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US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:23 am

Seems odd that they are doing this and no one else is. I sure wouldnt want to fly on USAirways now. Could someone explain to me how this keeps fares lower?

"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:43 am

Any airline that thinks they can charge me 300 bucks and because of traffic or security delay take off without me on it and keep my money better be ready for a fight.

I will NEVER fly on them again. There are a hundred reasons why flights are missed (accidents on way to airport, flat tires getting lost etc)

If they think I will chance it on them when they are saying they will not refund money or put you on a later flight? I'll put in on my American Express card and simply call the 800 number and have them put a stop on it.

If I pay 300 for something and the unforseeable happens then they should charge a fee for my mistake but to deny me accesss and keep my money? Yah right.

I forgave them TWICE on my recent flight for canceled flights that screwed my trip up. If they cant return the favor then start collecting the USAirways stuf people because it will be valuable when they tank soon.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:48 am

The changes to Dividend Miles are pretty stupid as well. They are going to annoy a lot of their loyal travellers by restricting flights that qualify for Elite / Preferred qualification to essentially full fares. You'll still earn Dividend Miles on all fares, but only those non-refundable fares booked in "H" class and below will not count towards elite qualificaion. That's a lot of fares! Count me out of flying them again!

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:51 am

And their logic is flawed and they WILL BE sued.

No ones life is ruined by a missed ball game or arriving late for a Broadway show. And sorry but having been to many Broadway shows if you are nice you can get credited for a further showing.

But do they seriously think a family of three or four is going to shell out 1000 dollars and because of a mishap lose every penny plus have no transportation?

It should be illegal and I guarantee you there will be lawsuits.

I already know of several occasions where flights have left with passengers still waiting in line because security was backed up. In cases like that it is not the passengers fault. And if they think they can pocket the money for a service not being rendered then they better be prepared for a fight.

With that said I always arrive ridiculously early at the airport just to make sure. But if one of these crazy drivers took out the cab I was in I think it is only right that the airline respond with placing on a later flight for a fee.

Note to self- Dont fly on USAirways.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:16 am

Don't know if any lawsuits will hold...but the difference between a Broadway show and an airline ticket is this: If I can't make it to a Broadway show, I can sell (or give) my tickets to someone who can. Can't do that with an airline ticket.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:25 am

This is definitely the straw that broke the camels' back.

I will no longer fly US Airways on any route. Period.
To start with, they've just lost the revenue from
the 20+ roundtrip Shuttle flights I take in one year.

(the fact of the matter is that I've been riding on
the Acela Express a lot more than airline shuttles lately,
despited the fact that Acela tickets cost a lot more than
airline shuttle ticket... $450 roundtrip on the Acela FC,
vs @ $240 roundtrip on the shuttle)

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:41 am

If this spreads to other carriers, watch passenger loyalty go out the window as people will only care about the absolute lowest fare.

They are losing business passengers because they are not traveling as much and cannot afford the higher fares. Now they are alienating this group by taking away many of their benefits unless they pay for the high fares which they cannot afford. Money talks.

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:02 am

And USAirways says that most people make their flights fine.

Then WHY do this? It doesnt make sense.

The director of travel at my company today just pulled USAirways number out of the rolodex and tossed it in the trash. That means they just lost potentially big money. My company flies its execs constantly.

I cannot see how this is going to affect them positively.

I've e-mailed all my relatives and warned them not to fly USAirways. We are having a big reunion for Christmas and that means the biz is going to go to other airlines.

And its pretty stupid considering the weather and that USAirways is based heavily in a hard winter area.

I cant tell you how many times I have gotten up at 2am for flights at 8 because there was heavy snow on the ground and I know the commute to the airport would be hard.

Its a shame too because for the last three years I have been bragging about USAirways. Them and Continental were my favorites.

I have never missed a flight (almost-because of a multi car pile up that closed the highway and we had to go WAY out of the way)

But I wont even chance it now.

People have got to put their foots down and say NO WAY this is just too far.

We are talking big money here and the poorer families will be hurt hardest. You want to see airport rage? Just tell someone they just lost 1200 bucks and wont be accomodated.

Its a stupid idea.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:07 am

And you wonder WHY the airlines are so hated by passengers? Their "business plan" (real joke) will lead to less loyalty. The airline sindustry is really headed by idiots!!!!

Maybe they should go bankrupt. Maybe the tax payer should not bail such idiots out!

Yes, the other "stupid" airlines will follow.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:08 am


The problem is that your $300.00 ticket for that flight is a *contract* for carriage on that flight, that day. It's not technically good for anything else. So if you fail to live up to your end of the bargain by not showing up, you're out of luck. An airline seat is a highly perishable commodity. Once that airplane door is closed, that empty seat has lost the ability to make any money for the company. The reason it was empty is because you, for some reason, didn't show up to claim it after you'd bought a ticket. Now, it doesn't matter if you were stuck in traffic, delayed by security, abducted by aliens, or whatever. They were holding that seat for you under the assumption that you'd be on board, which kept them from selling it to anyone else. As a result, they have every right to keep the money if you fail to show. It's no different than trying to get a refund on a ticket you bought for a ballgame that you didn't show up for.


You make a valid point about giving it to someone else, save for the fact that an airline ticket is a non-transferable contract between the carrier and the customer, and THAT is why the name cannot be changed. The customer's purchase of the ticket is their tacit acceptance of the airline's terms and conditions, so they have no legal recourse if they don't like the policy.


Since this change is one that would ultimately benefit ALL airlines if implemented by everyone, expect other carriers to match the "discount fares don't count towards elite status" policy. Since Southwest doesn't offer such status to their Rapid Rewards members, the other carriers won't be at a competetive disadvantage. Look for this to be an industry standard within three months.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:25 am

although I respect USAirways probably endless meetings to reach those policies, they are following a trend ( Continental) in discontinuing offering free alcohol on transatlantioc flights I see no better way to alienate low fare paying passengers AND businessmen in not giving miles.

As stated a lot of people choose a certain airline ( or give preference when choices are available) because of FF programs.

I perosnally hate to see all of this happen, and it is true that, unless the other majors refuse to follow those premises, this will become average for U.S. based carriers.
This leads to the question of what they will be stopping card miles? hotel stays and car rentals???

Furthermore, no big savings are allowed ( and no big gain) from a 4 dollars mini bottle of gin. Let's be real, they buy in bulk, how much does it REALLY cost to an airline the alcohol? It was a nice little attention for the passengers.

More and more I am happy to fly non U.S. based carriers although I live in NYC.
Me too, I will skip travelling with them. They won't notice, of course, but how many people will do so? That will make the difference...

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:28 am

And yet more people defect to FL, TZ, F9, WN, B6, etc.

The airlines don't seem to realize that becoming more low-frills while charging full-service prices will impact their bottom line.

I hope UA doesn't match this.

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:30 am

Then if its a "contract" between us then my 8am flight better take off at 8 and not 9:15 and if they are going to cry about a breach of contract then I WILL TOO.

That philosophy will not win them customers.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:46 am

OK, let's get this straight...

USAirways is bankrupt right now...

USAirways is trying to cut costs...

USAirways screws its remaining customers with this policy...

What the &%*!?

I already hate flying through PHL... Yet another reason to hop around on other airlines.

Up, up and away!
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:48 am

Delta started this "simply good business" policy of sticking to the rules some time ago. The frequent flyers bitched and moaned. What most of them fail to understand is that the airline really does not value you for how many base miles you've flown, but how much money you bring in. Two very different matters.

Keep the faith U, after the dust settles you'll see more revenue not less. Especially, since more and more airlines are adopting tighter controls on rule bending.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:53 am

gosh! that is so unfair! i mean what if you had to delay? or some emergency happend? you can just standby! not that they take off without you!

i found a fare on USairways for $150 with no connection from IAD to FLL, yet, the same offer was on delta with a connection, but the moment i have read that, i booked on Delta! at least i know if i missed a flight i will be able to standby..
PHX - i miss spotting

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:57 am

Lets not generalize the tightening of rules with the WACKED decision USAirways made.

This after the men in suits were smiling on TV about the new customer contract about how they would treat us fairly. Yeah, right. Let the government step in and really shake their trees if they all adopt this policy.

We have all read about AA and DELTA showing amazing humanity recently.

USAirways could never compete with them and will die.

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:21 pm

It is WAAAAAAAAY different than just not getting a refund for a ballgame I didnt show up for.

Air transportation is crucial for a variety of reasons. And no one pays 1000 for a ballgame.

Some wacko is going to go ballistic when he misses his flight and is told the money he saved up wont be refunded.

Then he will do something awful and USAirways will be in the press. And the airline will be faulted in the publics eye because it clearly easy for most people to see the difference between a 20 dollar game ticket and 500 dollar plane ticket and I am sure when enough public officials miss flights we are going to see threats of laws drawn up and USAirways is going to retract what would have been a stupid rule. In a year when airlines need all the good press they can get USAirways will have been one that got the worst by its own fault.

People already go ape at airport counters already. I would hate to work for USAirways now. Try telling someone he and his wife on their honeymoon are out of luck and out of money.

If they are going to leave late and cancel flights and cancel onboard entertainment (happened twice) and substitute aircraft and cancel seat assignments and split up families on flights then they BETTER be a bit forgiving in return to the VERY PEOPLE who are staying loyal to the airlines during this hard time.

Yup, if I was a politician I would threaten to bark against their loan unless they dropped such a stupid rule.

Its like someone buying a car not getting it because they showed up late to pick it up.

They are NOT losing money because they only put people in seats that werent sold on the next flight. So technically the person gets ONE SEAT.

If he misses and the next flight is full then he waits until there is an empty seat.

You dont STEAL HIS MONEY and deny any seat.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:25 pm

These are just my thoughts on the non-refundable tickets losing all of their value after departure.

US Airways still gives you a choice of whether you want to buy a fully refundable ticket at a higher price or a non-refundable ticket at a lower price. As long as you cancel the reservation of the non-refundable ticket before the actual departure, the monies (less the $100.00 change fee)can be applied towards another flight.

I'm curious as to what percentage of passengers who don't show up for a flight were delayed by traffic, in a car wreck, had a death in the family, etc. and what percentage of passengers who don't show up for a flight know ahead of time and simply don't bother to cancel the existing reservation because they're too busy and they've never had to do it in the past.

Also, let's say you're flying jetBlue and are delayed due to traffic or don't make the flight because of a death in the family, etc. Well, if you don't call jetBlue and cancel ahead of time, guess what? You forfeit all your money, too.

If you go to jetBlue's website and click on "How to jetBlue" and then click on "Changes/Cancellations/Fares, it states:

All fares are one way and non-refundable/non-transferable. Changes can only be made by calling 1-800-JETBLUE prior to scheduled departure for $25 and applicable fare adjustment. Changes are not eligible for a $5 Internet savings. Cancellations may be made prior to scheduled departure time for a full credit (less a $25.00 processing fee per passenger) towards future JetBlue travel. Credit is valid for one year and can only be redeemed by calling 1-800-JETBLUE. All monies will be forfeited if reservation is not cancelled prior to departure.

JetBlue has a lower change fee. US has a higher change fee. But on both airlines, if you don't cancel/change before the flight leaves, you lose all your money. Yet I don't recall seeing anyone complaining about jetBlue's policy and I was just wondering why.


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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:37 pm

Buyer beware. The late honeymooners will be a rare unfortunate casualty. The hundreds of people who daily who bluff their way out of service fees or buying new tickets will make up the difference.

And if someone wants to raise hell at the airport these days, the scores of bored cops and TSA agents will be happy to assist them.

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:44 pm

then I wish USAIRWAYS had the brains to say Gee Mr Jones youve missed two flights this month. We are keeping the money.

If they were smart they could apply this to people on the SECOND OFFENCE and after.

I would have NO complaint. But first time? There will be lawsuits.

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 12:57 pm

I think perhaps that the particular agent should be given the power to override in the cases where an unforseen circumstance happens.

I will be the first to admit that some corporate folks buy three tickets and make one flight. Clearly abuse should be punished.

Perhaps Usairways is barking loudly to get the attention of those who abuse the system. Lets hope. I really liked flying them up until recently.

Just had family that made a return flight on them on Sunday Night.

So I am not anti-USAir, just anti greed and corporate abuse.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:21 pm

The moral of the story: take your cell phone with you on the way to the airport, or have someone drive you who has one. As long as one cancels beforehand, one only loses $100 for the change fee. Still a ripoff, but at least one doesn't lose the cost of a full ticket.

JetBlue is a low-fare carrier to begin with, so passengers can expect to face tighter restrictions on "nonrefundable" tickets. Also, so-called "low-fare" nonrefundable tickets on US Airways, like the other Cartel carriers, are generally higher than the nonrefundable fares on low-fare carriers (Unless a low-fare carrier happens to be holding them accountable on the city-pair in question). It is reasonable for Cartel customers to expect services such as standby and taking the next flight if necessary. Especially since so few people tend to miss flights through misfortune before arrival at the airport.

All US will do is generate ill will at a time when they can't afford it. Political smarts aren't the Cartel's high point, though, so expect the other five to follow suit. US Airways has put its airport personnel in the uncomfortable position of enforcing two sets of rules--one for highrollers, one for the couple headed for their honeymoon. I sure wouldn't want to be a US c/s person right now.

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:27 pm


Well said.

Stand by placement and help if you "just miss it" (not by days but minutes) is understandable and good business sense.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:13 pm

I would certainly hope this doesn't become a new policy on all carriers.

I (and many others, I suspect) would lose elite status if discounted non-refundable fares didn't count towards elite status. And at that point, why be loyal? If I can't be fairly assured of getting through security quickly, and having high priority on standby, why not just fly whomever has the lowest fare?

I personally suspect that US will be an orphan on this issue, and, when others don't follow, will recant this position.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:20 pm

I am flying US Airways tomorrow, and plan to get there two hours early. Man am I am going to be one pissed off person if for some odd reason I miss the flight. I had to book this stupid flight a month in advance because US Airways is so expensive to fly out of CLT and it's the only way to get a half decent fare. Atleast I have been warned here on this site, but I am positive everyone that doesn't follow airlines will know nothing about this new policy. I am sure I will see the screaming and yelling first hand tomorrow.

This may very well be my last trip with US Airways because I can't afford to chance it. It's to bad, I have always liked the airline and because I live in one of their hub cities, the level of non stop service is excellent. I guess from now on I will have to fly through other cities and change planes.  Sad
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 3:08 pm

Sounds like a desperation move...cutting costs even further and trying to get a little extra cash by screwing over their customers...the release also said that there would be no more free alcohol on pond crossings in economy class...another desperation move maybe?

My family is a family of US travelers...myself and my mom being US Silver and my dad being US Chairman's Preferred...he travels on business for the majority of those miles, I wonder if his company will alter their travel methods and airlines for this...

Chief college football stadium self-pic guru
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 4:49 pm

Whew. No surprise that this has enraged a number of travelers.

Ultimately, the airline is wagering that lost revenue due to angered passengers is less than that lost by flying empty seats. My guess is that the first time most passengers will learn of this new policy is when they're standing at the ticket counter with 2 screaming kids in tow and the agent says "sorry". That would be my last time on the airline, for sure.

The thing that baffles me about this decision, is that the outcome of this wager will be difficult to measure. Can they really get metrics on the number of travelers who react to this policy by flying another airline? They can't derive statistics from customers they never had. I can't believe that they have the numbers to support taking such a bold risk with customer loyalty at a time when they are struggling financially.

Seems that this should go both ways. I am generally forgiving of operational or maintenance problems that result in a cancelled flight. Until now, I have also appreciated that airlines have granted me mercy when I have been forced to miss my scheduled flight and they rebooked me on a later flight.

If we accept that the basis for this policy is a contract for me to fly to point X on a specific flight, then they should also honor that contract when they can't meet their end of the deal, excepting weather, natural disasters, etc. of course. Under this stricter policy, if USAirways has a mechanical or operational failure that results in a flight cancellation or significant delay, it should mean a full refund of my ticket price. Fair is fair.


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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:05 pm

Geotrash (and others),

The reason this seems so outlandish to every sane person with half a mind for business 101 is because it IS so outlandish. The real root problem is that the airlines.....DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU, YOUR BUSINESS FLIGHTS, OR ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT YOU (or any of their customers)! This is the only "service" industry that continually reduces service at every turn, blames all of its financial problems on its customers and then runs to Uncle Sammy to bail them out when the inevitable happens.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:41 pm

I think US Airways' new rules make perfect sense. Why should any airline give me a new, free ticket, when I miss my flight when I get out of bed late, or get stuck in traffic? That is not their fault, is it?

When I miss a connection, due to a delayed US Airways flight, it is different: then it is their fault and they should give me a new, free ticket for a later flight. And that is what they will continue to do.

It all makes perfect sense to me. If you screw up, you pay. If they screw up, they pay. A lot of European carriers have never been doing otherwise.
UPS Pilot
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:05 pm

I can see their point to an extent. I have seen many people who are just irresponsible. They are late for everything including flights. Is it U.S. Airways fault that these people cannot make it to the airport in time? What about being at the airport at least TWO hours before departure time as suggested? There are many people who feel that is just a wasted amount of time and feel that doesn't apply to them. This I feel applies to those people.

As far as accidents or flats and such, how is that U.S. Airways fault. Again it comes down to poor planning on the passenger's part. If you have concert tickets to a show and get a flat, do they hold the show for you? Will they refund your money? I don't think so. I would suggest when traveling to the airport you plan for these type of things. Again people take things for granted and say I have plenty of time and think these things don't happen. They do!!!
Plan for it!!!!

Now I feel that if your flight is delayed and you miss a connection then this policy should not apply. Is it your fault that U.S. Airways could not pushback on time? No Is it your fault that ATC has delayed clearance due to weather? No If the aircraft has a mechanical is it your fault,? No

Bottom line is people just don't wait till the last minute to go to the airport arrive at least TWO hours before departure to give yourself time.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:29 pm

Okay, lets look at some other parts of this rule. What's one of the biggest reasons people give for not flying Southwest airlines? Okay, first is they don't like open seating, but in most every argument I've seen, the number two reason is that they could stand by for an earlier flight for no charge. Now they can't. Furthermore, in my "road warrior" days, it wasn't terribly uncommon to push the limits of the flight time and fail to call the airline in advance of the flight. What happens to unused tickets on USAirways? You lose every dollar. What happens on Southwest airlines when you fail to use part or all of your ticket? According to their contract of carriage:

Nonrefundable tickets - Passengers who purchase restricted, nonrefundable tickets are not eligible for refunds, except as provided in Articles 90.C. and 90.D. below. Unless otherwise specifically stated on the ticket, in the travel agreement with Carrier, or by an Employee or agent of Carrier when reservations are booked, confirmed, or ticketed, the fare paid for unused nonrefundable tickets, upon surrender of the unused ticket or portion thereof, or with the Ticketless travel confirmation number and proof of purchase sufficient to Carrier, may be applied toward the purchase of future travel, without penalty, provided that credit is requested within one (1) year after the original issue date of the ticket. The fare for the new ticket(s), however, may be greater and/or the new ticket(s) may be subject to different terms, conditions, or restrictions than the original ticket.

Hmmm, looks like you get full value towards another ticket and no change penalty. And rather than an hour before, you've got one year after the date of the trip. HOw many corporate travel managers are going to look at that and make their determination of which airline they use.

Then you've got the customer loyalty thing. Most of the road warriors travel so much that a free trip is the LAST thing they want to take. They would rather take advantage of the perks they get from "premier" status. Now US is making it more difficult for them to reach that status and get those perks. IMHO, an absolutely foolish move on their part.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 8:49 pm

re: holding my seat for me

I think that is a load of bull-crap. Airlines have this stuff down to a science. They purposefully oversell flights because they *KNOW* there will be no-shows. They track this stuff. They know how many seats to oversell. If by some miracle everyone shows, they look for volunteers to go on the next one. Or the stuff the empty seats with stand-by passengers. Or, they will upgrade full fare economy passengers to the next class, and stuff in extra coach passengers. It happens all the time. I dont buy this "poor airline holding my seat, and me having the gall not to show up, and then expecting my 500$ ticket to be still worth 500$" Criminy...
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:09 pm

I'm surprised nobody has hit on this point. If US Airways charges you $200 for a flight, then they are committed to holding a seat for you. If you get a flat and they say they will not refund your money for the flight, then they better make damn sure that your seat was unoccupied on the flight. An airline cannot charge a person for a seat, then book it to someone else without giving you accomodations in the future. To me, this is just the apex of US Airways poor management and business model. In short, they just nailed their coffin shut.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:43 pm

Guys, guys,

I can't understand what all the fuss is about. Welcome to the real world - this is not new stuff folks. This has broadly speaking been happening with non-refundable tickets in a large part of the rest of the world for years. Get used to it.

US Airways gives you a clear choice. Buy a non-refundable ticket, which saves you money, and if for whatever reason you don't show, you loose the money. If you want the luxury of being able to no-show the flight and get your money back or use the ticket later, then US Airways offer you the chance of paying more for that flexibility by buying a full fare ticket.

So, save some bucks but make absolutely sure you're at the airport way way early. Or pay more bucks and have the flexibility. Like I say, its a dilema the rest of the world has been dealing with for years.

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:54 pm

If you are too late and miss a flight, it is almost certain that your seat will be occupied due to overbooking policies.

I was thinking of travelling US Airways LGW-FLL via PHL or CLT, but I am much more likely to choose a financially stronger airline with free transatlantic alcoholic drinks.
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RE: Skymonster

Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:55 pm

Yes, but the problem lies in airlines' pricing structure - airlines have priced themselves out of the market for refundable tickets. The price points between a refundable and non-refundable ticket are too far apart. The added value that comes with the refundable price isn't worth it (and isn't affordable)for most people... that's why most people choose the non-refundable ticket. If they would revamp their pricing structure to more closely meet market demand/conditions, more people will buy refundable tickets, and their revenue will actually go up.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:13 pm

Good grief.

If you can't get to the bank to make your mortgage payment because of traffic, or an accident, should the bank waive your penalties and fees?

If you can't get to the polls before they close because of some unforseen incident should you still be allowed to vote?

If you can't get to a cruise ship because you missed your flight, should they hold it for you?

BE ON TIME. Three simple words. When you bbok your flight, make sure you have enough time to get from your starting point to the airport, park, walk to the terminal, check in, go through security and whatever else you need to do before the flight leaves.

Personally I see all of this complaining as coming from people who cannot take the responsibility to act like an adult and get yourself to places on time.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:17 pm


With all due respect, we are acting like responsible adults. Consumers have the right to speak, and they have the right to choose to fly on US Airways competition. An airline flight is not comparable to a cruise ship, to voting, or to making a payment.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:18 pm

At last another airline takes action against people (and especially companies) that buy say 20 tickets for 20 flights on the same route in the chance that the CEO might need to go there, then cancel 19 of them when the man travels.
It happens a lot, and all those seats are empty on the flight. Under old policy, the airline would have 1) an empty seat and 2) have to refund the ticket.
One other way to solve that problem is to overbook every single flight, but that leaves more people angry potentially as they arrive at the gate but there are no seats for them.

Currently, an estimated 10% of empty seats on airliners are because of no-show of the passengers. Only a small minority of those have genuine reasons. IMO being stuck in traffic is NOT a genuine reason, you should plan for that when you're going somewhere. If you're going to a job interview you don't plan your trip through morning rush hour without taking traffic jams into account, so why should you if you're to catch a flight?
If you indeed have a death in the family, I think the airline will be sympathetic and offer you a free (or heavily discounted) ticket on another date. That's only good PR. But missing your flight because you overslept should not be reason for getting any money back.

Good move, hope all airlines follow suit quickly (and many will, it was probably a measure waiting for someone brave or desperate enough to dare take it).
I wish I were flying

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:23 pm

Lawyers on here: would I be able to ask for the cash of the vouchers that they give me($400 off next ticket becomes $400 refunded to my credit card, for example) when I'm denied boarding now? I was denied this flight where they had a seat for me, so I should get some of the money back for this flight, just like they do now.

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:26 pm

Braniff727: the difference is that the ballgames don't overbook the stadiums, the theater companies don't sell 430 tickets if they have 400 seats, the cruise ship doesn't overbook by 100(proportionate to an aircraft), etc. When US says that it won't overbook, then I'll accept this new rule as a good and fair one.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:43 pm


You are right, and I don't say that you shouldn't voice your opinion. I am voicing mine that I don't understand how one's inability to get themselves to the airport on time is an airline's fault. You're right, an airline isn't like a those other companies, but they sure as hell aren't going to cut you slack if you are late. Why should an airline?


Overbooking has nothing to do with you being late for a flight. My statement says be on time. Yeah, overbooking sucks and I think it's a bad idea, but that's a whole other topic.

As I said above, if you miss the flight for whatever reason, chances are it's your fault or inability to allow enough time, listen to the traffic report or whatever.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:47 pm

I don't disagree with overbooking, as long as they put you on another flight. You give the airline money in exhange for a seat. If you are paying for the seat, then it is your seat. By not rebooking you, they are violating the agreement

RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:12 pm

If you miss your originally ticketed flight due to being late to the airport for whatever reason, it's not like putting you on a later flight is displacing somebody else. That seat you are occupying would be empty of revenue passengers anyway (this doesn't allow for, say, if they had to reaccommodate misconnects). In likelihood, they filled your previous seat you missed with a nonrev or standby ticketed passenger.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Wed Aug 28, 2002 11:39 pm

I don't have an issue with the general concept of "be on time". People should be responsible for themselves and getting themselves to the airport on time.

I might offer one amendment to US Airways: You lose the value of your ticket if you don't check in at least 30 minutes before departure and you miss your flight.

Case in point:

This past summer, I flew Delta SAT-ATL-DUB. I was going do to IT stuff for a conference, so I had a lot of equipment with me that I couldn't check since I ran out of room.

I entered the security line with one hour to go before my flight. I got pulled aside by security and got the full-court press. Everything was searched. I was fine with this, since after all -- it's their job -- but it took a while. Every network cable, every AC adapter, everything in my toiletry bag was all swabbed. It took 45 minutes to do the whole thing.

So, I run to my plane, which was almost ready to close, and I'm the last one on. You know what that means. Repeat security performance, but this time, not as bad.

If this was on US Airways, and I had been 2 minutes later, they would have left, and I would have been screwed due to something that wasn't really directly my fault.

It all comes down to this: businesses have to be easy to do business with. That's one of the reasons that Southwest is so successful -- no BS from end-to-end, straight answers, ease of business. If US makes it more difficult to do business with them, then people will vote with their fares. I don't see this as being a good thing for US.


PS - And this whole transatlantic drink thing: how cheap. Give me the booze already.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:07 am

I think you could make an argument either way about cancelling a ticket when you don't show up on time; where they've really screwed up is by not allowing non-refundable tickets to get a standby seat.

It costs absolutely nothing to let somebody onto a flight where there would be an empty seat anyway - in fact it frees up a seat on a later flight that could produce revenue! When I travel for business I usually book a return ticket for a worse case scenario time meaning that if the meetings run long and it takes forever to get to the airport I'll still be OK. I usually end up getting to the airport early, and it is nice to know that I could get on an earlier flight if there is a seat available (lately there always is). I know full well that those who bought refundable tickets are prioritized over me and my non-refundable ticket - no problem with that at all, they paid more and deserve better service.

I cannot see why I should take US on my next flight - usually the DC-NY shuttle flights cost nearly the same on Delta and US, and both leave hourly. But now Delta seems like the much more flexible option (and they still have free booze!). Why should I buy a full fare on US when I get nearly the same thing with Delta at a much lower cost?
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:13 am

Mark my words, US and any carrier that follows suit will face a litany of lawsuits over this. If they're going to use "this is a contract argument", then they're going face the wrath of consumer groups when they cancel flights and place people on flights on wich they weren't ticketed. It cuts both ways.

This is BAD move...pure and simple.

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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:53 am

The funniest part in the press release is that this new ticket policy doesn't apply to Europe-USA tickets. Why? Because US already applied the "new" rules on these tickets (like every airline outside the USA/Canada).

BTW second airline to stop serving booze on transatlantic flight.
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RE: US Airways New Ticket Policy

Thu Aug 29, 2002 1:47 am

After having some bad experiences with USAir in the past, I have been able to take trips where I did not have to rely on them. This new policy only enforces my committment to continue to not fly USAirways unless I absolutely have to. Reasonable service has never been their forte. They used to cancel a flight if the ticket sales were not to a certain level; they stopped that practice (I think) after they stranded Ralph Nader with this trick.

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