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AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:39 am

Air Canada has announced that effective November 2002, it'll launch 3x daily Montreal-Atlanta service. Flights will operated by a CRJ under Air Canada JAZZ title.

MONTREAL-ATLANTA DEPARTS ARRIVES
AC8020 0700 0953
AC8022 1350 1643
AC8024 1700 1953
ATLANTA-MONTREAL DEPARTS ARRIVES
AC8021 0720 0958
AC8023 1025 1303
AC8025 1715 1953
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:44 am

Nice to see them expand. Now let's see how long this one lasts. Not because the market is not there, but because AC has not launched a succsesful transborder route in a long time and of those launched in recent times, only four, if I am not mistaken, are still around. Those are Miami-Vancouver, which went from year-round daily to winter weekends, and Toronto-Westchester, and Phoenix-Vancouver/Calgary (I am still very surprised Phoenix-Calgary has lasted this long).
a.
 
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STT757
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:57 am

Hopefully there will be many more flights from YUL once the new transborders concourses open.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Noise
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:58 am

What the %$#@, are you serious!? Well that's nice! Very nice!
 
scottysair
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:31 am

Yes, it is!!! Noise, I possible sure that about YUL as for new terminal by transborder will be opened it up real soon. I'm serious of yourself about on the a.net. Good to hear as AC Jazz were expand more flight to ATL. This is my brother were use lived into ATL now. I'm guess that I did already flew to ATL as on Aug 15, 2002 on B767-400ER on Delta. This is my favorite airline is Delta. Because, I do exactly were struck on Delta FF miles as for much long time. Well, see ya!!!
 
srbmod
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:38 am

It makes me wonder if Delta will launch ASA or Comair flights (in addition to mainline flights) in response to this. It would be a good fit to the current Delta Connection flights to YYZ and YOW out of ATL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:12 am

Delta Connection already flies ATL-YUL. Once a day, I think.
a.
 
flyyul
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:24 am

ASA has plans to bring YUL-ATL to three daily....

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:42 am

Delta operates 2x daily ATL-YYZ. Delta Connection 4x daily, AC mainline 4x daily.

10 dailies including 6 mainline.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Noise
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:40 am

Thanks for bringing that up Neil, we really wanted to know that.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:55 am

No problem Chris.

Just a subtle hint that whatever time of day a YUL'er wants to fly to ATL, there is a handy connection......thru YYZ.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
westjet_8
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:58 am

PHX to Calgary is doing so well that America West started on the route along with the existing AC flight.
Canadian. RIP 1999
 
flyyul
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:02 pm

Good point Chris! (noise)..

I know now HoW TO AVOID a connection in YYZ, but thank you  Big thumbs up

Its funny that in a matter of 4 months, tYUL-ATL has gone from 2 daily to a potential of 6 daily..

Very neat.

Mark
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:15 pm

What is a potential of 6 flights ????

If I take a potential flight to ATL, do I still get there?


 Yeah sure

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
caribb
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:33 pm

Chris,

Look at how this thread has evolved, doesn't it remind you of a conversation we had several weeks ago? All it takes is an "innoncent" post and like Pavlolv's Dogs everyone falls into place... It doesn't take much other that the term "YUL" to ge tthe ball rolling. The only winner is the one in control and like usual it's not the dogs....

Nice to see AC Jazz on this run, the addition of flights should stumulate the route and hopefully generate some new traffic. Nice to see routes out of Montreal evolve and change. I wish them all the success they can get. Hopefully some more competition will come on other US routes in the future.

Doug
 
lymanm
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:07 pm

I don't know much about the city of Atlanta. What about it (except, perhaps, it's size) justifies this many flights to Montreal? I can understand Delta feeding it's hub, but AC? I'm being serious - someone enlighten me. Unless your name is FLYYUL, lol
buhh bye
 
caribb
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:16 pm

See Chris,

..the feeding frenzy begins...

Doug
 
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:24 pm

No offence to those residing in YUL, but I too would like to know what justifies 3 daly non-stop YUL-ATL flights? Now, of course, one would assume AC did their homework, re market research, forecasting capacity, etc, but
Montreal, Quebec - Atlanta, Georgia? YYZ-ATL service I can understand, but my eyebrows are raised at this new route.

Again, I am NOT trying to start a flame war here, YUL guys. I simply would
like to have your input on this.

Regards,
Canadi>nBoy
YYZ
 
caribb
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:43 pm

With all due repect guys, I suspect you and your friends are trying to start a flame. This process is being repeated time and time again and for what purpose?? They way you all coordinate an attack on every YUL post really serves not other purpose other than to maybe have a good laugh at our expense...? just speculation, no proof to back that up though...
 
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:49 pm

With all due respect, Caribb, please refrain from being paranoid, and do not "label" me as a flamestarter simply because I hail from YYZ! That is very narrow minded. I made it VERY clear in my post I was not trying to start a flame war.

I am asking a question here, and simply would like an answer/feedback.

Is there anyone in YUL, or elsewhere, who can get past this nonsense and
have an adult discussion about this topic?

Kind regards
Canadi>nBoy
YYZ



 
flyyul
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:51 pm

There are over 85,000 pax per year that fly Montreal-Atlanta, thats more than Montreal-boston, and there are how many flights between YUL and BOS... 10 was the last time I counted.

Toronto's YYZ-ATL is estimated at around 135,000 pax per yerar according to StatCan. Now tell me, does the discrepancy between YUL and YYZ, means that you get 7 flights by DL, plus 5 A319s to ATL (which usually are half-full anyway) to YYZ, and we cant supprot a few CRJ's?????? Comeone...

YUL-ATL is more than YUL-BOS or YUL-PHL, all of which are served by AC CRJ's. Furthermore, ATL is a growing market, and since 1995, the StatCan numbers show that this is one of the markets that has grown the most out of YUL anyway. In 1995, about 50,000 pax travelled between YUL and ATL, and now its somwhere near 85,000 pax, and getting larger by the day.

For those YYZers, of which I have much respect for (except for two clowns onthis board), YYZ is a very big market. IT IS THE dominant one in Canada by far. However, there are other markets with potential. Toronto is not 6 times larger than Montreal, its about 1.5 times. TOronto is not overwhelmingly richer than Montreal, because it suffers from the highest cost of living burden in Eastern Canada (by far!). Toronto is no longer the only city that is booming, Montreal is catching up just fine thank you very much. You simply need to consult your nearest StatCan bureau, review the indexes from this year. YOU Will be STUNNED to find that Montreal has not only produced more jobs than Toronto this year, it has also had more non-residential construction than Toronto.

And this is welcomed news, to knowthat we are getting out of Neil's YYZ717 "city that is getting smaller, city that is declining, poor low-pci, city made up of 3rd world citizens" view of Montreal. With this, the justification for new non-stopsd out of Montreal just keeps rising. MANY airlines have expressed interest in the Montreal market, many of which are not happy with Dorval airport, and many of whom are waiting to see a more modern and expanded Dorval. But with YYZ becoming so big, and bigger by the year, (and with all due respect) it will be hard for you guys especially, to try to think that there is life outside YYZ.....

And for those YYZers who would ask 'well who is interested in flying to Montreal'... well let me compile a little list here..

-Lufthansa wants a piece of YUL-FRA... Air Canda started its 2nd flight to FRA from Montreal for a purpose. For the last 2 weeks, the flights have been sold-out. With nearly 500 seats to FRA per day, expect to see LH back someday soon. This is also been confirmed by several travel agents on the Montreal board, who are in constant contact with LH reps.

-MEA Montreal-Beyrut/

-Alitalia Montreal-Milan... AZ has been in discussions with the ADM for a little while now. The interest is there, who knows if it will ever materialize.

Ans then the success of Austrian Airlines, who will expand YYZ and YUL at the same time, will knowing that is doing fantastic in both markets.. now this kind of news, would just crush Neil...

Mark
 
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:36 am

FLYYUL, thank you for the data and information re YUL-ATL. I had no idea of the stats. And I'm impressed at the numbers. I'm sorry for the fact that there seems to be some animosity between some YYZ and YUL members here. But, FLYYUL, please do not include ALL YYZ'ers in your opinion that states as YYZ gets bigger, we will be hard pressed to realize there is life outside of Toronto. That is rather naive and narrowminded, and you strike me as a very intelligent guy, Mark. I do not appreciate that comment, as I, among many others who reside here, are liberal minded people with a vast peripheral view. I am a very well travelled individual, as are many people who reside in Toronto, and we have a great love and admiration for many cities throughout the world, including the great city of Montreal (which has, by the way, some of the best restaurants I have ever eaten in!).

I really hope some, I repeat, some of the YYZ and YUL members can get over their animosity towards each other. We're all Canadians, guys. We're all a part of this vast and beautiful and unique land. We are all a part of the rich Canadian mosaic, as I stated in an earlier post which was deleted. It may sound cheesy and corny, but it is the truth. And the truth, in many cases,
is simple indeed. It's our pride that impedes establishing positive relationships with one another.

Here's wishing Dorval and all of Canada the best. And in truth, yeah, Dorval really needs to expand and build a new terminal(s) in order to accommodate future growth, which I do hope your city continues to enjoy. Economic growth and prosperity for Montreal and the province of Quebec means advancement for all of Canada.

Kind regards,
Canadi>nBoy
YYZ and Beyond
 
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:37 am

MAH: Wasn't PHL-YUL started within the last couple of years? That has been successful.
 
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yyz717
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:46 am

The problem is that quoting StatsCan statistics about city pair size does not translate into a "market" that airlines should automatically serve. These stats are raw, and ignore the yield, the geographic issues (ie, can YUL-ATL be served thru YYZ), aircraft availability, greater profit potential on other routes, etc. YYZ's more southwestern location (from YUL) makes it a natural hubbing city for YUL'ers bounds for the US, for instance. This is not reflected in the raw Statscan numbers.

While it is good that AC Jazz has added this market, there is a danger that the market is "flooded" at least in the short term, by this 67% capacity increase. This could cause either Delta Conn or AC Jazz to pull out if the addl traffic can't be generated.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 am

Speaking of Jazz, is it known (or projected) how many CRJ's they plan to add to the fleet? Will these aircraft type eventually replace the Dash-8's? Also, what other mainline routes is AC considering or actively planning to transfer over to Jazz operations?

Canadi>nBoy



 
Noise
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:53 am

"See Chris,

..the feeding frenzy begins...

Doug"

 Crying,  Crying,  Crying Sad but true, I wasn't aware of this when I posted my message. My bad.
 
flyyul
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:57 am

Neil,

You are right... but a few pax can benefit from trans-atlantic connections, as well as domestic connections. It wont be in large numbers, but you dont large numbers to reach profit on a CRJ.

Mark
 
caribb
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:00 am

Canadi>nboy -

I think calling me paranoid, narrow minded and childish is a little over the top and is off that mark of respect you asked us to uphold. I never resorted to calling you or anyone names. That being said please don't take offence to what I posted, it wasn't really directly aimed at you rather "you" as a YYZ group who regularly respond in the YUL posts, although I can see how you concluded that. Furthermore I've read a couple of your recent posts and you've eloquently expressed yourself with regards to how we should all get along and I share your views. Just to be clear let me assure you of the following

First I have nothing against Toronto the city, the airport or it's fabulous dynamic multi cultural population. It's an incredible city that I visit quite often. As a Canadian I'm proud of it and recognize it's critical central role in our business and economic life here in Canada. I'm amazed each time how much bigger it seems to get and with that a feeling that it would be a nice place to live in someday. So I'm sorry if you took my posts to be anti-Toronto, that I can assure you wasn't my intention, far from it.

Second, I've seen almost every YUL thread degrade into these same we vs they discussions. Sometimes they turn into and informative bantering, other times insults are thrown at each other. It appears that when "YUL" is mentioned in the header it's like an invitation to get involved and work up the "Yulers". I know it's also gone the other direction as well, I'm not saying there are not guilty people of that on this side either. Sadly it's the same folks each time from YYZ and YUL. I don't see this happening in posts about YYZ, YVR, YYC or YOW rather just us. So sorry if I appear paranoid but it feels like we are under attack all the time by you folks. Montreal is not a powerhouse in this world and like Mark and yourself I also take pride in my city and hate to see us put down or worse "put in our place" that's all. I'd just like to see a thread like this one go to it's conclusion without ever having to end up discussing the value of it versus Toronto because quite frankly we all know there is no valuable comparison between our cities. We compliment each others in many ways but their respective roles are totally different. It's not necessary every time to go this route.

Lastly, I'll refrain to include myself in this because I do not work in aviation and my knowledge rises to the level of an enthusiast but there are people in these discussions on both sides who are aviation-insider intelligent and well informed about the operations of this business. Furthermore they have contacts and ways to get information that the rest of us are not privileged to. That includes posters here from YYZ and YUL. What irks me and obviously you too is how we do not listen to each other and give the other person a chance to express himself without being summarily dismissed. It ends up feeling like we are talking to a brick wall. So rather than intelligent discussion I see all sorts of doors closing on potentially interesting open ended discussion. As you said, and I agree, there are many perspectives out there and unless we have direct contact with the source none of us knows the truth other than to speculate and make logical conclusions from our our environments. We just might not see what's inside each other's environement that explains where we are coming from. Sadly this animosity really revolves around Mark & Neil and I wish they'd both just shake hands and move on. Neither one is going to convince the other of anything it seems. This negativity is spreading to others and people both there and here and starting to draw the wrong conclusions about each other.

So rather than attack one another I'd like to see some openness from all of us. A willingness to listen to each other and accept that what we think might not necessarily be the absolute truth. Nothing stays the same forever and that includes dynamic travel markets, routes, frequencies, politics even growing/contracting immigrant populations all of which affect the types of air service we both get and the changes that need to occur to accomodate them. Old views and concepts are exactly that, old. I think also it's important to remember that especially in Canada regional perspectives really vary greatly on all sorts of issues so we must respect them and realize our view may be totally contrary to those of others. The West, Ontario, French Quebec, English Quebec, The Atlantic Provinces, the North, the Natives etc.. we all have ended up being so determined to protect our own little piece of the pie that we've lost site of what the whole country is about and in doing so we tend to block each other out. Kinda sad. Best of all though as Canadians I think it's so important we support one another. Both Montreal and Toronto's growth only helps us all in the end. A busier YUL will lead extra people through to YYZ.

So I'm willing to make the effort and I hope everyone else is too.

Doug

 
Mark_D.
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:24 am


Whoa Nellie,

looks like some serious heart-to-hearts going on, around here! Me I don't mind any of these conversations (even Neily (Yyz717) is fun to talk with at times, for instance  Smile )

Canadi>nBoy No offence to those residing in YUL, but I too would like to know what justifies 3 daly non-stop YUL-ATL flights?

Hi Canadi>anboy, and sure no offense taken here, with that. I don't know either! (I think it's kind of a spunky and bold move by AC, actually. Even though that sure is a long CRJ flight, gotta be one of the longest scheduled ones out there, on the continent or maybe Worldwide. And some talk about it (over at Montreal Airports messageboard) about it just being a market-sabre-rattling political-type move. So all kinds of views expressed about this so far, it seems.

Cheers
 
quebecair727
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RE: AC Jazz Launch YUL-ATL

Sun Sep 01, 2002 4:21 am

Just to put a lighter touch here, Montrealers are heavy Coca-Cola drinkers. Therefore, we need a direct link with Atlanta.

I am going to ATL this October. Can't wait to go there and see the airport. It will be my first time there.

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