lubcha132
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Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:11 am

I have seen a lot of sad news about my favorite plane recently. BA is retiring theirs, El Al seems to have returned one or two, and (i still have no idea what's up with this) NW is not happy with the 753. The worst news is that there will be no more Condor colored 757s but tom cook is still flying them i guess. What's going on?!

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yyz717
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:18 am

The 757 is suffering from an order shortage. Apparently the backlog is now only about 30 aircraft.

Perhaps this will push Boeing to develop the 752ER and a long range 753.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:20 am

Well the 757 IS early 1980's technology. So perhaps that may have something to do with it, even though 757 production didn't really start to take off until the late 80's/early 90's, making them fairly adolescent by airliner standards.

Like any other time there's a shift in a fleet, they just may not fit in with those airlines' current needs.

But it's not like those planes are going to disappear into oblivion. Some new start or charter carrier will pick them up.
 
kjet12
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:25 am

What is the source for NW not being happy with their 753s? I have heard people talk about it on the forum but I havent seen a source.

Kris
AA - Doing what we do best.
 
lubcha132
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:43 am

same with me Kris, i've only seen the pictures.
 
HAL
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:52 am

And the pictures everyone is making a big deal of are nothing. The one with the masking paper over the new NW 753 was just Boeing doing some work on the windows before delivery. There is NOTHING wrong with the 753, and I think there are just some people making something out of nothing. NW is not returning the new planes, and are very happy with them. This comes from a senior NW 757 pilot I talked to in SEA the other day.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
lubcha132
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:08 am

HAL you made my day Big grin the 753 is one of my favorite planes and i'm glad that they are found to be good aircraft.
 
Matt767
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:25 am

BA is NOT retiring their 757's they are only retiring their 1st 757's to sell to DHL for freighter conversion.According to BA's website they have 36 757's with 2 on operating leases and 1 on a "other lease". Average age is 11.1years. I think they are retiring the 757's with the older engines and selling them to DHL for freighter conversion. the engines are RB211-535C's and keeping the more efficint RB211-535E4 engines.

El al could be returning those 1-2 757's to the lessor because of the current conditions.

NW is happy with their 757-300's!


Matt
 
JAL
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:33 am

The 757 is indeed suffering from a shortage of orders, wonder what Boeing will do.
NW is happy with their 757-300!!!!!!!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
AA737-823
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 5:42 am

Dude- you all must have missed the Northwest 757-351 topic.
They may or may not be happy with them- that's not the point. The point is that the new Pratt and Whitney engine- never before fitted on a 753- is not able to maintain cabin pressurization at proper levels at certain altitudes. If I remember correctly, when climbing between 23000 feet through 29000 feet, the cabin pressure drops.

They are fixing them- NW is not returning them, from what I gather. They ARE returning them in the sense that they are flying back to Boeing to be repaired/modified. They are NOT returning in the sense of "thirty day money back guarantee, if you have a receipt."

Randall
 
aamd11
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 6:28 am

Actually, BA is retiring all but 9 of their 757s.
All in the G-BIK* range are to be rid of,
all in the G-BMR* range as well [both of these sets have the C engines, the less powerful, more fuel thirsty and older engines]
and then they are keeping either the G-BPE* fleet or G-CPE* fleet, probably a combination of both, some of the G-CPE fleet was only delievered in 1998 i believe.
G-CPEP is with Air2000 at this point, not sure if its a lease or it was sold to the airline.
They are all to be replaced with A320s and a couple of A321s, and the 9 757s left will be used on the Shuttle servie within the UK, and a few shorthaul Euro routes.

by the way, of the aircraft, they have/had 19 with the newer E engines, and the rest of the 53 were C type.
And currently there are only 18 757s left in the fleet [source:http://www.avnclub.demon.co.uk/fleetstats.htm]

A^A MD-11
 
jjbiv
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:13 am

ATA is loving them...

joe
 
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:35 pm

I ahte to be the bearer, or perhaps reminder, of more bad news, but US Airways is also retiring their 752's in favor of A321 aircraft. A good deal of their 757's came from Eastern so it is near time, but I'm going to miss the 757 in US Airways colors. There really is nothing that looks quite as good as a 757 on approach with gear down....I will miss it.

~Brett Big thumbs up
 
milemaster
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:38 pm

As long as airports with high demand and short runways exist (like SNA), there will always be a need for 757's.
 
blink182
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:44 pm

This is 4-5 out of several 757 operators. United, Delta, and American have large fleets of them and seem to be happy.

Anybody know the status of Iberia?

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
trickijedi
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:50 pm

As many reasons as we can come up with for its demise, the 757 will be around for a long while. This plane is a workhorse and airlines like it because of its flexibility in being able to fly the long and short haul trips.


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cba
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:53 pm

I must say, the shortage of orders Boeing is seeing for the 757/767 series is quite similar to the shortage of orders for the 737 classics about 10 years ago before they released the NG's. I think there is need of a new 757/767NG family. Improved range & fuel economy, commonality w/ 777 & 737NG, etc.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:13 pm

you are basing you idea or thought on the fact european comapies dont want or need the 757's?
they are airbus crazy, of coarse they dont want the 757.
the 757-200 imho is an awesome airplane, when you see that slender beauty comin down the alley on short finals into EGE with a light snow fall you will stand in awe.

the performance of this plane is amazing, it will infact be around for some time.
IMO

also, i am not slamming airbus. i am a big fan of the A320. i like the product, so go easy on me for the comment. it wasnt a slam.


ual 777 contrail

 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:15 pm

One thing is for sure, the -300 is doing nothing for the sales.
 
HAL
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:25 pm

May I remind all of you that there is a lot of economic ugliness in the world today. Nobody is ordering much of anything from anybody right now. Yes, there are a few orders here and there, but nothing like what happened in the last 10 years. Picking out one type like the 757 because orders are slow is ignoring the burning forest for the match on the ground.

ALL types of aircraft are slowing down their production rates. What the world needs is some stability, and some economic recovery before the assembly lines start back up to anywhere near their old levels again. And in this market, do you think any manufacturer would spend the Billions of dollars (or Euros) required to develop a new plane, or even a NG derivative of an existing type? If they did, they'd be nuts (and out of a job in a heartbeat).

I'd suspect that many of you commenting on this subject are young enough to not really remember other economic slowdowns from the past. This is a cycle, just like the one in the early 60's, the early 70's, the early 80's, and the early 90's (see a pattern here?????). There will be a recovery, the aircraft manufacturers will have new aircraft in development eventually, and the airlines will buy new planes. Until then, don't be so quick to write off planes because of slow sales in the last year or so.

Patience got us this far, and will help get us where we are going.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:03 pm

The 757 is a great plane but the reason for its continued production is probably diminishing. Both Airbus and Boeing have developed their A32X and 737NG families to the extent that they can almost carry out all of the duties previously the exclusive domain of the 757 when it came to narrowbodies.

Admittedly, neither the 739 or the A321 has the 757's range but then again few 757s travel over their maximum range as narrowbodies are unpopular on long-haul and planes such as the 763 or A332 are deemed better solutions for these missions.

The 757 is unlikely to attract many orders in the short term as most of the major US carriers, who comprise the largest group of 757 customers, are financially strapped. It is unlikely that any airline that does not already operate the 757 would adopt the 757 as a new type. The family concept offerred by the 737 and A320 is far more attractive.

717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:49 pm

Which Boeings are doing well ?

Good

737-700
737-800
767-300

OK

777-200
777-300
747-400

BAD

717-200
737-600
737-900
757-200
757-300
767-400
 
POSITIVE RATE
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 5:05 pm

The 757 is a great looking aircraft and i hope it stays in service for a long time yet. These days there are too many "boring" aircraft types being operated by the airlines i.e 737. The NG 737 is great but from a spotting point of view they are just as boring as watching a 737-300. The 757 looks very sleek especially in AA colours- it's just a shame we don't operate any here in Australia.
 
cloudy
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Mon Sep 16, 2002 5:40 pm

HkgSpotter's list seems to be based on the raw # of orders. It is also important to look at competitive factors. This is how I'd put each plane's CURRENT standing

The 767-300 has gotten orders but not nearly as many as the A-330. The A-330 has been chosen most times it has been pitted against the 767. For passenger airlines outside those with large established fleets(read, US carriers), the A-330 is most often the plane of choice. So I would put this one in the OK category. Maybe even BAD. Same thing for the 767-400.

The 737-600 and 737-900 are relatively niche-market airplanes that did not cost allot to develop. . Boeing never expected to sell all that many of them. These I'd put in OK also.

737-700 and 800 is getting orders but so are its airbus competitors at about the same rate. They, also, I would put in OK.

777 is doing GOOD. Comparisons are tougher with this one, but it has gotten allot more orders than the A-340. Even if you count many A-330 orders as choices against the 777, the twin-engined Boeing's order book looks good. Many airlines (Air France comes to mind) with a political preference for Airbus have ordered this plane anyway.

747-400 - current orders are indeed OK but the outlook is very shakey - 777 and A-380 will squeeze it out with time.

757-200,300 - agree, they are'nt doing to well now. But they have a really good following with charter and freight operators. They can't seem to get enough of them - this could keep the line open for a good long time. Remember the A-300/A-310....

717-200 - agree, this orphan's days are numbered unless either Northwest buys a large batch or Boeing takes a bet and builds the 717-300. The new Embraer planes could be its undoing.

In short 737-about even with the competition.
767- loosing ground, weaker than it appears
757 - retreating to a niche market, but a large niche market (cargo, charter).
747- Getting squeezed out with time.
777- Doing great and getting better all the time.
717- Just not doing well. An orphan.
But I'm no pro. Anyone in the industry have anything to say?

 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:04 am

Thank you HAL, you are right on the money with your comments. It is very short-sighted to look at the current market where most airlines are ordering NOTHING. Wait until everything shakes out hopefully before too long.

I'm curious to see what will happen in the next 5 years or so, assuming air travel demand picks back up and beyond where it was in the past in past years and grows beyond that. What will happen when the masses start flying again. Face it, sometime air travel will pick up back to where it was, considering the world population is growing and becoming increasingly more global. What is going to happen??? The majority of deliveries these days are RJ's, are we going to have an over abundance of RJ's in a few years and not enough mainline aircraft to cover routes. How are the glut of RJ's going to be handled at capacity constrained airport. Something is going to have to give someday and airlines will need airplanes larger than an ERJ or CRJ.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:00 am

Admittedly, neither the 739 or the A321 has the 757's range but then again few 757s travel over their maximum range as narrowbodies are unpopular on long-haul and planes such as the 763 or A332 are deemed better solutions for these missions.

Sorry , don't buy it. I've seen this assumption that "passengers prefer widebodies" on longer routes before on this forum, and there is simply no logic behind it.

A passenger sits in an airline seat. Whether the bulkhead to his left or right is two feet away, ten feet away or twenty is irrelevent. The passenger's space during a flight is the seat he or she is sitting in.

This also seems to be a recurring thought from Europe...Europeans prefer widebodies. Yet it was European charter airlines that first perfected the use of ETOPS 757s on longhaul operations!

The fact is if a 757ER can take it's customers to the exact mid or small sized non-gateway city as opposed to changing from a widebody to a short hauler to get there, that's gonna win. Whether the flight is two hours or ten.

HAL nailed it.....we're a year out of the most signifigant pax drop in aviation history. I also might add that one look at Mojave or Victorville or any of the storage areas shows a peculiar lack of stored Boeing 757s, indicating the design is still very much earning its' keep.
 
cba
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RE: Is The 757 Fading?

Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:42 am

Not only does the 757 have more range capabilities than the 739 & A321, but its performance is also better. Could a fully loaded 739 or A321 make it out of SNA or LGA with a full load, then fly transcon? I doubt it.

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