Alitalia777
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World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:23 am

Hello everyone,
This was a question that my dad and I have been recently discussing, and we can't find a sure answer to. Can anyone tell me what the top ten largest airlines lines in the world are in order from largest to smallest. Thanks a ton, and looking foward to your responses.

Alitalia777
 
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STT757
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:44 am

1.) AA
2.) UAL
3.) DL
4.) NWA
5.) BA
6.) CO
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Airbus A380
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:48 am

Largest in terms of revenue? Passengers? Fleet size? Assets?
 
backfire
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:49 am

You have to be more specific Alitalia777. What do you mean by "largest"?

Most aircraft?

Most income?

Most extensive network?
 
backfire
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:55 am

Airline Business ranks the top five airline companies by revenue as follows:

(1) American Airlines
(2) United Airlines
(3) FedEx
(4) Lufthansa
(5) Delta Air Lines
 
DLLongIsland
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:02 am

I believe in terms of passengers carried, Delta is #1.
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:44 am

I believe STT757's list is correct, if measured by the number of pax carried or fleet size. IMO an airline should be judged how big they are by the number of pax they carry annually and the fleet size. After all, airlines are all about aircraft and the passengers they carry. (making money aswell obviously)

In Arsene we trust!!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:54 am

Previously in a thread with a similar line of thinking, I posted the figures released by Flight International in the annual review of airline profits (have I missed the 2002 edition? Probably and hopefully not).

However, the figures are pre 11 September 2001 and would appear to be irrelevant for current viewing.

The airline which has made the most profit since is Singapore Airlines Group, and the airline with the highest market capitalisation is Singapore Airlines.

With regards to passenger numbers, I would think it's either Delta Air Lines or American Airlines - Delta carried more passengers than American in August 2002.
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roguetrader
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:08 am

Singapore_Air says:

, and the airline with the highest market capitalisation is Singapore Airlines.

Other sources suggest:

Singapore Airlines, valued at $US8.39billion ...
Southwest the world's highest market capitalisation at $US9.4billion,

---Australian Financial Review August 2, 2002 Friday

Airline sized is ranked in RPKs, no other measure is accurate in revealing the breadth and depth of an airline's size.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

 
AWspicious
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:40 am

In terms of fleet size, I recall hearing somewhere that UPS was the largest. Correct me if if I'm wrong.

aw
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backfire
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:54 am

RogueTrader is correct. RPKs are a good indicator of airline size, because they take into account the carrier's network as well as income.

Fleet size doesn't mean much -- airline status isn't measured by the number of aircraft they happen to use. After all, British European has more aircraft than Virgin Atlantic.

Neither does market capitalisation: how can airlines be reasonably compared based on the whims of the stock market? Capitalisation can soar or drop overnight and, at the end of the day, is only as accurate as share-traders' expectations. It's a bit like trying to value a painting.
 
backfire
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:56 am

AWspicious

Think UPS has "only" around 250 aircraft. That's roughly as many as Air Canada.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:23 am

Roguetrader: Damn the Singapore Dollar. It's being doing stuff lately.

While RPK is arguably the best form of measuring airline 'size' (I've never used it, I'll do some research now), I do not think what I said about fleet size and market capitalisation and profits should be dismissed indirectly as irrelevant.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:32 am

Note, when I do this, and an airline quotes a figure for RPK in a particular month as 6 500 000 000 - do I convert into US$ or just keep it like that?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
manni
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:43 am

Backfire,

Is this the correct top 5?

Rogue Trader,

What's up. Didn't you say in an earlier post today that none of the top 6 airlines had ordered the A380? Big grin

Goodnight,
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HUYfan
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:57 am

Backfire/
British European is no more, we are now flybe.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

regards

mike
 
Leo
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 4:58 am

This discussions shows that few people recognise that airlines carry both passengers and freight and that they need to measured according to how much they carry of BOTH.

So please when you measure airline size, you need to do so by:

# TOTAL revenue of PAX & FREIGHT

or

# TOTAL Ton Kilometers carried, that is PAX and FREIGHT together
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:03 am

Leo: I agree, however, some in my research, for example British Airways do not state the cargo numbers so it would be unfair to do as such.

I'll have some results when a certain TV programme finishes.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
backfire
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:42 am

Leo: Technically you're right. We were just trying to simplify matters.

Singapore Air: You can't "convert" RPKs to dollars. RPK isn't a currency...it's a multiplicative combination of factors, a little like kilowatt-hours.

Manni: It's the top five by revenue according to the latest Airline Business data, which is normally pretty thoroughly researched.

HUYfan: Yes, I know. I'm still getting used to it.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
SESGDL
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 6:19 am

AA is largest, DL is largest however if measuring passenger numbers carried.
 
roguetrader
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:09 am

Manni asks:

Rogue Trader,

What's up. Didn't you say in an earlier post today that none of the top 6 airlines had ordered the A380?


No, I said it in a post several days ago in response to a similar topic in response to you and Joni. Not only did I say that, I said that only 2 of the top 10 carriers ordered the A380 and that the 'major' European airlines are about half the size of US majors. I posted the same evidence that I'm posting here below - rank of world airlines, which for some reason I have to post here again for you to remember it.

Singapore_Air: RPKs need no currency conversion - maybe you should investigate what these are before you go too much further.


Rank Airline (000,000) in revenue passenger kilometers (RPKs)

1 United 187,666

2 American 170,883

3 Delta 163,663

4 Northwest 117,658

5 British Airways 106,270

6 Continental 98,374

7 Air France 94,415

8 Lufthansa 86,695

9 JAL 84,265

10 US Airways 73,930

----Air Transport World July 1, 2002



kind regards,
RogueTrader

 
SESGDL
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:19 am

That info is not current.
 
DLLongIsland
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:41 am

Plain and simple - lets measure base this on number of passengers carried (IE, the airline's popularity in the eyes of the fliers)... If judging that way, Delta is the largest airline. Lets not give them the short stick just cause they don't charge as much for a coach seat as AA or UA
 
roguetrader
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:04 am

SESGDL,

when you say:

That info is not current.

If you are referring to my post, I will have to invite you to find RPKs over the last year by any reputable source that shows differently. I will withold personal insults and complaints about your youthful ability to find and understand airline statistics until you have a chance to respond.

RPKs are the world standard in ranking passenger airlines - it takes into account both number of passengers flown and how far they fly, it is the only way to level out the playing field and fairly judge as between short haul high frequency carriers and longhaul low frequency carriers.

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
SESGDL
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:44 am

ATW's
Top 25 Airlines
January-May 2002

Airline RPKs

1. American 77,120,475
2. United 68,381,737
3. Delta 60,556,087
4. Northwest 45,793,646
5. British Airways 40,749,000
6. Air France 39,762,900
7. Continental 38,700,740
8. Lufthansa 34,053,000
9. JAL 32,487,515
10. Qantas 31,683,000

Courtesy of Air Transport World
(www.atwonline.com)


There you go, RogueTrader. Shows how ignorant you are to not have known that American has been the world's largest airline since April 2001.

Jeremy
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:46 am

Ok, let's be objective. DLLong Island and Singapore_Air are clearly trying (desperately) to make their respective companies rank as number one.

Neither are.

Airline size is commonly referred to in these manners:

1. Fleet size (both DL and SQ fall short)

2. RPK's (again, both DL and SQ fall short)

3. Number of employees (once again, DL and SQ are not at the top)

So while SQ is worth quite a bit (and it's overvalued, if you ask me), it's nowhere near being considered one of the world's largest carriers.

And DL is one of the world's largest carriers, but it's not even CLOSE to being number one.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
roguetrader
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 10:23 am

SESGDL,

Fortunately for you I never resort to name calling or posting erroneous facts. Do you really think someone of your status has any knowledge or ability in this matter greater than an airline executive of the very airline you seem so proud to proclaim as number one?

There you go, RogueTrader. Shows how ignorant you are to not have known that American has been the world's largest airline since April 2001.

The figures I post are for the calendar year - the universal time period in which not only airlines, but all corporations, use to judge size and operational performance. Your figures are for the 1st 5 months of 2002, and although you would be accurate if your statements were a prediction, it is not accurate to proclaim a number one until you've had a year's worth of figures. You can say that American was number one through May of 2002, but that's it - the standard recognition of being any rank, number one included, can only occur after a full 4 quarters of operating statistics are revealed. Just as it would be inaccurate to use 2001's October quarter as a ranking for the airlines, it is likewise too presumptive to use the first year through May in an authoritive ranking of airlines.

An accurate statement in regards to number one is that United has been number one for a number of years and that American will be number one this year if things continue as they have thus far.

In any event, I appreciate your enthusiasm and look forward to others who do the research you have attempted.

kind regards,

rightwards
 
danialanwar
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:38 am

Hey, I have a suggestion ... why don't you say which airline is the biggest and then find a figure that proves it  Smokin cool
If you take history into consideration, then it becomes easier ... Aeroflot!
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DLLongIsland
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 1:56 pm

In no way am I trying to make Delta something it's not. I'm not saying they have the biggest fleet, or make the most money, or fly the most routes.

What I'm saying is quite clear. **In terms of PASSENGERS CARRIED, DELTA CLEARLY CARRIES MORE PAX THEN AA OR UNITED.** It's a fact.
 
United Airline
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:59 pm

SQ in terms of Fleet Size? I don't think SQ is even half as big as UA's Fleet.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:54 pm

Excuse me EA CO AS: There is no need for inflammatory and insulting remarks like that. You are rude.

For your information, this is taking longer than I anticipated and now I can't be bothered anymore. I have school now.

British Airways: 110 450 000 000
Qantas: 82 876 464 723 (Total Group Operations)
Singapore Airlines Limted: 77 720 500 000 (Airline only, exlcuding SilkAir)
CX: 49 064 225 042
Southwest Airlines: 48 720 821 000

The above is passenger only (in the case of Qantas, who knows? It's unclear what they mean by "Group"). And was gathered during a period from July 2001 to July 2002.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
backfire
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 5:39 pm

I think the world's largest air operation is actually the US Air Force. Big grin
 
manni
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:28 pm

Rogue Trader,

You said yesterday in the topic about China and the A380 that none of the world six largest airlines are interested in the A380. Now, IF the top 5 of Backfire is correct, than that what you wrote is incorrect.
Nothing to worry about, everyone can make mistakes. About me and Joni several days ago, I dont even have a clue what you're talking about.
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RE: World's Largest Airlines

Mon Sep 09, 2002 11:03 pm

Singapore_Air, you need to develop a thicker skin, my friend. I certainly wasn't attempting to be rude, but if you interpret telling the truth as being rude, then so be it.

You've listed quite a bit of numbers above, with no clear indication of what they represent. RPK's? Number of passengers carried? Total number of onboard drinks served? Number of preflight demos done by inflight personnel?

 Smile


P.S. Aeroflot WAS, at one point, the largest carrier in terms of fleet size (over 4000 aircraft), but this included many of the airlift and troop transport carriers of the former Soviet Union. Their current civil fleet is much smaller than most carriers.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group