Aviastar
Topic Author
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A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:11 pm

Has the Polish president's plane (101) RR engines, as wrote the photographer?

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Photo © Radoslaw Idaszak


Outwardly the left engine looks like a good old Soloviev D-30, unless a Tay 620 is hidden inside?  Confused
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:44 am

Poland had it's Tu-154Ms reengined and the aircraft's electronics updated.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:54 am

Thats a new one to me !!.

Would it not have been cheaper to get a second hand Boeing ?
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:56 am

Accoring to JP, it has 2 SO D-30KU-154-II engines.
 
BWIrwy4
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:53 pm

Cx flyboy: Then what's the third engine?
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 12:55 pm

It was a typo, should be three !!
 
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yyz717
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:21 pm

The TU-154 has never been considered for RR re-engining. Only the TU-204.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:38 pm

Boeing makes avionics? Since when?

There's your answer  Smile
 
ben
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:36 pm

As I posted in the tech forum to a similar question:

---------------------------------------------------

Too much of that Polish vodka I think.

Seriously, I dont know for sure but Id say that not in a billion years are they RR. Imagine the cost and certification hassles... and Poland only has 2 of these aircraft: 101 and 102 (the others in the VIP fleet are Yak-40s and a few helicopters).

If they were going to take the effort to adapt the aircraft for RR engines and other avionics, why not just buy a Boeing? Remember that its not only a case of bolting a similar engine onto an airframe. There are hundreds of things to take into account. The airframe was designed for D-30s and any others will cause untold problems.

No way, in my opinion!

B4e, where do you get your information?
 
backfire
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:46 pm

This Tu-154 was originally ordered by the Polish Air Force in 1988 and rolled out on 29 June 1990. It was originally registered number 837 but was re-registered in 1995 to its present status number 101.

It was orginally equipped with D-30-KU154II engines and these powerplants are still fitted on the aircraft.

The jet is furnished as a VIP transport for the service of President Kwasniewski and carries the "Rzeczpospolita Polska" (Republic of Poland) designation insignia along with the red/white checkerboard marking of the Polish Air Force.
 
NewSwissair
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:00 pm

All Tu-154M have D-30 engines. It is not possible to install Rolls Royce engines.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Tue Sep 17, 2002 12:28 pm

Correction: The avionics are Western, this is known. As for the engines, it's possible that RR did work on them. Who knows other than the Polish Air Force?

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Tue Sep 17, 2002 3:59 pm

The "western" avionics aren't known. If they are known, then why does the photographer state "Boeing avionics". Since when has Boeing made an avionics suite for the Tu-154? Or any other aircraft for that fact.

This Tu-154 may have a few bits and pieces from non-Russian/CIS sources on board, but I doubt they have a full avionics suite.

Also, why would RR work on the engines? This would basically put RR face-to-face with a legal quagmire if anything happened to those engines.
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:38 pm

B4e is talking cr@p as usual ... if you don't know the real answer to a question, B4e, don't make it up!  Yeah sure  Insane

The aircraft might well have gone through the interior upgrade at Shannon, but that does not mean that (a) they have Western avionics; or (b) Rolls went anywhere near the engines. In fact, Rolls only touch engines they have built themselves or that they have licence deals on such as the RAF Allison engines.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 11:23 am

Wow, you guys, both Avitsiya and SAS as usual spout unconstructive flamebait. Listen up SAS, you want to join a discussion, fine, but don't spout crap.

The avionics suite on that aircraft were redone, the engines, I have no idea. But then again, you guys don't know do you? Do you work for the Polish airforce? No. The Poles may bloody well have put in new avionics.

As for "Boeing Avionics"...I didn't photograph that aircraft, so don't attack me for the caption, genius!

Both of you go email the Polish airforce if you want an explanation. But if you treat them with the same amount of disprespect you treated me, they may tell you to go stick it up somewhere.

B4e is talking cr@p as usual ... if you don't know the real answer to a question, B4e, don't make it up!

Kudos to your hypocrasy. If you take your own advice, I expect you to stop constantly starting I v. P threads.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 11:43 am

Forgot to add...I didn't say "Boeing Avionics". Also note in my recent post, the word "correction" and the word "possible". If it isn't possible that RR worked on the engines, then state so without flamebait. It's amazing neither of you two have been banned.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 2:12 pm

OK Boeing4Ever.

Nothing I have said on this thread is constructive. It is all flamebait huh? You wonder why I haven't been banned yet?

OK Мудозвон...let me fix that problem for you shall I?

You know buddy, it is Мудак like you who are basically ruining the forums. I ain't sticking around any longer.

You seem to know it all. Well, you tell everyone want they want to know in future.

I have had enough of the shit which has slowly denegrated the forums in the last 12 months, and I ain't sticking around any longer. Maybe when things change in the future, I might be back, but unless Johan does something major about the problems in the forums, I doubt that will ever happen.

Those of you who want to keep in touch, you should know how to find me.

Пока


Скотти
Aeroplane.ru
Aviatsiya
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:21 pm

Hmm, so B4e, we are supposed to believe that you, as a Chicago based 16-20 year old, happen to have a hot-line into the highest echelons of the Polish Air Force so that you know exactly what has been installed on the Polish VIP fleet, right? Yeah, sure.  Yeah sure

You have demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge of technical matters by saying that Rolls worked on the Solionev engines. Clearly, you think that aircraft engines are like car ones - that any Tom, Dick or Harry with a set of spanners can work on them. Well, I've got news for you, kid - they can't. Each engine has its own specific tooling, without which you cannot open it up. Each engine can also only be signed off for return to service by people who hold specific licences for that engine, meaning that they have undergone comprehensive training on it.

I mentioned this yesterday to one of the senior people at Rolls Derby we are working with at the moment, and after he picked himself off the floor due to laughter at the stupidity of the suggestion, he categorically denied that Rolls has (or has any plans to in the future) done any work whatsoever on any existing Russian engines.

B4e - you are the weakest link, goodbye!  Yeah sure  Insane
 
ra-85154
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:34 pm

When Russian planes are being re-engined, they will use RUSSIAN engines first; Volga Dnepr for instance is investigation the possibility of re-engining their IL-76's, with Solovyev PS-90 engines! (TU-204 /IL-96) and no RR's of whatever. The only Russian plane with RR engines is the TU-204, but a Tu-154 with RR-engines, haha come on...

Please think first before replying B4e..replies like yours spoil this forum and take down its level, and I believe it is not the first time this is said to you...

greez
Martijn
 
ben
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:49 pm

To add to what Martijn said...

The Tu-204 series can be fitted with RR engines because the airframes were specifically designed/modified by the manufacturer for this type of engine to be fitted.

As I said before, there is more to fitting a new engine than just bolting it onto a fuselage. For instance the parameters in the FBW software must be modified for the characteristics/performance of that particular engine... and there is much more... Like SAS23 says, the tooling kits etc. Come on, That Tu-154 doesnt need foreign avionics or engines to make it any more sexy!!

Soloviev/Kuznetzov engines are perfect for that application (Tu-154) so there is no need to change them - no matter how inferior anyone may think Russian/Sovet technology is (of course it isnt inferior but Im just saying it to make a point).
 
Krvavec
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Wed Sep 18, 2002 9:49 pm

I must say this out of my dbase, in the matter of speaking about reengined Russian planes:
You are right when saying that the only RR Russian plane so far is TU 204 - with RB211-535. The same is going on new TU 224 (not flown yet) with RB211-535E4.

There's also An 124 Ruslan: ZMKB Progress (Lotarev) D18T or Aviadvigatel nk93. This plane also has (had) options for RR RB211524G or GE CF680.
About TU154M - definitely russian engines.

I hope i put some new aspects and infos onto this site.

P
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:51 pm

Hmm, so B4e, we are supposed to believe that you, as a Chicago based 16-20 year old, happen to have a hot-line into the highest echelons of the Polish Air Force so that you know exactly what has been installed on the Polish VIP fleet, right? Yeah, sure

Did I say I know exactly what is installed in the Polish VIP fleet? Did I say I am a member of the Polish Airforce. No. I clearly did not. You are putting words in my mouth again SAS.

You have demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge of technical matters by saying that Rolls worked on the Solionev engines. Clearly, you think that aircraft engines are like car ones - that any Tom, Dick or Harry with a set of spanners can work on them. Well, I've got news for you, kid - they can't. Each engine has its own specific tooling, without which you cannot open it up. Each engine can also only be signed off for return to service by people who hold specific licences for that engine, meaning that they have undergone comprehensive training on it.

Again, go ask the people who actually work on that plane. I said it was POSSIBLE, not definate that those engines were looked at, touched, etc, by RR. Wasn't the MiG-15 powered by a Russian knockoff of an RR engine? Go email a correction to the photographer, and stop making a crisis out of it.

I mentioned this yesterday to one of the senior people at Rolls Derby we are working with at the moment, and after he picked himself off the floor due to laughter at the stupidity of the suggestion, he categorically denied that Rolls has (or has any plans to in the future) done any work whatsoever on any existing Russian engines.

So suddenly you have connections with people at Rolls. I'll believe that Rolls has, or has ever had plans to work on Russian engines, but you with a link to a guy at the Rolls Derby!? Please.

B4e - you are the weakest link, goodbye!

How childish, copying your idol Goodbye.

Please think first before replying B4e..replies like yours spoil this forum and take down its level, and I believe it is not the first time this is said to you...

First time this has been said to me actually, but I find it irrelavant. My posts do not degrade the forums. Go look at the non-av forum for links to pointless threads and posts.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

PS-as for Aviatsiya, good riddance, but if I forced him out, clearly he is a drama queen. There are many others on this forum who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out.

And as for everyone else, at least they can have a discussion on engines without resorting to the mud-slinging that SAS23 and Aviatsiya resorted to.


 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:31 pm

I really don't want to get involved in this, but I feel the need to say this.

as for Aviatsiya, good riddance, but if I forced him out, clearly he is a drama queen. There are many others on this forum who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out.

Good riddance? Aviatsiya.ru (formerly BrissieLions) has been one of the best sources of information on Russian and former soviet bloc aviation on this forum, period. I remember him being here when I joined two years ago, and I always know that when some ignorant teenager tries to announce to the world that Russian aircraft are unsafe/old/uncomfortable/bad, Aviatsiya has been the guy to try and point out this incorrect view. One thing is for sure, he posted more information and interesting posts in a day than I have ever seen you post. So I really don't think you have the right to boast about "forcing him out". Perhaps I missed out on something somewhere, but I am unaware of anyone else here "who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out." Besides which, hating someone is not reason to harass them (or drive them out for that matter).

Now, kindly grow up, for everyone's sake. I am 19 years old, and I am sick to death of having the 16-20 age bracket made to appear like a complete bunch of fools because some people have the maturity level of a small child. Other people here, I am sure, are sick to death of petty and worthless postings. It doesn't make the place any better, it just drives all our more respected users away. Now I don't know about you, but I have to pay for all the internet I use, and it is charged by the MB. I see this forum as a very good resource of information, and I don't have a problem with having to pay a fair bit every monthly so I can use it. I do have a problem however when inconsiderate users result in the more informative members of this community electing to stay away. Perhaps if you continue to "force people out", I will start sending you my internet bill, or perhaps I will simply join the ranks of other people who have stopped coming here. That would be a sad day for me. And if it happens to enough people, I am sure Johan would not be terribly happy about it either.

And please don't take offence at this post of mine - after all, if you are going to take upon yourself the responsibility of forcing out other users, as you boast about, then you have to take the negative publicity that comes with that. If you can't handle the heat, I kindly suggest you don't light the fire.

Finally, I suggest you write a letter to Johan explaining to him why it is you feel the need to force out the more informative members of this forum. I certainly shall be writing one to him explaining to him why I feel that something needs to be done about upstart children trying to control what is an adult bulletin board, and giving all the other minors who use it properly a bad image.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:36 pm

B4e, you made a statement: The avionics are Western, this is known; and very ungrammaticaly followed it up in a subsequent post: The avionics suite on that aircraft were redone.

Clearly, as a teen from Chicago, it is highly unlikely that you have first-hand experience of the Polish VIP aircraft yet you are speaking on here as if you do. The only people who do are members of the Polish Air Force. Draw your own conclusions.  Big grin

Next, you try to back-track on your earlier assertions that the TU154 has either been re-engined with RR engines (Poland had it's Tu-154Ms reengined ) or alternatively that RR maintains their Soloviev engines (As for the engines, it's possible that RR did work on them) despite having been told by a number of people that know considerably more about aircraft maintenance than you do that it is impossible.

And yes, I am in very frequent contact with Rolls Derby (Derby is the city where the engines are built and Rolls has its head office, since you clearly didn't know that, either) - what engine do you think powers the L1011?  Yeah sure  Insane

You are typical of the teen know-it-all that is significantly lowering the quality of these forums and driving away the best of the users. Not only do you post cr@p, but when you are challenged about it, instead of apologising and actually learning something from people that have considerably more experience than you do, you attack those people and try to weasel around with what you said or did not say previously.

Finally, some more information for you, B4e - You are the weakest link, goodbye! is the catchphrase of Ann Robinson, the presenter of a programme called the Weakest Link. I strongly suggest you take it to heart and refrain from participating here for some time ... like the next five years.
 
9V-SVA
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:44 pm

I agree totally with SAS23, Aviatsiya.ru and VirginFlyer. Boeing4ever, your posts have caused the forums to become worse these days. You never admit you're wrong, aren't you?

Well, let me tell you something, YOU'RE WRONG! Face it. If you can't face the fact that you are wrong, I really think you need psychiatric help. The TU-154 can't be re-engined, by the way. Even if they were re-engined, they will choose Russian engines first! And, since when does Boeing build avionics systems? I thought Rockwell Collins and Honeywell did that.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
VH-OJO
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:44 pm

VirginFlyer you are right on ! Could not have it put it better myself. As a big soviet/russian aviation fan, Aviatsia.ru leaving this forum will be a great loss. I truly hope he reconsiders !  Smile

As for the topic itself. I think the polish VIP Tu-154M has gone the same modifications that the three Slovak Airlines plus one governmental/VIP Tupolevs have undergone. Just like Aviatsia.ru properly pointed out, bits and pieces of the original avianoics were replaced by western avionics (both Honeywell and Collins). I have an article at home which is more technically specific as to which parts of the avionics were actually replaced. I can dig it out and translate should anyone be interested.


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As for the engines, AFAIK they cannot be modified.

VH-OJO
 
9V-SVA
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 6:33 pm

BTW Boeing4ever, is "mudslinging" your favourite word of late? I don't see any instances of mudslinging in any of Aviatsiya.ru's and SAS23's posts. You are the one making it up.

There are many others on this forum who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out.

The thing is, many more people hate you! If so many people hate Aviatsiya.ru, how can he have so many people on his respected user list?

Again, go ask the people who actually work on that plane. I said it was POSSIBLE, not definate that those engines were looked at, touched, etc, by RR. Wasn't the MiG-15 powered by a Russian knockoff of an RR engine? Go email a correction to the photographer, and stop making a crisis out of it.

The fact is, RR DOES NOT have the technical expertise to maintain Russian-made engines.

So suddenly you have connections with people at Rolls. I'll believe that Rolls has, or has ever had plans to work on Russian engines, but you with a link to a guy at the Rolls Derby!? Please.


Why can't SAS23 have links to people at Rolls-Royce? He knows a lot about the L1011, and there is no reason for him not to be near the Rolls-Royce staff!

Did I say I know exactly what is installed in the Polish VIP fleet? Did I say I am a member of the Polish Airforce. No. I clearly did not. You are putting words in my mouth again SAS.

Firstly, did SAS23 even say you are a member of the Polish Air Force? You are the one putting words in HIS MOUTH, not the other way around!

Boeing4ever, I am astounded at the level of intelligence you seem to have. You really need to grow up QUICKLY.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
Aviastar
Topic Author
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Thu Sep 19, 2002 6:36 pm

A lot of fuss for nothing


unless a Tay 620 is hidden inside?  Confused

There must be another way to discuss. Let's add a little humour, self-effacement, etc in our posts.

 
ben
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:39 am

Yeah... western 'avionics' if you mean a western-made GPS, TCAS and (maybe) some sort of trip computer... but nothing in the way of fundamental flight-critical avionics systems. The plane is certified, and used in anger thousands of times every day with the time-tested Russian avionics. There is absolutely no reason the Polish airforce would have changed this system.
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:16 pm

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 4:19 am

Already in 1977 Tupolev 154B-2 production began with a French automatic flight control and navigation system (Thomson-CSF/SFIM according to a my info here) This also makes/made Tu-154 Category II landings possible I believe. The rest of my information does not really mention many more western technology on the Tushka's ( only the TCAS or something like that)

 Big thumbs upfor more information :

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/tu154-01.htm


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Photo © Patrick Lutz



greez Big thumbs up
Martijn





 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:10 am

The only thing that I can see that looks Western in that pic is the GPS and TCAS!
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 11:30 am

Wow, a mouth full.

VirginFlyer, I did not "boast about forcing Aviatsiya out". I didn't. He blames me for why he left, and I find that strange. He has fought in non-av with other users, and yet, he seems to blame me for "forcing him to leave". We've rarely ever confronted each other.

SAS23:

B4e, you made a statement: The avionics are Western, this is known; and very ungrammaticaly followed it up in a subsequent post: The avionics suite on that aircraft were redone.

Clearly, as a teen from Chicago, it is highly unlikely that you have first-hand experience of the Polish VIP aircraft yet you are speaking on here as if you do. The only people who do are members of the Polish Air Force. Draw your own conclusions.


Very, well, the Avionics suite on that aircraft WAS redone. Strange how you point that out. Second of all, I do not speak like I have first hand experience with Polish VIP aircraft. Like I mention, as you just did, the only people who do are members of the Polish Air Force. As for the draw your own conclusions remark, I find that comical. What you really are trying to communicate is that we should draw YOUR conclusions.

Next, you try to back-track on your earlier assertions that the TU154 has either been re-engined with RR engines (Poland had it's Tu-154Ms reengined ) or alternatively that RR maintains their Soloviev engines (As for the engines, it's possible that RR did work on them) despite having been told by a number of people that know considerably more about aircraft maintenance than you do that it is impossible.

Back-track? I stated in one of my posts..."Correction" It's not backtracking, it's admitting a mistake. I was told that engine maintenance was impossible AFTER my second post, in a rude way might I add.

And yes, I am in very frequent contact with Rolls Derby (Derby is the city where the engines are built and Rolls has its head office, since you clearly didn't know that, either) - what engine do you think powers the L1011?

Good for you. Why did you bring up the L1011? Yes, everyone knows they are powered by RR engines. But how is that relavent?

You are typical of the teen know-it-all that is significantly lowering the quality of these forums and driving away the best of the users. Not only do you post cr@p, but when you are challenged about it, instead of apologising and actually learning something from people that have considerably more experience than you do, you attack those people and try to weasel around with what you said or did not say previously.

You are typical of a man who jumps into a fight at whatever chance he gets. I do not lower the quality of the forums by mistaking facts. If I make a mistake, you point it out without saying that I lower the quality of the forums, without insulting me, and without consistantly attacking me. And where did I weasel around. Seems to me like I pointed out inaccuracies in your assessment of me.

Finally, some more information for you, B4e - You are the weakest link, goodbye! is the catchphrase of Ann Robinson, the presenter of a programme called the Weakest Link. I strongly suggest you take it to heart and refrain from participating here for some time ... like the next five years.

This is also unproductive. I'll continue to participate in the forums, and there's nothing you can do about it. As for the Weakest Link, NBC here in the US will drop that show soon. With the way you post in other forums, that is advice that you should take to heart!

9V:

I agree totally with SAS23, Aviatsiya.ru and VirginFlyer. Boeing4ever, your posts have caused the forums to become worse these days. You never admit you're wrong, aren't you?

Here we go, another so called "forum expert" saying that I degenerate the forums. Sorry pal, but I do not. Users like TNNH do. You never admit when you're chasing a wild goose do you?

Well, let me tell you something, YOU'RE WRONG! Face it. If you can't face the fact that you are wrong, I really think you need psychiatric help. The TU-154 can't be re-engined, by the way. Even if they were re-engined, they will choose Russian engines first! And, since when does Boeing build avionics systems? I thought Rockwell Collins and Honeywell did that.

You see, you haven't participated in this thread, and once again, you bring up things that I have already pointed out as wrong. I myself never said Boeing redid the avioncs on that aircraft. As for "YOU'RE WRONG"...did I say I was right? Saying I need psychiatric help is outrageous. You don't know me and suddenly, you will assess my mental well-being. I give you the same advice friend.

BTW Boeing4ever, is "mudslinging" your favourite word of late? I don't see any instances of mudslinging in any of Aviatsiya.ru's and SAS23's posts. You are the one making it up.

Is this relevant? They attacked me, called me stupid, said I post crap, and claimed I ruin the forums. Sorry, but they are mudslinging.

The thing is, many more people hate you! If so many people hate Aviatsiya.ru, how can he have so many people on his respected user list?

Once again, you assume everyone hates me, and you just met me! I have witnessed SAS and Aviatiya's fights with other users on the non-av forums. So I know who hates who. You seem to hate me simply for the sake of hating me. You came out of nowhere to attack me.

The fact is, RR DOES NOT have the technical expertise to maintain Russian-made engines.

This has been discussed. Sorry, but you're late in pointing that out.

Why can't SAS23 have links to people at Rolls-Royce? He knows a lot about the L1011, and there is no reason for him not to be near the Rolls-Royce staff!

By this logic, I could have links to the Polish airforce, or the Illinois Air National Gaurd. There is always room for doubt. Do you know SAS personally? No, you don't. So don't assume.

Firstly, did SAS23 even say you are a member of the Polish Air Force? You are the one putting words in HIS MOUTH, not the other way around!

Actually, SAS insisted that I was talking like I was a member of the Polish airforce. Therefore, he WAS putting words in my mouth, much like you are right now.

Boeing4ever, I am astounded at the level of intelligence you seem to have. You really need to grow up QUICKLY.

I am astounded that a 13-15 year old will tell me to grow up when he has NO grasp of the situation at hand. You need to grow up, cool down, read, and then forumulate decent arguments. I clearly have more intelligence than you. So I was mistaken about the engines on a Tu-154M. Does that mean I suddenly know nothing about everything? Poor assessment indeed.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

PS-SAS, get a pic of a POLISH AF Tu-154M, then we can view it and discuss avionics modifications.








 
AWspicious
Posts: 2780
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 2:15 pm

Re: Pic posted by RA-85154 - Does the Flight Engineer of that BAC TU-154 have throttle controls at is seat, also? Cool!

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:16 pm

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 4:40 pm

AWspicious: they are used by the engineer when he thinks the plane is not going fast enough Big thumbs up

No serious; these 'throttles' are part of the starting up-system of the engines. I saw it in a plane video (Georgia Air TU-154B-2 Tblisi-Frankfurt-Tblisi, JP-videos I believe)

greez
Martijn
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 4:41 pm

The VC10 has exactly the same thing.
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:05 pm

B4e, this is one of the closest shots of the Polish TU-154M, unfortunately no inside pics;

http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.cgi?1031341733:LJU

Strange thing about these Polish Tupolevs is that do not seem to have any HF antennas and fairings like some of the Russian Presidential Tu-154's have


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Yevgeny Pashnin

check above the opened 2nd pax-door

Would the Rzeczpospolita Polska have an emailadress so we could ask them about this case  Confused

 
9V-SVA
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:33 pm

Boeing4ever,

Is this relevant? They attacked me, called me stupid, said I post crap, and claimed I ruin the forums. Sorry, but they are mudslinging.

Do you know what tolerance is? It's true that you post crap. They called you stupid as you keep failing to admit you are WRONG. Period.

This has been discussed. Sorry, but you're late in pointing that out.

You don't seem to understand what all of us were trying to say, huh? Well, better late than never.

By this logic, I could have links to the Polish airforce, or the Illinois Air National Gaurd. There is always room for doubt. Do you know SAS personally? No, you don't. So don't assume.

BTW, I know SAS23 is the founder of Caledonian Wings, which intends to operate ex-DL L1011s. So he has every right to be with RR technicians and no, I'm not assuming.

Actually, SAS insisted that I was talking like I was a member of the Polish airforce. Therefore, he WAS putting words in my mouth, much like you are right now.

He never said you were a Polish Air Force member, did he? You are CLEARLY the one putting words in his mouth.

I am astounded that a 13-15 year old will tell me to grow up when he has NO grasp of the situation at hand. You need to grow up, cool down, read, and then forumulate decent arguments. I clearly have more intelligence than you. So I was mistaken about the engines on a Tu-154M. Does that mean I suddenly know nothing about everything? Poor assessment indeed.

Like what you said to me, don't assume. So don't assume you have more intelligence than me! You were mistaken about the engines, but you REFUSED to admit your error and kept defending yourself. By the words 'level of intelligence', I never said you suddenly know nothing AT ALL. Stop putting words in my mouth. Also, as a 13-15 year old, I am obviously more mature than you, a 16-20 year old.

At least I know how to apologize when I'm wrong, and not keep defending myself and giving stupid retorts all the time.

9V-SVA





9V-SVA | B772ER
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:39 pm

Actually, 9V-SVA, the CalWings project was dropped after 9/11 though I am working on something else at the moment.  Big grin
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sat Sep 21, 2002 1:20 pm

RA-interesting indeed. Perhaps the Russian Tu-154s have additional equipment?

9V:

Do you know what tolerance is? It's true that you post crap. They called you stupid as you keep failing to admit you are WRONG. Period.

Amazing. You throwing the word tolerance in my face when you clearly have no understanding of its meaning. Next, it's not true that I post crap. Show me somewhere where it states as a fact, Boeing4ever posts crap. Go read all of my posts. Did I fail to admit I was wrong? Again, you fail to read over things. "Correction" I never stated I was absolutely right.

You don't seem to understand what all of us were trying to say, huh? Well, better late than never.

You don't seem to understand that I acknowledged that engine issue. I am not denying it, therefore I do understand. Which is more than I can say for you.

BTW, I know SAS23 is the founder of Caledonian Wings, which intends to operate ex-DL L1011s. So he has every right to be with RR technicians and no, I'm not assuming.

As he stated, Cal Wings was dropped.

He never said you were a Polish Air Force member, did he? You are CLEARLY the one putting words in his mouth.

Once again, you are off. He insisted that I talked like a member of the Polish Airforce. You are trying to put words in my mouth, and take them out of his. Ludicrous.

Like what you said to me, don't assume. So don't assume you have more intelligence than me! You were mistaken about the engines, but you REFUSED to admit your error and kept defending yourself. By the words 'level of intelligence', I never said you suddenly know nothing AT ALL. Stop putting words in my mouth. Also, as a 13-15 year old, I am obviously more mature than you, a 16-20 year old.

At least I know how to apologize when I'm wrong, and not keep defending myself and giving stupid retorts all the time.


Judging by your non-stop attacking me, and your flimsy assaults on my character, it is becoming safe to assume that I am of higher intelligence than you. I NEVER refused to admit my error. In fact, I did admit my error. You conveniently ignored that. As for the "I never said you suddenly know nothing AT ALL"...you keep calling me stupid and immature...so you do the math. As for maturity, you are nothing more than a punk. I do not lash out in such a manner as you have and clearly I have more maturity than you. You also jump into discussions with hardly any thought as to what you are doing. I don't have to apologize when I'm wrong. I'll admit it, but I won't apologize...after all, I didn't hurt anyone did I? And finally, my retorts boast far more intelligence than your attacks. And I do have a right to defend myself.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers



 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sat Sep 21, 2002 1:33 pm

Would the Rzeczpospolita Polska have an emailadress so we could ask them about this case

Here's a link to Poland's Ministry of Defence:

http://www.wp.mil.pl/index_eng.htm

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:19 pm

Boeing4ever: I have seen pictures of the Presidential Tu-154's and IL-62M's of countries like Azerbaijan , Ukraina and Georgia, but none of them had those external fairing and antennas, so only the Russian governmental fleet is 'extra' equiped with them it seems Smile..
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:27 pm

Children, children.  Insane  Insane

Right - so we have ascertained the following:

1) The aircraft was not re-engined with RR engines.
2) Rolls have not done any work on the engines.
3) The aircraft has not been fully refurbished with Western avionics - at best, it might have Western TCAS and GPS.
4) Boeing does not make avionics.

Anyone who suggested otherwise is a big dupa!  Big grin Big grin

 
9V-SVA
Posts: 1747
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sat Sep 21, 2002 8:40 pm

Boeing4ever,

As he stated, Cal Wings was dropped.

So what if CalWings was dropped? He could still have contacts. If his project is shelved, that DOES NOT mean that he has to avoid his friends at Rolls-Royce!

You don't seem to understand that I acknowledged that engine issue. I am not denying it, therefore I do understand. Which is more than I can say for you.

OK, so you acknowledged the engine issue, but did you admit you were wrong as far as I'm concerned? NO. You kept insisting somewhat you were correct, with no hint of apology or admittance of the fact.

Judging by your non-stop attacking me, and your flimsy assaults on my character, it is becoming safe to assume that I am of higher intelligence than you. I NEVER refused to admit my error. In fact, I did admit my error. You conveniently ignored that. As for the "I never said you suddenly know nothing AT ALL"...you keep calling me stupid and immature...so you do the math. As for maturity, you are nothing more than a punk. I do not lash out in such a manner as you have and clearly I have more maturity than you. You also jump into discussions with hardly any thought as to what you are doing. I don't have to apologize when I'm wrong. I'll admit it, but I won't apologize...after all, I didn't hurt anyone did I? And finally, my retorts boast far more intelligence than your attacks. And I do have a right to defend myself.

So what if I called you stupid, immature and what not? That does not equate to you not knowing anything. You don't apologize when you did something wrong, do you? That shows how your character is. If I wrong someone, I apologize immediately. You keep insisting that you do not lash out the way I do. The thing is, I've seen you do that in every anti-Israel, anti-Jew post! Oh yes, did you know when you ASSUME, you make an ass of yourself?

Amazing. You throwing the word tolerance in my face when you clearly have no understanding of its meaning. Next, it's not true that I post crap. Show me somewhere where it states as a fact, Boeing4ever posts crap. Go read all of my posts. Did I fail to admit I was wrong? Again, you fail to read over things. "Correction" I never stated I was absolutely right.

I do know what tolerance means. It's just that I've tolerated enough of users like you. You never stated you were absolutely right, yes, but in the same manner, you never ascertained that you were absolutely WRONG!

Once again, you are off. He insisted that I talked like a member of the Polish Airforce. You are trying to put words in my mouth, and take them out of his. Ludicrous.

He insisted that you were talking like a member of the PAF, but never once did he say that YOU WERE A MEMBER of the PAF. Period.

9V-SVA
9V-SVA | B772ER
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sun Sep 22, 2002 12:08 pm

9V,

So what if CalWings was dropped? He could still have contacts. If his project is shelved, that DOES NOT mean that he has to avoid his friends at Rolls-Royce!

He COULD still have contacts. Not very definite is it? It appears that CalWings should have produced a business relationship with the boys at Rolls, I doubt if he is friends with them.

OK, so you acknowledged the engine issue, but did you admit you were wrong as far as I'm concerned? NO. You kept insisting somewhat you were correct, with no hint of apology or admittance of the fact.

Yes, I acknowledged that I was wrong on the engine issue. It doesn't matter as far as you're concerned. You're not a mod, and you aren't one of the original participants in this discussion. I admitted to the fact, but I don't have to apologize to you for it. This highlights your young arrogance. How silly of you.

So what if I called you stupid, immature and what not?

It equates to flambait...go read the rules on the forum.

That does not equate to you not knowing anything.

Indeed, it doesn't...it equates to your immaturity.

You don't apologize when you did something wrong, do you?

First, aside from the grammatical error, I do admit when I do something wrong, and I do apologize. Let me ask you, who have I wronged that I need to apologize to by mistakenly saying that those engines are RRs? Ludicrous.

That shows how your character is.

Indeed it does...it also shows how you completely misread my character and have dragged this thread into a fight.

If I wrong someone, I apologize immediately.

Once again, who did I wrong by stating that a Polish Tup had RR engines? More importantly, how did I wrong this person? I clearly didn't, so why apologize?

You keep insisting that you do not lash out the way I do.

No I don't. Show me where I have. Once again, you are putting words in my mouth.

The thing is, I've seen you do that in every anti-Israel, anti-Jew post!

A vague statement. Let me tell you my political views on the Middle East...I am against BOTH Israel and Palestine. I am not an anti-Semite for opposing Israel's views. If you believe this, then you need to take a look at your friend SAS23's posts. Remember his "Jews are Christkillers" statement? I don't lash out, you clearly believe otherwise, but does anyone care? If you insist that I am an anti-Palestine bigot, again, you are wrong. I oppose their policies and the suicide bombings.

Oh yes, did you know when you ASSUME, you make an ass of yourself?

Did you know that that statement is flamebait? Did you also realize what your are doing with yourself when you constantly attack me?

I do know what tolerance means. It's just that I've tolerated enough of users like you. You never stated you were absolutely right, yes, but in the same manner, you never ascertained that you were absolutely WRONG!

You clearly don't know what tolerance means. The "users like you" statement demonstrates that fact. Finally, I am not absolutely wrong. The Polish Tu-154 cockpit was modified/refurbished (take your pick on those two) with Western equipment. SAS, find a pic of a Polish Tu-145M cockpit and we will determine the extent of the modifications.

He insisted that you were talking like a member of the PAF, but never once did he say that YOU WERE A MEMBER of the PAF. Period.

Did you clearly read the past posts? The debate isn't whether he stated I was a member. In fact, with that statement, you proved my point. He insisted that I talked like a member of the PAF, therefore putting words in my mouth. I did not talk like a member of the PAF.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:35 pm

9V-SVA & Boeing4ever - I have interjected once into this fraccas, and I am going to do it again - would you please not hijack this thread any further. You could go on bickering here until the cows came home. Good for you. But please do so privately (i.e. via e-mail - 9V-SVA is kind enough to supply his e-mail address in his profile - its only a couple of clicks away). Lets not get this thread deleted and have the real issue - whether or not that particular aircraft has RR engines or not - lost.

Ok?

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:16 pm

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sun Sep 22, 2002 5:43 pm

Look what I found:

http://www.polandembassy.org/News/Biuletyny_news/news_biuletyn_4_14.htm

Szmajdzinski: Tender for Planes for VIPs Soon

Cracow, April 14: The Polish authorities plan to buy six new planes for the president, PM, Sejm and Senate speakers. Defence Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski said that the exchange of planes is a must. So far used JAK-40 and two TU-154 planes should not fly more than 20 years and have already been exploited for 18 years. Planes exchange was brought up by experts' teams set up by PMs Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz in 1996 and Jerzy Buzek in 1999.

Seems to me they would not have a Tu-154M completely re-engined and refurbished with electronics if they are going to replace them within a short future....
 
Guest

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Sun Sep 22, 2002 6:53 pm

B4e - I have a large number of contacts (some of whom are personal friends) at Rolls. I am in almost daily contact with them regarding engines we have for overhaul there and an upgrade programme they are looking at on our behalf.

You were making statements that appeared to show that you had first hand knowledge of the work on the aircraft. Notwithstanding the fact that your assertions have all been shown to be incorrect, only someone in the Polish Air Force would be able to validly make such statements - and I was merely highlighting the inconsistency between that and the information in your profile.

You big dupa, you!  Big grin
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 23, 2002 9:18 am

Notwithstanding the fact that your assertions have all been shown to be incorrect, only someone in the Polish Air Force would be able to validly make such statements - and I was merely highlighting the inconsistency between that and the information in your profile.

Notwithstanding that my assertions on the cockpit modifications have not been shown completely false. We have yet to get a looksie into that cockpit. But hey, your amazing and unnecessary hostility towards me in this thread is of no big concern to me.

And lets not forget the little kretyn 9V, who jumped at the opportunity to make war with me.  Smile

VirginFlyer...the debate now is what has been done to the cockpit of that aircraft. Unless another photo surfaces showing an RR sticker on one of those engines, we can bury the whole engine matter...they're not RRs.

Do Widzenia!
B4e-Forever New Frontiers

 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 10:16 pm

RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:25 pm

Hi

Check this:

http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.cgi?1031341733:LJU

On this pic I posted earlier you can see the opened 'clam-shell' thrust reverser, typical for the Solovjov D-30KU-154-II. Any RR engine built into this aircraft would have the same then, but AFAIK only the RR engines on the Fokker 100/70 have those types of reverser, but I doubt it if these (RR Tay?)engines are powerful enough for a Tupolev 154M. But to me there is no proof for a RR-engined TU-154M anyway, the story just does not make sense to me and I really don't know where the photographer got his info from, so maybe we should just friendly ask HIM haha Big thumbs up.
 
ra-85154
Posts: 601
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RE: A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?

Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:38 pm

I just sent Radoslaw Idaszak an email, so let's see.... Smile