QANTASpower
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SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:41 pm

Can I just say how absolutely disgusted I am with the sabotage of QF's retail capital raising by SIA. They have leaked to the media stories about starting a proposed third airline and have sent QF's shares below $4. This is well below the offer price of $4.20. This has undermined the retail capital raising. No one minds fair competition but this is way out of line.

SHAME SIA SHAME

 
tsentsan
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:50 pm

Source of your info or is this just your opinion?
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QANTASpower
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:57 pm

SIA this morning via their spokesman stated that we have recently sent "teams" of our people to Australia to look at the domestic market.

Why now SIA. Ansett went under 1 year ago. Or is this some sort of pay back for QF's so called interference in attempts to increase the shareholding in ANZ.

No wonder just about every other country in the world would never allow a foreign carrier such as SIA to set up operations.

The constant threat of SIA entering this market is undermining the ability of QF to raise funds for growth. A problem SIA would never encounter being a protected monopoly.
 
Marara
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:01 pm

business is business i guess.

And most of the info had been floating around long before QF halted its shares
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
jsmith
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:06 pm

QFP

I can't believe you make reference to 'fair competition' and 'Qantas' in the same paragraph. What a joke. Since when have Qantas been interested in fair competition?
 
Marara
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:07 pm

I would hardly call SIA a protected monopoly, SIA competes with product (mainly) SIN is one of the most open Airports in the world with many carriers competing against it on nearly all routes especially with neighbours such as MH, QF, TG, CX im sure the competition is intense. QF/BA even have their 'sub-hub' in SIN.
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
QANTASpower
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:29 pm

And what about QF Marara. How many carriers compete with it on the European routes? Every single one of the Asian carriers because we in Australia are at the end of the line. Maybe you should sit back and have a think about how many carriers SIA for example compete with out of their home country with on say London flights with how many QF compete with. SIA compete with BA & QF for direct flights. QF on the the other hand has to compete with every single Asian & Middle Eastern carrier.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:44 pm

I wasn't aware that Singapore Airlines Group had any shareholding in QF and then sold some shares which would have made the QF share price decrease.

Long live Anzett.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
BBD
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:48 pm

I suspect that the scenario advanced by QANTASpower is probably closer to the real intentions of SQ than actually wanting to enter the market directly. Certainly their conduct to date, and, in particular, their comments on these rumours, has served to further fuel them and keep them going.
If this is, indeed, the case, then I think it comes under the "all is fair in love and war" category.
One can argue than QF used similar tactics towards SQ/NZ during the battle with AN, and are still using similar tactics against NZ in their campaign to convince of the benefits of QF taking a stakeholding in NZ.
Indeed, from my perception of Geoff Dixon, he could actually be enjoying the battle.
 
tullamarine
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:06 pm

Qantas are big boys and I'm sure they can cope. If investors think $4.20 is a good buy then they'll go for it. If not, QF will have to wait but given the institutional enthusiasm the other week, any shortfall could easily be made up via another institutional placement.

Who knows if SQ meant to inflict damage on QF? If they meant to, they should have acted a couple of weeks ago and lowered the book build price.

The Australian sharemarket has slipped over the past week and the continuing problems in the US economy means that QF's international ops will take even longer to come back. All these things are weighing on the share price. I somehow doubt the re-run of a story thats been around for 10 months is the only cause of the QF slump.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:16 pm

"Or is this some sort of pay back for QF's so called interference in attempts to increase the shareholding in ANZ."

Wouldn't you agree that QF's actions could also be sabotaging SIA's attempts of increasing it's stake in ANZ?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Skystar
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RE: Singapore_Air

Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:30 pm

What do you mean when you write,

"Long live Anzett"

Are you purposely misspelling Ansett or are you referring to the airliners.net character, and if so, why?

Cheers,

Justin
 
tsentsan
Posts: 1921
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:32 pm

I juz re-read what QantasPower has said... Just wondering how a 2-3 month old rumour could sabotage Qantas? Perhaps we should say that Qantas is wanting to Sabotage Star Alliance by buying into Air NZ, and forcing ANZ out of Star?

Qantaspower:
Monopoly eh? Who has the Monopoly in Australia? Please, I dont mean any offence, but you do seem to be the Qantas version of Singapore_Air.
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QANTASpower
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:56 pm

Tsentsan

The rumour is old but for some reason SIA has been inflaming it over the past fews days. This is the major reason that the share price is now lower than the offer price. Why? Wouldn't it be in the interests of SIA to keep it very quite so QF & DJ would not be able to work on and respond to this threat.

Further QF is not a monopoly in AUS. DJ operates on the majority of the major routes. Similar domestic structures are evident in many countries such as Canada, France and Germany.

I don't want to come across as QF's No.1 fan however I am concerned as an Australian about QF being undermined by SIA via Govt regulation which allows them to enter this market. I don't think it is in the national interest to allow this to happen. SIA could very easily de-stabilise the industry here which is in no ones interest.

I have nothing against SIA however I do have concerns about Aust companies which are disadvantaged via Govt regulation which is at odds with other countries rules & regulations.

Regards


 
SQ772
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:32 pm

Then your topic should read as "Australian govt regulation sabotages QF capital raising". No?

There's always a better way to fly...
 
aviasian
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:42 pm

It is hardly accurate to say that another airline's entry into the Australian market is in no one's interest . . . I am certain consumers will value having yet another choice, even if it is not no-frill and low-fare.

KC Sim
Bangkok
 
Guest

RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:43 pm

QFPower says:

"""Further QF is not a monopoly in AUS. DJ operates on the majority of the major routes. Similar domestic structures are evident in many countries such as Canada, France and Germany."""

Mate, what are you smoking? I think 85% of the domestic market which QF never had before is most definitely a monopoly.

QFpower says:

"""I don't want to come across as QF's No.1 fan however I am concerned as an Australian about QF being undermined by SIA via Govt regulation which allows them to enter this market. I don't think it is in the national interest to allow this to happen. SIA could very easily de-stabilise the industry here which is in no ones interest."""

Welcome to the cut throat world and new era of Australian aviation. Every other sector industries has had to suffer it. The fact of the matter is that QF need some sort of competition to keep the standards reasonable. The two airline policy was cosy but it was always AN that were the innovaters and exceptionally so. No QF can pull whatever stunts they like.

National interest is out the window these days mate. In the ever changeing world we all have to be leaner and meaner. Unfortunately corporate and shareholder greed will rule the day.

You are QF's no#1 fan and I remember that from meeting you but the reality is that Geoffy D was more than happy to have to foreign investment cap reveiwed which would have allowed QF to be virtually foreign owned.

Do you not read the media?

Cheers buddy!

mb

Kick a clown, burn a clown, don't let them ruin your day.



 
rmm
Posts: 518
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:48 pm

QANTASpower wrote,

Further QF is not a monopoly in AUS. DJ operates on the majority of the major routes.

On paper maybe, but if allowed, QF could crush DJ tomorrow.

In relation to foreign sell off's, unfortunately our governments only ever seem to see the short term gain, not the long term impact.

I have nothing against SIA however I do have concerns about Aust companies which are disadvantaged via Govt regulation which is at odds with other countries rules & regulations.

Disadvantage's - do you mean QF not being able to secure more foreign capital or SIA be able to launch local services?

Rmm


 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 8:11 pm

On Singapore-London,

Qantas/ BA has 4 daily flights
SIA has 3 daily flights.

On Singapore-Bangkok
SIA has 6 daily flights
Thai has 7 daily flights
+ 5 daily flights from other airlines

On Singapore-Sydney
SIA has 2 daily 747 and 1 daily 777 flight
QF/BA has 3 daily 747 flights

SIA protected? I don't think so.

Also, if Qantas can operate domestic New Zealand flights, why can't SIA operate domestic Australian flights? By all means the NZ market is much smaller than the Aust one. Is QF trying to "destablise" NZ's market?

And ask the general public, I'm sure they don't want monopoly and high fares + reduced service!

QantasPower, you must have a lot of shares in Qantas?

cheers!
Jimmy
 
Milesdependent
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 9:58 pm

I am sure the QF deal is under-written by several investment bank. So, in that regard, wouldn't the comments by SIA be an attack on Credit Suisse, Morgan Stanley or whoever!!

MD
 
Beno
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Fri Sep 06, 2002 11:03 pm

I would like to share my views on government ownership of airlines some of you may agree and some may strongly disagree and I respect your opinion as you should respect mine. All airlines around the world should not have any intervention or help from governments, a lot of U.S airlines should be left to die or be taken over by stronger competitors. In the Asia/Pacific region Air New Zealand should have been left to sort out its own problems instead of taking a government had out because is not the N.Z tax payers fault that ANZ was in such a hurry to by an airline they could not afford or run.

And in response to a lot of comments about Qantas having a monopoly and having 85% of the Australian market. Since Ansett has gone never has QF abused its market power or risen fares to unfair levels. I can still fly SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE for $134 return so as far as I am concerned Qantas can continue to dominate if they keep offering these fares.

I also agree with QANTASpower about SQ spreading rumors about entering the domestic market, I think they are worried about QFs commitment to spend 13 billion to become the most powerful airline in Asia/Pacific.

Regards

Ben.
 
tsentsan
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 10:48 pm

RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:07 am

Sigh... why do you guys always say that SQ is spreading rumours about QF???

Why dont you all say QF is spreading rumours when they announced they want to buy into SIA????
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SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:19 am

"Why dont you all say QF is spreading rumours when they announced they want to buy into SIA" Because a lot of people who like SIA are afraid of causing a possible argument.

"Please, I dont mean any offence, but you do seem to be the Qantas version of Singapore_Air." Well I take offense to that Tsentsan.

SkyStar: I am not referring to anything in particular however I feel it is necessary to say that. I hope that didn't offend you.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:09 am

I did some research:

"Singapore Airlines may revive collapsed Australian airline Ansett as part of a push into the Australian aviation market, local media reported on Tuesday.

The Nine Network said a proposal to resurrect Ansett would be put to the Singapore Airlines board on September 11." - Reuters

"Reports of a proposed new Ansett fleet of 24 Airbuses surfaced after Sydney Airports Corporation confirmed it had been in discussions with Singapore, and followed months of speculation that the airline intended to launch a domestic carrier in Australia." - NZ Herald.

""For the whole of this calendar year I have considered SIA's arrival here to be somewhere between very likely and inevitable," said Harbison, who is managing director of the Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation." - AFP / Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation.

""We believe their assessment was very serious and very measured," Gibbs told Sydney's Daily Telegraph." - AFP / Sydney Airport Corp. Ltd.

""We came away from these discussions with the belief that they were very serious about their analysis of starting a new airline in Australia."" - Asia Pulse / Peter Gibbs - Sydney Airport Corp. Ltd.


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
tsentsan
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:53 am

Singapore_Air,

Apologies if you took offence. As said, no offence was meant. Just putting a point that you're pro-SIA, and QantasPower is pro-Qantas. Just 2 opposite sides of the coin thats all.
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aerokiwi
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:07 pm

What a ridiculous little outburst from QANTASpower.

You're concerned that a foreign airline is having an influence on the Australian domestic market via a foreign government? Excuse me? Have you even heard of New Zealand?

QF engaged in a deliberate startegy in 2001 to undermine SQ increasing its shareholding in the AirNZ/Ansett group. And it is well known that the Australian govt. was happy to act on Qantas's behalf in pressuring the NZ govt to delay the decision.

AND, Qantas gains a footohold in the NZ domestic market (not that i'm complaining about that). So quite frankly QANTASpower - BOO HOO! Before you start criticizing the Singaporeans, take a good hard look at your own govt. especially that 'Minister for Qantas', whatshisname, Anderson.

Hypocrisy is both stupid and dull.
 
Guest

RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 12:12 pm

Few words to say. "I Don't Get It."

All I know is that if SIA really wants to bring Ansett back, they should've brought Ansett back a long time ago, not just leaving ANZ to deal with it. Although this is another story that don't really relates to SIA sabotage Qantas stuff...
 
'Longreach'
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 2:24 pm

Ok lets say that SQ start up. Who do you think will win the battle? I can imagine the advertising now.

Do you think a foreign owned Australian icon would pull the numbers? And do you think Qantas would use the above point in aggresive advertising?

I don't really think any Qantas fans should be getting too panicked too early.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 4:14 pm

"Do you think a foreign owned Australian icon would pull the numbers"

Why would it not? Because it's not Australian?  Insane
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
luftaom
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 6:26 pm

Get off your high horse...

QF gets as good as they give ... you obviously dont recall the QF counter bids for Hazelton as soon as AN launched a takeover bid. AN wound up paying twice as much as their original offer to ZL shareholders (which was in itself 33% higher than the price prior to the announcement) all thanks to the QF spoil.

I really cant see how QF can now start to whinge that the SQ stories might be a SQ spoil campaign.

 
dynkrisolo
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 8:56 pm

Bigo747/Jim:

SIA wanted to buy 50% of Ansett from News Corp. ANZ didn't allow them to do so. Later, SIA wanted to increase its ANZ shares partly to rescue Ansett. The New Zealand government was extremely slow in acting on a decision. As Aerokiwi pointed out, Qantas and the Australian government were also involved in slowing down New Zealand government's ruling on that matter. By the time, the New Zealand government lifted the 25% foreign ownership cap, it was too little too late. Ansett was already on its death bed. This has been explained to you previously. I don't know why you still have this false impession.

Anyhow, if SIA indeed starts up a new domestic airline in Australia, they will be taking advantage of Ansett's AOC. That's why they want to bring Ansett back. It is just a mater of convenience. They would have to go through more paperwork if they choose not to use the Ansett name, or what really matters: Ansett's AOC.
 
go canada!
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 11:17 pm

Business is business, qantas arent crying over this, share prices go up as well as down for a number of reasons, however it isnt the be all and end all. Qantas are stupid enough to think that their share price could never go down. Furthermore they will of course be aware of any singapore backed austrialian carrier, airlines do know what each other are doing.

Rumours regarding singapore ansett have been going on for years, futhermore qantas' share scheme wasnt that un-expected.

regarding anzett, i think singapore air is suggesting qantas power has traits of anzett because of the fact that hes unaware of certain things, such as the fact that British airways still control qantas.I dont think he is anzett, hes just new so he should be given a few allowances.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
B727-200
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sat Sep 07, 2002 11:39 pm


All I can say is that I hope you didn't own the bat and ball when you went down the local oval for a hit with your school mates QANTASplower.....
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:37 am

Singapore_Air,

Compared to many Asians, Australians are a patriotic bunch when it comes to buying things/ services, and you'd see a lot of ad's with the phrase "100% Australian made and owned". So I think unless they (SIA/ new Ansett) come up with a clever way of "nationalising" themselves, I don't think their market power and appeal would be as significant as the former Ansett.

Using green and gold for the airlines' colour perhaps?

Jimmy

 
Guest

RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sun Sep 08, 2002 2:18 am

I don't know why you still have this false impession.

Because I see things from the other side, so I have different view than yours.

If SIA is really Smart enough, I think there are still some possible "grey areas" which SIA could actually invest Ansett directly. Just personal opinion on this one.
 
QANTASpower
Topic Author
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2002 3:07 pm

RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sun Sep 08, 2002 12:03 pm

Go Canada,

The idea that BA control Qantas today is ridiculous. In fact BA have never controlled Qantas.

The fact that BA continue to reduce their shareholding in QF points to the diminishing influence of the BA Board members (currently 2 out of 12).

You cannot control a company with a shareholding of 19% and why would QF allow this anyway. BA is hardly a good role model given it's poor financial performance of late.

Regards

 
luftaom
Posts: 551
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

RE: SIA Sabotages Qantas Capital Raising

Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:59 pm

BA hold exactly the same number of shares as they did when they bought 25% from the Australian government. The fact that more shares have been issued since then, diluting the proportion (not the actual number) of BA ownership is not akin to BA reducing their ownership.

Maybe it is time for you to get your facts together.

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