Topic Author
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

Looking For Input

Fri Oct 15, 1999 11:46 am

I want to know what everyone thinks of the newest Russian airliners, and their potential to be marketed in the West. The two most likely are: the Pratt & Whitney-powered Ilyushin IL96M, a long-range four-engine widebody passenger aircraft or dedicated freighter which uses Rockwell/Collins avionics; and the Rolls-Royce RB211-535E-powered Tupolev TU204-214, a medium-range twin-engine single-aisle passenger aircraft or dedicated freighter.

What is the potential for these aircraft to be purchased by Western operators? What does everyone think of the planes? Would you hesitate to fly in one? All opinions welcome.  
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Looking For Input

Fri Oct 15, 1999 11:50 am

I'll bet you can guess my answer, Ilyushin96!    

I don't think that any self-respecting airline in the western world would ever touch a Russian-built aircraft.

Personally, I would and I wouldn't have a problem flying on one...I wouldn't jump up and say, "Hey, let's go fly on a Russian aircraft!", but I don't think I'd turn it down, either!

Posts: 1254
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 1999 1:42 am

RE: Looking For Input

Fri Oct 15, 1999 11:56 am

It's been a while since any new planes have come out of the former USSR (now Russia & CIS if i'm not mistaken), in fact i think it was before the collapse of the Soviet Union. Anyways, I'm most intrigued by the Ilyushin IL96M, especially in it's range capability. That's fascinating how far it can go... haven't heard much on the TU204-214, but i don't know about their marketability in the West. A lot of people here are wary about purchasing or using anything from Eastern Europe. I'd be interested in flying in one of those aircraft, although I hear they are pretty loud inside the cabin. Also one plane you are forgetting is the TU-334. Honestly it looks like a mesh between the Boeing 727, the Boeing 737, and the MD-11. It has the tail and engines like the 727, the sausage shape of the 737, and the winglets of an MD-11. It kind of amuses me to look at it... but i'm sure it works great. I'm assuming Aeroflot will purchase some of these aircraft... maybe the CAAC too. But outside of that i seriously doubt any airline (especially US airlines) would seriously consider purchasing the above mentioned. However, I wouldn't be that surprised if one did. I notice that San Francisco is now served twice daily (?) by Aeroflot, using both 767's and 777's. used to the IL96's would come out... i was hoping to go down sometime and take pictures.

Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Looking For Input

Fri Oct 15, 1999 12:04 pm

The combi version on the TU-204(TU-234???) would be the aircraft with the best shot at selling in the west. Either that or the freighter version of the IL-96.

The problem that both of those aircraft have in the west is a simple one. When I was unpacking the last time I moved I came accross a Flying Magazine that covered the 1988 Paris Air Show. That was the debut of both the IL-96 and the TU-204. There have been quite a number of different airlifters that have been designedm built and placed in operation, in the 11 years since that Paris Air Show. Point being is that everyone of those aircraft have the appearance of being more modern then the two Russian aircraft. That and the delay in service entrance gives the impression that there may be production delays, parts delays, ect. ect. ect. because of the long drawn out design process.

All of these reasons are factors to the lack of western interest.

I personally would like to see the Combi version of the IL-114. It would be a perfect replacement for the L-188 Electras that RAA flies.
Topic Author
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

RE: Looking For Input

Fri Oct 15, 1999 12:07 pm

I am sure you're referring to older generation Soviet jetliners, with their noisy, thirsty, dirty engines. No exhaust mufflers or sound suppressors on those, and they ARE loud. The new TU204-214 and IL96M are sure to have greatly decreased cabin noise as they are not powered by Russian-made engines. Both planes were very much designed with Western markets in mind.

The TU334 is exclusively a Russian-made aircraft, with Russian engines and avionics. It is intended to replace the TU134. Only a few countries outside of Russia have shown interest, but Tupolev never intended it to be marketed in the West.

Aeroflot has a 777 going in and out of SFO now? KEWL! I thought that route was still serviced by an IL96-300. I saw the IL take off once...very kewl.  
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 1999 1:58 pm

How About TU-334

Fri Oct 15, 1999 12:10 pm

I think TU334 will be the winner as it would be a cheaper alternative for A318, 717 and other small ac market dominated by Canadaair.
A taste of Paradise
Topic Author
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

RE: How About TU-334

Fri Oct 15, 1999 12:24 pm

The TU334 may be considered by some airlines, but not in any great quantity unless Tupolev offers alternate powerplants to the Russian-made engines it's been certified with. As well as an avionics upgrade. I don't think any Western carrier would buy a Russian plane with Russian engines. Not a good bet.
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 9:01 pm

RE: Looking For Input/FLY777UAL.

Sat Oct 16, 1999 2:46 am

Hello IL96M! I'm glad to see your topic!

The point you rose is very interesting! After discussing about the industries, I would put a topic here talking about the products themselves! But, you took the lead...  

I think that the Latin American (especially Bolivia, Peru, Ecuator, Nicaragua, Honduras), the African (countries such Mauritaine, Guinée, Togo, Benin, Burkina Faso, Mali, Niger, Chad, Sudan, Gabon, Uganda, Zambia, Malawi, Botswana, etc) and the Asian (places such Iran - I've already told you about the Iranian order for 80 An-140 -, Afeganistan, Pakistan - well, let's see what to wait after the militar coup -, India, Bangladesh, Myammar, Laos, Cambodia, China, North Korea, Mongolia, plus the CIS states) markets are those most likely to receive the new CIS-made products.

The planes made in CIS countries are very cheap and this factor is extremely important on those regions I've citted. Planes such An-140, Tu-334, Tu-214 would offer very important possibilities at a rational and accessive price. many airlines can't pay for an A320/321 or B737/757, but could pay for a Tu-214 for instance. The same goes for a Dash-8 vs. An-140 debate!

About other markets, then things become a bit more complicated. I'd like to see some IL96s, Tu-214,... flying in the European (EU), Japanese, South Korean, Singaporian, Thai, Australian, Canadian and USAmerican skies, but it seems very very improbable to me! The same goes for Western Europe (Poland, Hungary, Czech,...). It seems they are going to eastern products (Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, etc).

About the quality of them, FLY777UAL, I suggest you to take a look at the topic "Perspectives for CIS air industries" (first and second editions). You will see that the old fame the Russian planes had is something of the past, according to especialists!

Best regards,

TP343, São Paulo, Brazil.
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 12:20 am

RE: Looking For Input

Sat Oct 16, 1999 3:20 am

I was reading something about this,in some back issues of aviaton week and technology, and it had said on of the new aircraft was 84% american content, but in my own opinon its like the movie armageddon:

"russian component, american component,"
" ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Posts: 2276
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

RE: Looking For Input

Sat Oct 16, 1999 3:54 am

Doesn't anyone recognize the fact that NASA has been working with Russia very closely with space related matters. It seems that Russia is cranking out good products (when we make them   ).

Remember the first "A" in NASA is "Air."

- Neil Harrison
Topic Author
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

A Few Conclusions

Sat Oct 16, 1999 6:58 am

I think it's safe to say that Ilyushin and Tupolev will have moderate success marketing their new aircraft in the Middle East, Africa and Asia. Cost is a key factor in countries like Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, China, Vietnam, etc. Unfortunately, one of the ideas I had behind my request for input was whether or not the West will ever contribute in any significant way to the success of Russia's domestic production. It doesn't look like that will happen. In the end, Russia may have to rely on sales of aircraft and weapons to countries the West does not want to receive this kind of support, but there really is no alternative.

Popular Searches On

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos