Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

US Airlines in Europe

Thu Dec 17, 1998 12:59 pm

Do any of the US airlines have major sized hubs in Europe out
of which they operate local European routes. I know that Pan Am
used to do so during its happier years. Have any of the rules
changed since then?
I've flown on 9V-SPK.

RE: US Airlines in Europe

Thu Dec 17, 1998 1:09 pm

I think United have 1 at LHR as I saw a United UK 737 there.
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:17 am

RE: US Airlines in Europe

Thu Dec 17, 1998 3:08 pm

A couple of years ago, United had an intra-europe hub at LHR, and to a much smaller extent CDG. From london they flew 727s to munich, berlin, hamburg, amsterdam, brussels. From paris they flew to geneva and athens (i dont know what kind of equipment was used on those routes). In addition, they used to fly between milan and rome. However, all the flights aforementioned are gone now, sadly. I wonder what UA has done iwth all those expensive slots?!? BTW, DL is the only one ot have an intra-europe "hub" now -- it is at FRA.

RE: US Airlines in Europe

Thu Dec 17, 1998 8:26 pm

While they "code share" with eauopean domestic airlines they do not actually have hubs there. The same way european airlines code share here with US airlines. Code sharing is just a way for two carriers from different parts of the world to work together. For instance, when you buy a DL ticket from JFK to BUD,
your ticket says Delta but when you get to the DL terminal you see its a Malev Hungarian aircraft. The airlines code share for two reasons. First, why should DL and Malev use two aircraft on the same route when they can share passengers and use one full plane instead of two half filled aircraft. Second, you can still get your DL or Malev frequent flyer miles. :)

RE: So what's the deal....

Thu Dec 17, 1998 9:55 pm

How come US companies can fly inter European, whilst European cariers cannot do the same in the US. If, say Virgin, wanted to fly from Chicago to Memphis (for whatever reason) I can assure you they would not be allowed to do that.

Also, Virgin wants to start an airline in the US (for the above reason) but there is a regulation prohibiting airlines to be owned by foreign investors for more than 49%. Richard Branson (Virgins boss) has said it can only be a deal if he gets at least 51% of the ownership (for obvious reasons). So, we shall see how this ends....

The point though is, the playground isn't really as level as some sources suggest.
Posts: 5714
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: So what's the deal....

Fri Dec 18, 1998 1:07 am

United used to fly 727s from their Heathrow hub, but found that passengers did not like transfering from widebody aircraft to narrow bodied aircraft. The 727s were subsequently brought back to the states.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

RE: So what's the deal....

Fri Dec 18, 1998 1:37 am

Delta no longer operates the hub at Frankfort. Since the aircraft usage was very low (one round trip per day to meet flights to ATL, CVG, and JFK) they can make better use of the aircraft in the US. These flights were replaced by code shares either from Frankfurt, Brussels or Zurich. The only flight that goes beyond Frankfurt is the flight to Bombay but this originates at JFK.
PanAm originally had rights to fly intra Europe as part of the settlement at the end of WWII. I believe that these rights terminated sometime in the early 70's. No US airline has rights to carry local passengers in Europe. What United was doing was connecting passengers from their transatlantic flights to narrow body aircraft so that they could serve additional destinations. I think their problem was the same as Delta's, low aircraft utilization rates.

Posts: 423
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:55 am

RE: So what's the deal....

Fri Dec 18, 1998 3:10 am

I know 2 other reasons UA stopped using LHR as their European hub:
1. The LHR slots are very expensive. It's a lot more economical to use the slots for the 767s and 777s from the US with 200+ passengers each, than for half-empty 727 from other European cities.
2. the European governments require the crew for the intra-European flights to reside in the countries they work. That means either UA had to recruit local pilots for those 727s; or send US pilots as expats. Both are quite expensive.
There was a good article on Jan. 97's Airways magazine on UA's European operations.

Virgin US

Fri Dec 18, 1998 3:43 am

The thing I expect RB to do is get 2 others to join with him and he owns 49% and the own 25 and 26%. And then start flying from JFK to LAX and SFO were VA flies from. I expect Virgin will be bigger the BA one day.
Posts: 5714
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Virgin US

Fri Dec 18, 1998 7:44 am

While anything is possible, I highly doubt that Virgin will be as big as British Airways someday.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:00 am

United in Europe

Fri Dec 18, 1998 7:51 am

United still flies to Brussels from London Heathrow, during the summer season only. As discussed in other posts, they used to fly 727's for that route, that was 1991 when United had just bought Pan Am assets in Heathrow. Two years ago it was a 777 (yes a 777!) and now it is a 767.
Ben Soriano

RE: Virgin US

Fri Dec 18, 1998 8:20 am

You think how much Virgin has grown in the past 15 years. Think know they have a European airlines and a very good service to the US and Japan. I think in another 25 to 50 years everyone will see the impact of Virgin growth.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos