ouboy79
Posts: 4114
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:05 am

From WSJ:

NEW YORK -- AMR Corp.'s American Airlines changed rules overnight on nonrefundable tickets to eliminate the one-year grace period on missed flights after Oct. 1, and to charge a $100 fee beginning next year for standby flight changes.

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020830/1156000397_1.html

AA hasn't made a public statement about this yet -- but these were found by pulling up the fare descriptions, as the article states.

Yup -- this industry is about to undertake a huge makeover.  Smile
 
cmb320
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2000 1:24 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:09 am

You know, I never thought I would say this, but here goes: GO SOUTHWEST!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:11 am

Yep, CMB320 - looks like any corporations travel managers who really do try to book the lowest (read non refundable) fare are quickly being limited to Southwest. Because in business, plans change. These dolts at U, UAL and AMR might have just given SWA the tonic it needs to see a profit for the third quarter.
 
Boiler Special
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 8:23 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:27 am

... and then when the traveler misses his Southwest flight he can upgrade to full fare just for the priviledge of being allowed to standby on a later flight. If you're good in finding cheap Southwest fares, in many cases that upgrade will cost more than $100.

For the time being, the one year grace period still exists. But don't expect that to last now...

Don't always expect Southwest to be the most pricing-friendly airline.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:44 am

A friend bought a ticket yesterday to europe using Expedia's Priceline-like feature and he got an USAirways flight via PIT. with only 1:15min layover both way. He is very concened about the retun part that he would be able to clear customs and still catch the next flight, or else he would be stuck half way. I guess buying withouth knowing which airline you'll be fliying is looking less attractive. Then again that is what the airlines want. Im sure less people will use this feature
Step into my office, baby
 
LJ
Posts: 4147
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:50 am

Mt99, I don't see the problem. If your friend booked the entire trip as one trip on USAirways, USAirways will probably, if due to any delay your friend misses his flight in PIT, offer a seat on the next available flight(that's at least the policy of all airlines). However if he has two separate tickets you may have a problem.

BTW Don't USAirways have through-checkin for connecting passengers?
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:59 am

Yet neither of them went as far as US did in terms of the standby or status fares.
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:07 am

Lowfareair,

Perhaps this movement by American Airlines and United Airlines goes to show which of US Airways' new policies are worthwhile. It seems AA/UA aren't putting themselves in a position to further piss off business travelers by eliminating standby or status fares.
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:11 am

Seiple: My sentiments exactly. If they offer the exact same service as WN for WN-type fares, why wouldn't people take WN for the friendlier employees and more relaxed fees.
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:19 am

Southwest still needs to coexist with the other majors. There is room for both. Most travelers going somewhere like Fayetteville/Bentonville, Arkansas are on business. That market isn't yet developed to the point it could support Southwest (perhaps AirTran, with a subsidy I'm sure they'd get). A company one of my relatives works for requires travel to Jackson, TN often. Can't get there on a low-fare carrier (barely supports a few J-31 a day with AA Connection). While business travelers have the choice of lower fares these days, that battle is being fought in the major cities. Business travelers still require the services of the other major airlines to get them to most of the airports in the country.

It's too bad Southwest doesn't offer a pay club for business travelers. American's business center at Chicago is heavily used (has something like 45 conference rooms). Some people do a day of meetings without ever leaving airports. As this is something that subsidizes itself, perhaps Southwest could develope such a scheme in the future.
 
UAL-Fan
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 1999 1:36 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:25 am

No matter how you look at it you're ahead on Southwest the way I see this. If you miss your flight, are they not saying you just lost the full value of your ticket?

Even if you have to upgrade to a full WN fare you still keep the value of your existing ticket I think.

Am I not interpreting this correctly?
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:59 am

You are correct UAL fan. Boiler - With Southwest's highest one way fare of $299, you are most likely going to still spend less than you would with the $100 penalty plus and difference in the airfare on the others. And of course, if you're in a meeting that runs way late and can't make it to the airport, then you're looking at a full fare on the other guys with zero credit towards the purchase, versus the remaining value of your ticket on SWA going towards the lowest available fare...and as long as you've missed your first flight...there's no standing by - you just get a card like everybody else. Again - if a third quarter profit was questionable for SWA, this move by the others will give them just the boost they need to achieve the profit.
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:28 am

Boiler Special, hello from a fellow Boilermaker!

Southwest has built up a reputation as being THE Low Fare airline... but in many cases, the majors' restricted non-refundable web fares are cheaper.

Just try pricing itineraries out of IND on any given day, any given routing, any given time frame.
no wire hangers!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:30 am

Boiler Special, hello from a fellow Boilermaker!

Southwest has built up a reputation as being THE Low Fare airline... but in many cases, the majors' restricted non-refundable web fares are cheaper.

Just try pricing itineraries out of IND on any given day, any given routing, any given time frame


Then, change your plans.
 
UA744Flagship
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 1999 1:55 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:43 am

Huh? I'm not bashing Southwest. Far from it--you can at least depend on Southwest for "reasonable" fares.

But the case remains that much of the time, high-cost carriers' web fares are cheaper, though more restrictive.

In my case, I've priced out my trips back home to CA for Thanksgiving and Winter Break, and in both case AA was the cheapest, with fares below $250, after taxes! That is quite remarkable...

I am thankful I bought before today, because I can standby without penalty on these fares... keep in mind the times weren't the most attractive for these fares I locked in.
no wire hangers!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:51 am

My point, UA744 - according to this topic, AA, U, and UAL have adopted a "use it or lose it" policy. Changes before flight time cost you a minimum of a hundred bucks. Changes after flight time don't exist....you lose all your money. On Southwest, you get 100% of any remaining airfare applied towards another flight. Now, people can pay a buck or two less than SWA on advance purchase tickets, but they are giving up all flexibility. Get sick and can't travel when you planned? SWA will credit you the full amount towards another ticket. The others will charge you a hundred bucks. Meeting runs late and you can't phone ahead to change your reservation? Sorry - you lose. You'll have to buy a one way ticket home - with nothing credited towards that ticket. The other airlines would always undercut SWA by a buck or two...but they haven't been able to make any money. Now, they have the same price, but they give you less value. And in todays economy, business and leisure travellers are looking for value.
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:18 am

Hey, you get what you pay for ... If you enjoy the multitude of services, conveniences and network of Southwest, then by all means, its the airline for you! There's a Wal-Mart out there for everyone!

funny thing is, "Use-It or Loose-It" is not a new concept. Car rentals & hotels charge you for "no shows." Concert/theatre/sport tickets are only good for that particular event, etc. This isn't something new.

Priceline, Hotwire tickets/reservations ... These are non-changeable, non-refundable, non-upgradeable, non-standbyable. People purchase these tickets with this in mind, because, as you said ... They are looking for value. So why would the consumer expect any different by purchasing from the airlines directly, with these same fare rules in mind? A thought to ponder ...
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:22 am

KKMolokai - aside from an assigned seat, what multitude of services can I expect for a low fare ticket on the Target, Sears, and Neiman Marcus's of airlines? You know, you can take something back to Wal Mart and get your money back, no questions asked and regardless of the price. Same product that you can by at other stores too. Quite a concept...it's called "value for the dollar".
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:09 am

Goingboeing,

Again, you get what you pay for. Obviously you are a wal-mart shopper, or you wouldn't have to ask that question. By the way, what time does Southwest's flight depart for London? Oh, and I hope you're not on the plump side, Southwest will be the first to sell you two seats! Yeah, now I see the value for the dollar!
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:18 am

KKMolokai - don't have a need to go to London. Sorry. While I am considered "obese" by the CDC (6'4 240 pounds), I have no problem fitting in their seats. But you know something, what kind of "accomodation" are the other airlines going to offer the people of size when they switch from MD80's that are running half full to RJ's and that are operating 99% full flights?? Think they might want a little revenue with those seats? And on AA you can stand by...for a hundred bucks. YOu can change a ticket...for a hundred bucks...you can miss the flight...and give up your total airfare. BUT....and this is important...they fly to London. Thats some value, ain't it?
 
bobcat
Posts: 1141
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:28 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sat Aug 31, 2002 1:27 pm

I have flown a few times on JetBlue's trans-con flights.
(JFK/IAD to LGB) I was expecting the planes to be full
of leisure flyers. Instead, I've seen quite a lot of business people flying on them. A few that I chatted with that JetBlue is the best thing that ever happend to their companies. They mostly fly JFK-LA for business. Long Beach isn't that far off. The fares offered by JetBlue is quite irresistable to them... Unfortunately, JetBlue's route structure is hardly making a dent with the majors...
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:29 am

Goingboeing,

I think its obvious you haven't a need to travel abroad, thus the reason you're content with Southwest, and thus the reason you're missing the bigger picture. But as I've stated before, there's a Wal-Mart out there for everyone. By the way ... American and American Eagle are two seperate companies. Oh, and remind me please ... what's the value in SWA charging passengers for two seats?
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
RickB
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:11 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 6:40 am

Can someone confirm one thing for me, I have a few flights booked with AA flying to and from LAS via Dallas, if the flight arrives late into Dallas, I am assuming that if I miss the connection, AA will book me onto the next available flight at no extra cost to me (despite the tickets being non refundable) because its their delay that cost me the connection?

Only I had booked flights with a two hour stopover in Dallas a few months ago ($250 each for tickets from NY > LAS > MIA > NY - it sounded too cheap but I wasn't going to complain !!) and I got a call a couple of weeks ago from BA (who I booked the tickets through) that a number of flights had changed and I now only had a 50 minute stopover !!

Dont want to be stuck in Dallas - when the slot machines beckon !!

Anyone know if I have to change terminals at Dallas for flights from NY and flights to Vegas?

Thanks in advance !!

RickB
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:10 am

United has NOT adopted the "use it or loose it" as USAirways has. United still allows for standby on an earlier or later flight. Star Gold members can still get their flights changed on the SAME day and get it confirmed... it used to be you could change it in advance and not pay a fee... now the waiver is only valid for same day travel, same day you are changing.

Delta has been charging for standby or confirmed flight-same-day for a while.... so this isn't anything new..

-nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 8:17 am

Quoting from internatl delta sources...
"Same day travel standby //outbound or return// any passenger....regardless of fare type... may standby for an earlier or later same day flight at no additional cost. ASC does //not// apply."

There are exceptions for The Delta Shuttle and Delta Express. International flights do not allow for standby. Different day standby is prohibited.

This is the most recent policy dated 21AUG2001.
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:12 am

Rickb,

Is your entire trip to/from LAS on AA? Or are you changing from AA to another carrier in DFW? If you're on AA all the way, and there is a delay beyond your control that causes you to miss your connecting flight, of course AA would rebook you without question. If however, you have two separate tickets, one on AA, say from DFW-LAS-DFW, and say another connecting ticket on DL between SAT-DFW-SAT, and these tickets were issued separately on two different airline stock (tickets), then the fare rules for each individual ticket apply. If however, using the same example above, is ticketed all on one airline stock (purchased as one full ticket, and not separately), then again, the airlines would protect you on the next flight, if you missed your original due to a delay beyond your control.

Hope this answers your question.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:47 pm

There have been no "use it or lose it" changes to UA's non-refundablr policy. The following changes HAVE been briefed:

No more waivers of fees (excess bags, non-refundable tkt, change of date fees ect.)

1k's and Premier executives are no longer exempt from fees. Including change of date fees.

The cost of upgrade coupons and award tkts has risen for the first time since 1992. Ten years is a long time to go without a price change.

UA is now charging for printing E-tickets.

So Mr. Gold Card Member can buy a refundable tkt and have all the flexiblity he wants, or by a NON-refundable tkt, and standby for and earlier flight for free. His mileage status will give him an advantage, and of coarse if the airplane is full we will get him right on.

I can't understand why this is hard to understand or why the grubling over the changes.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:25 pm

Ok, I've been corrected by a friend at Deltaflot.

Delta only charges if they can confirm you for the flight or if the fare rules specify an earlier flight, then you must pay the fee....

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
RickB
Posts: 807
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:11 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:53 pm

KKmolokai,

Thanks for that - all of the flights are on a single ticket with AA so I will be okay.

Cheers

RickB
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:01 am

UALPHLCS: the price for an AWARD TICKET(aka FF miles) should never increase. There shouldn't be any inflation with FF miles.
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:17 pm

People have so many FF miles they have found a way to pass them along in their wills after they are dead. FF miles are great don't get me wrong but free it free. Most people just end up hording them anyway, and many commentatorshave been speculating about what will be donre w/ the billions of miles sitting in peoples accounts. Well the answer is it now costs slightly more to get a free tkt. Free tkts are just that, FREE, the airline has to pay to transport those folks, In tough times why not make it slightly more expensive to get a free tkt. UA has not made it cost prohibitive, (The awards have only risen 5k) just a larger drain on an account, and more flights to fly to get the whole family to MCO. Its smart, its buisness.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:25 pm

Then make the FF miles eventually expire. Coupons for free food do. That way there aren't trillions of miles in the system. Maybe they expire after 4 or 5 years. They are supposed to reward FREQUENT flyers, not just your everyday flyer. If I wanted to, I could've received United Mileage Plus miles for my flights to Colorado recently, but opted not to.

Look at the low-budget carriers. they really do reward FREQUENT flyers. Maybe they should start calling the elite programs of major airlines the FF program, and the regular ones(Skymiles, Mileage Plus, etc) the Thank You for flying program.
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:46 pm

this is ridiculous news for JetBlue.

this airline is going to make so much money in the years to come its gonna be unbelievable.

aa and ua as they once were are finnished. the model has completely changed.
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:03 pm

Miles did expire. up until about 5 years ago. It was a cry fromt eh customers that propted the change.

When my father started at UA in 1969 they used to award a plaque to customers who flew 100,000 miles in a LIFETIME. Now we have people who do that in a single YEAR. They earn more miles than they can use, they wan to eventually use them. So UA et.al. gave the customer what they wanted. But now they would like more of those miles back for the service. The problem is fundementally airlines are trying to serve all the people all the time. You want this the other guy doesn't. Airlines have fallen into this trap, they simply can't be all things to everyone. So no matter what they do SOMEONE is going to be outraged at their flaming stupidity, even if he's the ONLY guy in the world affected by that decision.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
fly_emirates
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 11:22 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Mon Sep 02, 2002 11:01 pm

seems strange what is happening in the us airline industry! i know that me working in an airline that is not an american carrier make me miss some things, or not be aware of them, but there is just one thing i want to say. Airlines in my part of the world are regulated by the governement, and they can't play with their rules as they want. What USairways and AA are doing is not fare at all. I think the federal government should have a word in what is happening in the USA regarding airlines!
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:59 am

btw, only the cost of upgrades at united went up...

try

to

learn

to

read

it

really

really

helps!

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
Guest

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:14 am

SegmentKing: I know that only the cost of upgrades went up. My point is that the mileage award for them shouldn't have, and defintely not 50%. It's called devaluating miles. I would rather have miles expire than awards go up.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:19 am

mileage awards haven't gone up.... just the amount of miles needed for an upgrade on a paid ticket....

hence why i put some people need to learn to read...

Btw, I see it making and maintaining status even MORE important...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:26 am

Oh, and remind me please ... what's the value in SWA charging passengers for two seats?

Ask anyone who has had to share half of their seat with a "person of size" what the value of that policy is...
 
KKMolokai
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 2:06 am

RE: U's Changes Spread...UA & AA Now

Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:57 am

Enjoy your Southwest flight!!
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.

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