panamair
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Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:09 am

Picked up a 30 year old Pan Am timetable from a memorabilia store this past weekend (it was effective for the Feb 1 to Apr 29 1972 time period) and boy, not only did Pan Am fly to some far-flung cities one could not fathom flying the American flag today, but the long, roundabout routes they took to get there...in one word AMAZING! Here are some examples:

PA 76 New York-Keflavik-Glasgow-Hamburg-Warsaw 707 Tuesdays only
PA 152 New York-Boston-Santa Maria-Lisbon-Casablanca 707 Thursdays only
PA 186 New York-Dakar-Monrovia-Abidjan-Cotonou-Douala 707 Mondays only
PA 188 New York-Dakar-Monrovia-Accra-Lagos-Entebbe-Nairobi 707 Thursdays only
PA 254 Miami-San Juan-Lisbon-Madrid-Rome 707 Tuesdays/Saturdays only
PA 811 LAX-Honolulu-Nadi-Sydney-Denpasar-Hong Kong 747 LAX-SYD;707 SYD-HKG Wed only
PA 842 Saigon-Manila-Guam-Honolulu-San Francisco 747
PA 114 New York-Paris-Rome-Beirut-Damascus-Tehran 747 NYthru Rome; 707 Rome thru Tehran Tuesdays only (imagine flying an American carrier between Beirut, Damascus, and Tehran!)

and of course, a sample routing of the crown jewel RTW 747 route:

PA 2 New York-LHR-FRA-Istanbul-Beirut-Delhi-Bangkok-Hong Kong-Tokyo-Honolulu-Los Angeles...no wonder PA 2 was always a day late by the time it got to Bangkok or HongKong...

Pan Am...truly a legend in its time....
 
NZ767
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:12 am

Oh for the days before codeshare came along.
Look at those African destinations that were served.
Interesting to note, that no US carrier serves the African continent anymore.  Smile
 
zrs70
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:14 am

Check on ebay for old timetables! They have a great selection!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
VS11
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Thu Sep 05, 2002 1:01 pm

Were these routes profitable? I imagine they had to stop at each of these cities....who travelled on these flight?

regards,
vs11
 
Leo
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:32 am

Pan Am's timetable was perfectly normal for that time. All airlines operated long-haul with plenty of stops and at very low frequencies.

Only with today's long-haul capability do we find them strange.

Lufthansa:
FRA-AMS-LAX with B707 and B747, FRA-LAX was not yet possible non-stop.

KLM:
AMS-FRA-ZRH-LIS-Port of Spain-Caracas-Curacao-Panama-Quito-Lima with DC8
AMS-ZRH-FCO-Beirut-Karachi-Bankok-Singapore-Sydney-Melbourne with B747

BA:
LHR-FRA-ATH-KHI-CMB-SIN

etc.


 
Sabena332
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:41 am

Lufthansa:
FRA-AMS-LAX with B707 and B747, FRA-LAX was not yet possible non-stop.


Leo,

you can see in the James Bond movie "Diamond Fever" that Roger Moore is flying with LH from AMS to LAX but I guess that the plane is a DC-10.

Patrick

Btw: Very interesting that PA has served so many destinations in Africa.
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
conair
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:02 am

In 1972 from memory LH Flew a FRA-ATH-KWI-DEL-BKK-HKG TYO flight with B747 aircraft I seem to remember that in mid 1972 this flight was hijacked with the late president Kennedy's Children aboard allthough the people doing the deed did'nt know it! I seem to remember that at the time the world's largest ransom was paid secretly in Beirut to secure the release of aircraft & passengers. I can remember flying on PA55 in 1986 from Heathrow to Franfurt which was an extension of (I Think) the DTW-LHR route with B747 and we flew on to FRA on an A310 and coming back a few days later on PA103 which was a B737 aircraft before changeing to B747 at LHR to go on to JFK

Regard's
Conair
 
picarus
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:45 am

Thanks Panamair...I remember flying LAX-HNL on 811 and connecting to 841 very late at night on my way to MNL when I was a young lad.

The return, of course, brought me back on 842 and 812(?). I remember it like it was yesterday...my first international trip ever and the unexpected (by me) stop at GUM. Unbeknownst to me, I had dropped my ticket and boarding pass while disembarking at the air terminal as it poured down rain. I thought I was going to be stuck in Guam the rest of my life! Fortunately, someone turned in my tickets to a flight attendant and we were reunited.

I remember spending hours reading over the PA timetable while in the Philippines. Couldn't wait to get back on board the big 747 and head home.

Picarus
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:02 am

My grandparents friend flew PA 76 to New York from Warsaw with one of the Pan Am 707s..............damn im jealous
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Sabena332

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:12 am

Patrick,

it was a 707 alright in the Bond movie (the original title was "Diamonds are Forever" if I remember correctly). I don´t really know whether LH ever really offered such an AMS-LAX flight or whether they were simply the highest bidder to be featured in the movie Big grin . After all, as we all know, the studios give a shit about correctness when it comes to aviation matters... One of the weakest Bond movies in my opinion, but that´s of course a completely different matter.

Daniel Smile
 
Guest

RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:22 am

 
Guest

RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:25 am



PAN AM ROUTE MAP AUGUST 1971
 
dc863
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:46 am

Lufthansa did indeed stop at AMS on it's FRA-LAX route. Diamonds Are Forever correctly illustrated the aircraft as a 707C the type which was actually used on this routing.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:49 am

@ Daniel: You are correct, the original title was "Diamonds are Forever" as well as the theme song. The German title is Diamantenfieber so I thought it was the same in English. In my opinion was it one of the best Bond movies ever.

@ Soupthansa: Thanks a lot for the scans, very interesting to see the PA network from 1971.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Leo
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:05 am

Lufthansa operated FRA-AMS-LAX initially three times weekly with B707-300 and later 4x weekly with B747-200.

As the outbound and return flight crossed in AMS it was possible to see two LH B747 long-haul flights in AMS in the early and mid-1970's.
 
Sabena332
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:08 am

OK, now I believe you guys, it was a 707. Sorry but it was a long time ago when I saw the movie. As Airsicknessbag wrote, usually the studios give a shit about the aviation scenes but in this movie they are correct as always in Bond movies.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:05 am

And did they have full traffic rights AMS-LAX?

Daniel Smile
 
roguetrader
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:53 am

Good God - that route map is incredible... I can't see how those flights to Africa and those Pacific islands (was Wake Island really popular in those days?) could be profitable under any circumstances. Still, it must have been supremely satisfying to airline management and the US in general to have this unmatched level of world service - and true round the world flights. I think, however, that within this route map, as great as it is, also lies the reason why Pan Am failed.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
TWFirst
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RE: Nz767

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:48 am

>>>Interesting to note, that no US carrier serves the African continent anymore.<<<


I thought Delta still flew to Cairo. Did they end that? I know AA stopped Cairo when they took over TW.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
kl713
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:56 am

hmm....wondering how much movies they showed on those PA flights.... Big grin
732 733 734 73G 738 739 742 743 744 752 763 77E 773 77W 319 320 332 333 343 388 M11 146 DH4
 
Sabena332
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:56 am

DL had a flight with M11 to CAI that continues to DXB but unfortunately they stop flying this route.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
TWFirst
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RE: Sabena332

Tue Sep 10, 2002 5:45 am

They need to update their website - the destination map still shows they serve CAI.

An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:25 am

Hey,that timeframe was when I was born! The first 2 Bond movies had PA 707's to Kingston and Istambul. Diamonds are Forever was a 707. Bond flew to San Monique in Live and Let Die.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
jsnww81
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:26 pm

Interesting to see from those scanned 1971 maps that Pan Am did not serve Paris at all. I seem to remember reading that Pan Am and TWA split up certain sections of Europe in the early 1970s in order to cut losses on longer, thinner routes.

If that's true, I guess TWA got Paris. In my 1974 TWA timetable, TWA has lots of flights from Paris across the Atlantic and throughout Europe.
 
clipper471
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:31 pm

An agreement reached in Oct-1974 called for TWA to suspend its routes across the Pacific and east to Saudi Arabia, including Honolulu, Guam, Taipei, Okinawa, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Bombay, routes to Germany, and the LHR-IAD route;

In return Pan Am would suspend routes to France, Austria, Portugal, Spain, Morocco, LHR-ORD/LAX/PHI (though PA kept the MIA-SJU-LIS-MAD-FCO route).

These routes were cut Feb/Mar-1975.
 
jessman
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:40 pm

I think I see Paris on the top scanned map, it appears as a white dot to the south of London. It seems to have a white line to London and then on to the coast on the boarder of France and Italy (Nice I suppose) and another white line to New York. It is a little hard to see because it has several black lines running perpendicular to the white line from London
 
clipper471
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:41 pm

In addition to my last post...

While Pan Am ended Paris service in 1975. They recommenced service to Paris by way of the National Airlines acquisition Jan-1980 (MIA-CDG). Later in 1981 they reintroduced their own JFK-CDG flight.
 
clipper471
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RE: Pan Am Route System Circa 1972

Tue Sep 10, 2002 12:52 pm

I further notice that beginning Apr-1978 Pan Am reintroduced service to Paris. Though, the only flight was a LHR-CDG Boeing 727 flight, a continuation of the SFO-LHR flight. It ended by Nov-1978.