScottB
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:19 am

The answer is simply NO.

Delta *is* a stronger airline all around than Northwest. While NWA does own many of its aircraft, most of the owned aircraft have little to no value and will have to be replaced in the next several years. While Northwest enjoys a healthy cash position, it also has a negative book value (debt > assets). Aside from that cash position, Northwest is close to fully leveraged at this point. NWAC's market cap is also roughly 1/3 that of Delta's. Delta has been historically one of the strongest carriers financially; Northwest certainly has not and teetered on the edge of bankruptcy just a few years ago. Even AMR has a cash position comparable to Northwest and has far more valuable assets in the way of owned aircraft.

Moreover, Northwest will never (barring a merger with another airline) have the hubs to be one of the top two or three airlines. MEM is the weakest (by passenger traffic) major airline hub, bar none. DTW and MSP are middle-of-the road for traffic, and likely will never be as strong as markets like ORD, ATL, DFW, EWR, LAX, SFO, DEN, BOS, etc. Delta generates as much O&D revenue at ATL and LGA (let alone CVG, DFW, SLC, MCO, BOS, etc.) as Northwest generates at its three hubs combined. Northwest's greatest strength (in my opinion) is that it simply faces limited competition in its core markets at present.

Why on Earth would WN have any desire to operate international service? They specialize in reliable, low-cost short-haul domestic service (with a slowly increasing percentage of medium-to-long-haul sevice in recent years). They know what makes money for them, and they do it. And their market cap currently is roughly twice that of the other majors COMBINED. Maybe that's because they're one of the few airlines actually making a profit. They have $2.1 billion in cash, the lowest debt-equity ratio in the industry, and a book value of over $4 billion. They certainly have the financial wherewithal to operate international service (after all, they could simply BUY United using their cash on hand at present -- but who would want to?). The fact still remains that there's no reason for WN to begin international service; there are simply too many untapped opportunities in the domestic market to exploit first.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:21 am

Here's some no-so-good news for NWA. On the frontpage of today's Detroit News, it states that 2 German banks have backed out of their bonds financing the new terminal at DTW. The airport has 2 weeks to find new backers, put the whole airport commission is a mess right now from all the corruption and the attempts to change the whole way the airport is managed. If no backing is found by Sept 8th, the bonds have to be paid back at $25 Million a year, and NWA bears 75% of those cost.

http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/metro/0208/21/a01-567417.htm

I'm not really the best finanicial guy, so if someone can intrept this better, please do.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 7:57 am

sccutler,
UNITED'S assets are worth 3.8 billion and not including cash that they are burning right now.
UNITED owns the majority of there 777 fleet and alot of 747's.

that doesnt equal 123million.


ual 777 contrail
 
sccutler
Posts: 5581
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:57 am

Simple equation-

Take shares outstanding, multiply by price per share, and you get market capitalization (or "market cap," as it is flippantly known).

That's what a publicly-traded corporation is worth.

If United could simply disregard its liabilities (debt and long-term obligations), then that asset number ual777 cites would mean something.

Of course, that figure does hold the nugget of UAL's salvation- it will file chpt 11, and all those unencumbered assets will be a fine way of moving forward, especially after essentially extinguishing the value of shareholders (including all the UAL employee-owners).
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
ScottB
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 9:05 am

Ual777contrail-

Problem is, United has almost $7.6 billion in current liabilities, $7.2 billion in long-term debt, $1.9 billion in lease obligations, and $3.9 billion in pension/benefit liability. And many of those 747-400's parked in the desert would be tough to sell off right now.
 
kwbl
Posts: 425
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 9:19 am

I would agree that DL would be in position before NW however with DL tremendous weakness in Asia, I do not believe they can ever be number 1 in terms of size. NW does have a strong advantage in the Pacific but are not large enough across the Atlantic and the hubs, though decent (MEM not included) they are not ATL, LAX, ORD, JFK etc.....
 
MCOtoATL
Posts: 448
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:37 am

It seems as if we are judgin "on top" to mean "the biggest." That may be a good measure of success, but for most investors, they want to see a high stock price. Most of the major airlines have fallen drastically, while Southwest has done fairly well.
 
Bjones
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:45 am

Sccutler,

AA, UA, US, DL, AS and HP are worth, in the aggregate, $4.727 Billion

......Bottom line? Southwest could buy all of the "Big" carriers without breaking a financial sweat.

Southwest doesn't have almost 5 billion dollars sitting around to buy other airlines with. And they certainly wouldn't want to borrow it either. Just because their stock is worth over 10 billion doesn't mean they have the money to swallow up the big carriers. They would have the ability to buy a major carrier, but not a bunch of them. That being said Southwest is in excellent financial condition and as you mentioned probably would have no desire to buy one of the the majors.
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:46 am

**Northwest really isn't as bad as they were made out to be a few years ago with that whole winter storm in Detroit thing, where the people had no water and couldn't use the bathrooms. **

People still can't use the bathrooms at the new Midfield Terminal at DTW because those goddamn scab Coyotte Cleaners always shuts them down before every international flight arrives so they won't have to clean up after the passengers because they are all ghetto and lazy.
 
heedera380
Posts: 149
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:43 am

Zeus -- have you ever flown WN? I was just wondering because of your remark that "WN would have to upgrade its poor excuse for service."

Obviously, if an airline wants to attract the kind of pax who pay $7000 for a first class ticket, WN would have to put a little more effort into their seating arrangement and food selection. But for people who want to get somewhere quickly, and who don't have a need to feel as though they are being pampered, WN's service is fine. I've flown with them multiple times, and I don't feel that their service is "poor." The FAs have always been friendly and personable, perhaps on average even more than other airlines' FAs. The pilots are funny -- at least one has a train whistle in the cockpit that he blows just before takeoff; another has a decent Porky Pig impression that he shares with the pax.

Bottom line: WN does a great job with what they've got, and it shows through the success they've achieved. They've made air travel a lot more accessible to people who ordinarily wouldn't be able to afford a ticket on most carriers. (I mention this only because I've seen more larger families traveling on WN than I have on CO, America West, etc. )

Some people may call their service an example of getting what you pay for, and they'd be right. When I can have any seat I want on an airplane for $34 round-trip, I don't go into the experience expecting cloth napkins and 4-star restaurant meals. Sure, there are peanut crumbs and gum wrappers on the floor. But I get there just the same, and usually with no more food and/or beverage than I would get on any other flight of the same length. And when its over, I'm happy that I didn't have to pay at least twice as much to get there.

Sorry, I just get tired of seeing people diss a certain airline, when most of the time I have a feeling that they have never even flown them.  Smile
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:53 am

heedera380,
why would you DISS someone if they have flown WN and still didnt like them,have you flown all the majors?
and you speech is well and fine,your outlook is very diffrent from the rest in respect to the way we travel.
you say gum rappers on the ground and crumbs dont bother you? only because you payed $34.00 one way?

and the pilots who should be a carnival act are flying your planes,i think that WN provides a good service, and they are doing stuff right.but they are a cheesy low fare carrier that we have all grown to expect this kind of service from.there are so many out there who love WN,not me i like the classy cartel carriers that provide real service.
and who do i think will be on top if it isnt AA,or UA? i still say DELTA.

ual 777 contrail
 
tzMSP
Posts: 133
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:57 am

Ual777Contrail:

and just my opinion,delta will get to the top long before northwest will.dl is a better airline and they have proven that

No offense, but that's just a ridiculous generalisation.

NW pioneered the alliance/codeshare system (KL/NW/CO) as we know it and used it to make worldwide travel truly seamless. NW may have aging planes, but they're paid for, and they are running a profit the last two months, which is something most carriers cannot say. We compete with NW all the time, but anyone who simply thinks that the red birds need keep on dreaming better wake up and realise that NW time has yet to come.

And besides, though I think DL to be a fine airline, for god sakes will they just paint their friggin' planes already? They are one of the only domestic carriers that still has 3 paint schemes in use. Get it together, for Christs' sake.

Also, if CO can really buckle down costs, I think we've yet to see the best of them as well.

tzMSP
 
FutureSQPilot
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 11:57 am

Considering the topic, the WN debate should really be dropped. Talking about WN going intl is like talking about Taco Bell serving fine wines...its not part of their business model and its not going to happen. Obviously Zeus01 wasn't asking his question in terms of Market cap...so can you please stick with the fact that DL and NW ARE larger companies than WN, and they are in better position to bump UA down a bit on the list of the top 5 carriers.
 
ScottB
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:21 pm

Actually, I don't agree that NW is in a better position to overtake UA in the list of the top X carriers, even though they currently (as of July) generated 61% more RPM's on 47% more ASM's than WN. Why? Compare the numbers for July, 1998 to July, 2002. In 7/98, WN generated 2.997 billion RPM's and 4.100 billion ASM's, while NW generated 6.838 billion RPM's and 8.810 ASM's. In 7/02, WN generated 4.327 billion RPM's and 5.911 billion ASM's (both up 44%) while NW generated 6.982 billion RPM's (up 2.1%) and 8.668 billion ASM's (DOWN 1.6%). To put it another way, NW was 128% larger (based on RPM's) than WN four years ago.

And it is likely that WN will continue to grow far faster than the other network carriers for the next several years. After all, they do have roughly 120 737-700's on order, options for 80 or so, and purchase rights for another 170 in the next decade.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 12:37 pm

TzMSP,

Hate to diss my fellow Minnesotans on airliners.net, but PLEASE!
Delta is a bad airline because they don't paint their planes in a single paint job? That's ridiculous to say the least! Sure NW pioneered the strong alliances that airlines today are all involved in, but Delta is overall better recognised and in a better business position. Remember back in the early 90s' when Minnesota bailed NW out? They have a lot of debt to deal with. And NW's constant labor issues that are always talked about here in the Twin Cities, they are not over, NW still has a few issues to take care of. They really will never be the #1 US carrier unless a takeover occurs. MSP, DTW, and MEM can only grow so much. NW has NO East-West service like AA,UA, DL, CO, and US. They just don't meet the requirements to be the world's largest carrier, as they exist right now anyway.
 
flyyul
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:52 pm

NW is in a very strong position, and it is one of those that are definitely on the upswing. Northwest has QUALITY hubs in Detroit and Minneapolis which provide service to just about anywhere on the continent, and when the Asian upswing commences, NW will be one of the first to reap the benefits.

As long as NW keeps its alliance with CO and KL, they will up there. For those that think DTW isnt a key player, are simply wrong. DTW is a huge hub only giving way to more room. The DTW midfield terminal is one of the most advanced in North America and the world, and continuously ranks up there in customer satisfaction. As a CSA at YUL, all you here is the wonders from the pax who makes transfers there. In Montreal, the new Detroit terminal has helped us secure contracts from Canadian companies such as Pratt & Whitney Canada to Seattle, CAE to Memphis, and Cirque du Soleil... All in one year, all of which have abandoned AC/UA ord's contract.

Mark
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:03 pm

Yep it's true that WN is not very big. Except that if you took the international routes and PAX off AA, DL, UA, CO and NW WN would be a bigger carrier in every respect. I didn;t include US because WN is bigger anyway except in number of planes.

WN is so hated by people I know that they always fly it if given a choice and I'm talking about some rather well off people. I have no experience with JetBlue but I imagine they have the same crappy service as WN.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

BTW, why would a person want leather seats? I guess living in the desert has made me a bit leery, they are very uncomfortable in cars when it's 110 out.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
sllevin
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:43 pm

Just as a side note:

A company's "market cap" (which is the amount of money it would cost to purchase every share of its stock at the current price) can very easily be less than the value of the companies net assets. Such cases occur most often when a company has assets but is losing money and the prospects for halting the losses appear dim -- such that in the near future, the net assets will be diminished.

Also, from a practical standpoint, few publically traded companies can be or are purchased for their cap, as the mere act of someone purchasing large amounts of stock in a company drives the price higher.

Finally, purchases of companies by other companies can, as is, done all the time without cash. In fact, cash-only transactions are fairly rare. Typically c company uses its own stock to purchase another company.

For example (and I am pulling numbers out of the sky for the sake of example), let's say Southwest Airlines has a market cap of 10 billion dollars. Probably only 3 or 4 billion of that figure is in publically held stock, the company actually "owns" the balance itself (in stock that's never been released). Southwest could then offer to give every shareholder at Northwest $1.25 in Southwest stock for everyh $1.00 in Northwest stock they hand over (that 25% is a premium which typically has to be offered since, as previously mentioned, the act of wanting to buy a company drives the share price up).

Steve
 
User avatar
RayChuang
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 9:59 pm

I think DL is about to become a much more important player, especially with the financial difficulties at US and UA.

For one thing, DL has powerful hubs at ATL and CVG, and DL's decision not to phase down SLC as a hub may prove to be a boon for the airline. DL also has this big moneymaker as part of the BOS-LGA-DCA shuttle route, and if DL does merge with AS (something that is very possible due to heavy fleet commonality between DL and AS), DL gains major access to SEA, SFO and LAX, which could give DL a big opening to fly across the Pacific in case UA is forced to cut back their transpacific flights for financial reasons. Also, DL has a pretty large presence at JFK, and DL could uprate JFK into a hub of sorts.

In short, DL's loyal customer base and plentiful cash-cow routes could make them not only a survivor, but a power presence in the US airline market in a few years.
 
Braniff727
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:02 pm

Ok,

So the question here is not "If NW was in the same financial state as it was in the early '90's, would..." or "If NW had labor disputes going on, would..."

EVERY airline has had it's problems. Some are in the past, and some are right now. Currently, NW is NOT in need of a bailout by the State of Minnesota. It is NOT having labor disputes.

What happened several years ago happened and is having little or no effect on the company right now.

A point that I think is valid is that NW does lack E-W service. Sure you can connect, but business travelers would rather go non-stop. Another point is their Asia service. The Asian economy is on the upswing, and with NW's huge presence and trans-Pac service, they are going to make out well there.

While it's true that DTW and MSP will probably never see the amount of traffic that the NYC trio, Chicago and Dallas see, DTW and MSP will also probably never see the delays, the congestions and the frustrated travelers that have to walk 7 miles to get to a different concourse, through 17 security checkpoints, then have a delay because they are number 256 to take off.

That is something that will work very well for NW's advantage. I hear scores of people that would rather take Grayhound than go through the ORDeal of Chicago. I'm one of them.

Just some more thoughts, but I still don't see NW moving any higher than #3 for now.
Climbing
 
na
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:26 pm

Scottb,
there are not "many UA -744s parked in the desert". There were never more than 6 parked at a time, and these days UA is returning them into service (as I heard two weeks ago).
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:56 pm

an interesting graph appears in this morning's Philadelphia Inquirer. It shows each airline's debt to equity ratio and the "healthy" NW comes in second, behind the bankrupt US Airways

1. US 141 %
2. NW 106%
3. CO 94%
4. UA 88%
5. DL 82%
6. AA 80%
7. SW 24%

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/3914284.htm

Eric

PS. The article doesn't really explain the relevance of this fact...
 
tzMSP
Posts: 133
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RE: Could NWA Wind Up On Top?

Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:17 am

SESGDL:

Hey, I never argued that NW will be on top. I think they've got room to grow, but it was never my contention that they will be on top.

And yeah, pardon me if I think it is ridiculous that a carrier like DL can't get organised enough to paint their fleet to present a uniform business image. It's rather fundamental, actually, and even something Gordon Bethune addressed in his FROM WORST TO FIRST book about reshaping Continental. DL is a GREAT airline, but they need to paint their damned airplanes.

I think I am just tired of hearing that AA and UA will reign supreme. I think the time of major carriers may be coming to an ebb, as some smaller carriers finally seek out certain market niches and capitalise accordingly.

BTW, NW stock has risen over $2.45 in 2 days, which increases MY bottom line.

Now if only ATA could open up some transatlantic routes... or maybe we'll make a hostile takeover of the Canadian domestic market and begin L10 service 8 times a day from Halifax to Vancouver. (That's a joke, eh.)

Nevertheless, I always enjoy reading everything everyone has to say, and learn a lot from you guys everyday. Ciao!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy tzMSP

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