B747-437B
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DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:09 am

Strong rumors over the last few days appear to have reached the ears of the media as well. Delta, Continental and Northwest will initially codeshare on each others domestic routes, followed by a gradual codeshare on international routes that will lead to a more comprehensive alliance also encompassing KLM and the Skyteam carriers.

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020822/1949000875_1.html
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:18 am

WOW!!!! If this passes the regulatory process SkyTeam will surpass both Star and Oneworld.
 
bobcat
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:18 am

For one thing, KLM/NW's World Business Class, CO's BusinessFirst, and DL's BusinessElite products seem like a good fit for each other....
 
bobcat
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:19 am

This may also be good news for folks who have a lot of NW or CO miles... They may no be able to redeem the miles for travel on AF's Concorde.(just like Delta members have been able to do, for 160000 miles)
 
donder10
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:31 am

How many miles do you have to fly to earn a mile?It must be much quicker in First and business but I have no idea about the ratios.
Cheers
 
scottysair
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:28 am

Well, actually that I do use with the skymiles on Delta. This is best airline is Delta. Big grin This is my favorites with one as for myself. So now, I had with 61,875 skymiles as for myself by fly on Delta. Well, goodnight!
 
MD88Captain
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:55 am

Interesting. DAL's pilot union must approve any domestic codeshare agreement and they have not. DAL management is going to brief the DAL MEC at a MEC meeting in the near future on their desire for a domestic codeshare. With 900 furloughed pilots and the prospect of more job losses because of a codeshare the odds are very long on an ALPA approval. And no ALPA OK = No codeshare. I hope Leo has a plan for getting those pilots back to work soon.
 
B747-437B
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:04 am

DAL's pilot union must approve any domestic codeshare agreement and they have not

Not only that, but NWA ALPA also needs to approve the domestic codeshare. CAL ALPA is the only one of the three that doesn't have suych a clause in their contract, but they are up for renegotiation soon too.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jrlander
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:19 am

Of course, the quickest way to get the pilots back into the planes would be to get the company PROFITABLE. If a code-share alliance would help that happen quickly, then Delta could expand its schedule more quickly. CODESHARE AGREEMENT (could =) NO MORE FURLOUGHED PILOTS.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:22 am

It will be interesting to see if Delta ALPA will again demand a voting seat on the company's Board of Directors in exchange for the domestic codeshare or if they'll settle for bringing the currently furloughed pilots back to work.

If DAL and NWA and their respective unions can hash things out, this could be the most comprehensive alliance available to U.S. based flyers.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
jrlander
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:24 am

In all honesty, though, the whole thing could be ( I have no information on this, this is only conjecture ) a way of screwing the UAL/USAirways deal with the regulators. Faced with a two huge codeshare agreements, regulators might just choose to reject both.

 
MD88Captain
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:38 am

I doubt that bringing the furloughees back will be enough. DAL and ALPA will go back to the arbitrator on OCT 31 to decide the questionas to whether Force Majuer still exists. The company is anticipating losing this time for many reasons. The interesting thing is that the arbitrator has said that the all the furloughees will have to be brought back at one time if Force Majuer is over. I think ALPA is anticipating this ruling so it is very possible that the furloughees will be back in some capacity by the end of the year anyway. If they are brought back the company will place them all in the 727 Second Officer position and pay them 65hrs/month to stay home. That's the company's plan anyway.

So my guess is that Leo anticipating losing the arbitrator's decision would love to offer up bringing the furloughees back to get a code share, while ALPA would be looking for more in order to approve the code share. I wonder if Leo might consider a early retirement buy-out since he is looking at paying 900 pilots to sit home. That and some job guarentees combined with his 100 seat airplane plan might sway DAL pilots. The next months are going to be so interesting.
 
cba
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:12 pm

This is great news. Wings and Skyteam need to combine to compete with Star (if United stays afloat) and OneWorld.
 
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OA412
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 12:24 pm

In all honesty, though, the whole thing could be ( I have no information on this, this is only conjecture ) a way of screwing the UAL/USAirways deal with the regulators.

That was my initial reaction as well! So, Sean, or anyone else in the know, how likely is it that this alliance would pass muster with the DOJ? I agree with others here, if this alliance can actually be agreed upon by the unions and approved by the DOJ, it will be the most formidable of the domestic alliances.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 1:25 pm

Wings and Skyteam make a good match. Comprehensive US network with hubs in EWR CLE DTW CVG ATL MEM DFW IAH MSP SLC JFK and major ops at BOS LGA DCA MCO LAX, Euro hubs at AMS CDG MXP FCO PRG, Asia/Pacific hubs at NRT INC (?) GUM, and throw in AM's network for good measure. The question burning in my mind is what will AA do? This would put them in the weakest domestic postion even though individually they are the largest airline in the world...AS and HP perhaps?
Next up: STL-CVG-MKE-MSP-STL.
 
ktliem@YVR
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 1:29 pm

According to AP...

Under terms of the 10-year partnership, which could be announced as soon as Friday, Northwest and Continental would join the SkyTeam alliance, led by Delta and Air France. That could spell the end of the Wings alliance, which Continental and Northwest have formed with Dutch national carrier KLM.

 Crying
 
Guest

RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 1:43 pm

I find that kind of strange. Though CO has extensive european ops, Northwest is much more quite, doing wholesale funneling of passengers through Amsterdam. By giving up the alliance., Northwests route structure would be heavily altered.
 
Leo
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:37 pm

DL/CO/NW/AF/KL/AZ:

This combines the BEST hubs on both sides of the Atlantic and could be an absolute WINNER.

# ATL - new DTW - MSP - CVG - MEM - SEA

# AMS - CDG - MXP
 
airlinelover
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:22 pm

Who said they'd be giving it up?? Wouldn't KLM and all come with it too?? Also, I had heard that the "wings alliance" is not "official" like Star Alliance or OneWorld. True or not??

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
bucky707
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 8:29 pm

**In all honesty, though, the whole thing could be ( I have no information on this, this is only conjecture ) a way of screwing the UAL/USAirways deal with the regulators. Faced with a two huge codeshare agreements, regulators might just choose to reject both.**

It's two things actually. First, I think this is primarily a bluff to scare the regulators into disapproving UAL/USA. Second, just in case that deal does go through, DAL, CAL and NWA will need to cover themselves. The real interesting question will be, if this deal and the UAL/USA deal both go through, what will AA do?
 
RJNUT
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:46 pm

Northwest and KLM will not join anything that is "lead" by Air France...It will be "lead" by KLM/NW and AF/DL will follow in line..Everyone knows AF is a disaster, same as Alitalia..Its cultural chaos!!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:51 pm

This alliance would still be a little weak out west. SLC is a decent hub, but what about the person who wants to fly from LAX to PDX....connecting through SLC isn't a good option. Of course if this alliance gets approval, I'm sure the three airlines could send planes out west and beef up the West Coast.....CO and DL alone have tons of RJ's to throw around.

However, I have real doubts this will get approved. The DOT isn't going to like it and neither will pilots at NW and DL. Too much dominance in many small markets.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:53 pm

I think that some might be right when they say that DL,CO and NW are just doing this to scare the DOT away from approving the UA/US codeshare.
 
jrlander
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:33 pm

Rjnut writes:

"Northwest and KLM will not join anything that is "lead" by Air France...It will be "lead" by KLM/NW and AF/DL will follow in line..Everyone knows AF is a disaster, same as Alitalia..Its cultural chaos!! "

Really? Would you please back this statement up? Air France is growing, profitable, and has completely redone its onboard service. ITs CDG hub is extremely well suited for futher growth. Alitalia has had major problems, but is working on turning itself around. I would hardly describe either as having cultural chaos.

Furthermore, Skyteam was founded by DL, Korean, AF, and AM. It was initiated by AF and DL. IF anyone else is going to join it, they will not "lead". it.
 
DELTA777
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:34 pm

SkyTeam + Wings

Continental
Delta
KLM
Northwest
Air France
Alitalia
CSA Czech
Malev
Kenya Airways
Malaysia
Korean Air
Air Europa

looks good. they will give star some competition. Then, jopefully, US Airways will join Star. That would be very good for Star to get new eastern routes and the Shuttle.

D E L T A 7 7 7
 
RJNUT
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:50 pm

Jrlander,

You must not understand French or Italian culture very well.

Strikes in the workplace are almost monthly events.. workers do not have the same' Work ethic" as their northern Dutch neighbors and both carriers have had chronic labor problems for decades...CDG may have physical space to expand, but English speakers are rare and i have heard horror stories from DL pax's making connections there, especially during irregular operations due to weather, strikes, etc.

Dont get me wrong, I love the French, but their strengths are not in leading the avation world into bigger and greater heights of cooperation! leave it to the punctual and efficient Dutch...These aren't sterotypes, but nearly facts!
 
euroschu
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:17 pm

Rjnut writes:

Dont get me wrong, I love the French, but their strengths are not in leading the avation world into bigger and greater heights of cooperation! leave it to the punctual and efficient Dutch...These aren't sterotypes, but nearly facts!

"But nearly facts.........."

What facts? More like a big mouth.

What an unproductive and moronic post. I travel through CDG and MXP numerous times throughout the year and have never encountered a problem with the language, and certainly not the culture. I have also lived in the majority of the western European countries over the past 20 years working in the aviation industry. What allows you to slam on these nationalities and airlines? Maybe your vast experience as a travel manager from Kansas City. The Dutch are wonderful people --- as are the French & Italians, Germans, Swiss, etc...

Please keep this board constructive and keep your biased, simple-minded bigoted comments to yourself. Keep to the facts Jack.

Check your spelling too.
 
scottysair
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:20 pm

Come on, all of you guys!! Delta were join with the codeshare with NW/CO and as for skyteam and Wings Alliances. I think this will be great as for me on the frequent flyer by Delta skymiles with partners. So do you thionk about with Delta will had to chance more flight into the hubs. Don't you ever know about an the passengers were stepped up on the flight. Well, good day as for now.
 
jrlander
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:20 pm

Actually Rjnut:

My second language is Italian. And, yes, strikes are common in France and Italy. However, I think saying that Air France and Alitalia are disrupted monthly by strikes is a bit of an stretch. But said strikes, one could argue, are far less problematic than US strikes. European strikes only last a limited amount of time. Remember NW's last pilots strike lasted 2 weeks.

Furthermore, my father regularly connects in CDG coming from Riyadh to the states. And he rather likes it, as do all of my friends in business who regularly connect there.

Yes, the Dutch are known for punctuality, but AF is gaining ground in its reliability. And I have never, never, never heard anyone having a difficulty finding an English speaker at CDG. If the French weren't capable of leading aviation into "greater heights of cooperation", then DL would not have kept AF.

And, once again, I point out that AF is profitable.
 
blink182
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:42 am

A- How will this get government approval? Delta for whatever reason has had it easy when it comes to getting government approval. Not only this, but when it is 3 of the big six,UA,US, and AA are going to do something.
It may be not together, but I have a feeling that US,UA, and AA are not going to be quiet about this. Maybe AA and US tie up again? Maybe US/UA tie up, maybe AA/AS strengthen their alliance together. Who knows, but I know that the rest of the US majors are not going to let this slide. Either they will fight this untill the end or they will go and tie up with other airlines. This could get interesting.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
Braniff727
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:02 am

I don't think NW/CO is joining Skyteam, I think it's strictly a marketing agreement between the three, not a code-share. AP is the only source saying code-share.

Time will tell...
Climbing
 
B747-437B
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:05 am

AP is the only source saying code-share.

Actually, I'm 100% sure I saw a quote by Doug Steenland saying that they were looking at Skyteam, and you don't get a more reliable source than that!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:06 am

Jrlander, DL didn't really choose AF...it was just the last one to pick of the big three since BA went to AA and LH went to UA. DL just got stuck with AF.

Braniff727, it is a codesharing agreement as well as a marketing agreement...check the press release issued by DL.
 
jrlander
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:12 am

Oh actually, they did choose AF. If you remember, DL had a large code-sharing agreement with Swissair and Sabena. THough neither exists now, their combined route system was quite large. Delta chose to build an alliance with AF over that combination. Also, please remeber, that CO used to have an alliance with both AF and Alitalia. AF chose to stick with DL rather than with CO. So I would hardly say that they were stuck with them.
 
727LOVER
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:22 am

Why doesn't everybody just code-share with everybody  Nuts
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Braniff727
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:08 am

From the Horse's Mouth:

Posted 23-Aug/2002 on NWA's Employee Site:

"Northwest, Delta and Continental Reach Commercial Marketing Agreement

Northwest today announced that it has signed a cooperative marketing agreement with Continental Airlines and Delta Air Lines.

The agreement, when fully implemented, will connect the three carriers' domestic and international networks, and include codesharing, frequent flyer program reciprocity, and a reciprocal airport lounge program.

As a result of the pact, the three airlines will offer travelers a broad network connecting hundreds of cities. Ease of ticketing, check-in, and luggage handling will make travel on two or more of the carriers a seamless experience.

Northwest said it, Continental and Delta will engage in discussions with their respective European carrier partners regarding trans-Atlantic cooperation and inclusion in the SkyTeam Alliance.

The three airlines have no plans to merge their operations and will retain separate boards, management and headquarters. No layoffs, mergers of workforces, transfers of flying, assets, or closures of facilities are planned as a result of the proposed agreement. The three carriers will remain competitors.

"The board and management team at Northwest believe the agreement among Northwest, Delta and Continental will benefit the three airlines business and leisure customers by providing one of the most convenient route networks in the world," said Richard Anderson, CEO.

"Northwest's domestic route system, particularly in the Midwest, teamed with its impressive service to Asia will be a big plus for Delta travelers. This agreement builds on the very successful alliance between Northwest and Continental that has allowed domestic and international travelers of both airlines to enjoy seamless and convenient travel on the other partner for the past four years."

Doug Steenland, president, said, "Delta's extensive route system in the South and Southeast along with its strong presence in the Northeast corridor and in Latin America will be of great benefit to Northwest Airlines travelers.

"This agreement is a plus for business travelers who demand schedule convenience. Travelers using the three airlines can optimize connectivity to achieve a broader choice of departure times, routings and alternate airports."

"Leisure travelers benefit from the proposed agreement as well, since they continue to get competitive fares. Customers also benefit when accruing and redeeming frequent flyer mileage and program awards because of a broader range of global destinations," Steenland added.

The three airlines bring a geographically convenient hub and spoke network to the alliance that will result in travel efficiencies previously unavailable for domestic and international travelers alike. The three carriers also will offer greater non-stop service to Asian destinations as well as increased East to West Coast service.

The airlines said they will shortly submit the marketing agreement to the Department of Transportation (DOT) for its review. In addition, the proposed agreement will require the approval of Northwest pilots represented by the Air Line Pilots Association International (ALPA)."

Looks like inclusion in Syteam is in the future. Personally, I have reservations about this, but I trust Anderson so far.
Climbing
 
usairways85
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:15 am

 
Braniff727
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 2:22 am

Also just read on the NW Employee site that DL is planning on moving to CO's terminal in IAH and to the WorldGateway in DTW. No dates mentioned.

I'm sure this is all tentative, pending DOT approval.
Climbing
 
Scott4AA
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:23 am

It seems to me, that CO/DL/NW are all pretty well built up in the east and midwest. With hubs at ATL, IAH, DTW, MSP, MEM, CVG, DFW, EWR and Delta's big ops at BOS and LGA. But what about the west? Seems they are really lacking when the furthest west hub the have is SLC.
American Airlines - We Know Why You Fly
 
calpilot
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Fri

Sat Aug 24, 2002 6:47 am

I'm all for it!

It might cost me my job for the short term; however, for the long term stability of my career in this industry, this might be the best move. In todays market with the turmoil that surrounds us, consolidation is going to be a fact sooner or later. Without it even more people in the industry will lose their jobs as the big six just go around the toilet.

Let it happen.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:00 am

CalPilot. That's some long range thinking. I just got off the phone with a SWA buddy who related a story that happened yesterday. He told me that on coming to the airport in CLE he had read an article on this proposed codeshare. At the airport he saw a CAL pilot outside as he got off the van so he went over to ask him what he knew. The CAL pilot handed my buddy a piece of paper. The paper was his furlough notice. This guy said he was a 767 FO and that he hadn't seen it coming. So what's up at CAL? Are you guys starting to furlough? Is is because of this codeshare?
 
jrlander
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:11 am

I can't believe CAL is furloughing because of a codeshare that hasn't been approved either by your pilots union or by the Federal government. This simply does not make any sense.
 
ewr757
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MD88Captain

Sat Aug 24, 2002 9:01 am



No furloughs announced. Somebody is pulling someone's chain or grandstanding. Besides, a 767 F/O would be safe. This fails the smell test.
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 10:01 am

I can see why CO/NW would want a domestic with DL. DL has a strong presence in the southeast etc. But What do they need Air France for? KLM has an established presence in the US, a great history with NW, and a more compatible fare shedule (coach/biz). Maybe they could use Airfrenchy for flights to CDG..?

-Sean
 
nonrevman
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 10:18 am

It seems to me, that CO/DL/NW are all pretty well built up in the east and midwest. With hubs at ATL, IAH, DTW, MSP, MEM, CVG, DFW, EWR and Delta's big ops at BOS and LGA. But what about the west? Seems they are really lacking when the furthest west hub the have is SLC.

I was wondering about that myself. SLC is the only hub west of the central time zone. Other than that, most of the West coast flights are transcons with DL, CO, or NW. If someone wants to travel within the west and SLC is out of the way, then there will still be a weakness. It would seem that UA and US would be strong in all regions together. US could cover the East/Southest. UA could handle the West, Midwest, and the Transpacific flights. The Star Alliance could handle the rest. I wonder how critical that gap in the West would be for DL, CO, and NW.
 
Guest

RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:17 am

2 major points. 1 Positive, 1 doubt.

1 Positive:

Delta gets benefit for expanding their weak Asian market. NW/CO gets benefit (especially NW) for expanding European Market, thanks to Delta.

1 doubt:

Why would DL/CO/NW need to worry about the collaboration of UA/US? US filed Chapter 11, and UA could be next. Why bother worry this UA/US trio? US has shelved certain number of flights, and UA could be next. With the shrinking UA/US, it doesn't make a big threat to the others.
 
euroschu
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:18 am

Some are speculating that Alaska might be asked to join at a later date given their deep ties with Northwest & KLM. They also have ties to Continental, as well as American & BA.
 
drewwright
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:26 am

Hey this marketing idea is working already! I was thinking when I watched the news this evening that I could drop American Advantage in a heartbeat if DL/NW/CO teamed up. Think about the potential. I earn about 100k a year on American Advantage, if I switched to DL, I could fly to many more places using my reward miles vs American. I sure would love to go to Hong Kong!

DRW
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sun Aug 25, 2002 12:27 am

NW/CO gets benefit (especially NW) for expanding European Market, thanks to Delta.

A little know fact is that NWA operates more ASMs transatlantic than Continental does. When you factor in the NW/KL revenue sharing (which to date is not something implemented by any other partnership despite ATI being granted), NW's transatlantic penetration (under the KLM brand) is significant.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
B747-437B
Topic Author
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RE: DL/CO/NW Expected To Announce Codeshare On Friday

Sun Aug 25, 2002 12:30 am

The CAL pilot handed my buddy a piece of paper. The paper was his furlough notice. This guy said he was a 767 FO and that he hadn't seen it coming.

I think every single 767 FO at CAL has sufficient seniority to dodge a furlough at this point. I'm sure 777gk can confirm this though.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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