QFTJT
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Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:54 pm

This may have been discussed before but I can find no records of it. I recently found that Air New Zealand has placed a major order with Airbus, to acquire 15 of the European planemaker's A320 jets and has taken options on a further 20 in a deal worth USD$400 million.

Well with a stack of Ansett spares who wouldn't order Airbus. However there has been a lot of debate from you kiwi's that Ansett was us-successful because of their poor fleet selection. Having a mixtues of Airbuses, Boeings and BAE's. But isn't Air NZ doing exactly what Ansett did.

When the Airbus's arrive AirNZ will have a 737, A320's and 767's. The picture looks familiar, the Air NZ fleet is sounding like Ansett all over again. It would make more sense to me that Air NZ stuck with a all Boeing fleet. Maybe some 737NG's. But with the pilfering of the Ansett stores in Melbounre by Air NZ, a A320 fleet would be a cheaper option than 737NG's.


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I thought Air NZ had new 737-300? Why the new aircraft type?

QFTJT
 
United Airline
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:02 pm

Their B 737-300s are fairly new. I don't know why they need replacement.

 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:12 pm

Remember that they are also replacing the 767-200 as well as some of the 737-300s.

Also the A320 can carry cargo pallets where the 737s can only carry bulk.
 
StarFlyer
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:14 pm

Apparently, the Airbuses are a replacement for the 767 aircraft on trans-tasman and Pacific Islands services. Especially, they are to replace the old 767-200 aircraft, of which they still have three in service.
I suppose they want to free up some 767-300s up for long-haul services?
Also, it is unknown how many of those Airbuses will actually go to Air New Zealand and how many their subsidiary Freedom Air will get.

They didn't order 737s because they are too small for trans-tasman services.
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
QFTJT
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:18 pm

Too small for cargo or passengers?

QFTJT
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:30 pm

AirNZ still has 4 762s in service


Does anyone know which 733s are on the way out I'm guessing ZK-NGO won't be going as it has yet to enter service
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:36 pm

QFTJT - search back to about July, there was a thread started by TG992 then about it which explains why it was chosen. The 737 will be phased out of Air New Zealand's fleet over time. However, Freedom will keep their 737s. And can you please explain to me this 'Ansett pilfering' thing - preferably by e-mail because if it gets discussed here it will descend into a flame war. I have not heard one piece of evidence of NZ taking AN's spares, other than some stuff spouted by disgruntled employees and repeated on radio talkshows - a great source of factual information if ever there was one. Of course I could be wrong, like you I am only a lowly student, so I don't know everything.

V/F

P.S. Where do you fly Tomahawks? I was training on them in Auckland. However, the only outfit I am aware of that flies them here in Sydney has been described to me as a somewhat substandard operation.
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
United Airline
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:58 pm

They could have ordered the B 757-200. Or even the B 737-900.
 
B727-200
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:13 am


If NZ are getting A320's for the trans-Tasman route then maybe the Ansett Administrators (Korder & Menther) should charge NZ for the use of intelectual property.

Before things went belly-up, it was planned (by the planning area based in MEL) for AN to possibly take the NZ B762's and put them on Australian domestic, using the A320's across the Tasman to maximise profitability. There were a whole lot of issues, mostly union and regulatory, that didn't allow this to happen.

Oh and VirginFlyer, the missing spares were the least of the worries. NZ took over AN's treasury and in less than 12 months sold half the assets from under the company. When treasury was handed back to AN (under administration) the books were a lot thinner than when they were last seen at 501 Swanston street.

B727-200
 
danialanwar
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:29 am

As far as I know all Air New Zealand planes are leased, hence quite "replaceable" upon expiry of lease. The A320 can reach all of Air New Zealand's destination in Australia / Oceania (excluding Perth and Papeete, the later not an issue since all flight to there go onto LAX which needs their B763 anyway) with a full load of Pax and Cargo. So it's one type of plane for Australia, Oceania and domestic ... I believe the B752 or B739s would have been too big, so the decision must have been between 738 and A320s. I hope some major routes like Auckland-Sydney see increased frequencies.
Anyway, once they have their A320, their fleet will be B747-400, B767-300 and A320 + props.
Personally, I think Air New Zealand would be fit for all-Airbus operations (well, the jets at least). Have the A346 on the core routes to LA, LA-London, Tokyo and Hong Kong-London (if that ever happens), and the remainder can use the A330-200 which has the range to make it economically into Japan and Singapore.
Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:23 am

Air New Zealand owns a number of there aircraft

737-300 ZK-NGG, NGH, NGI & NGJ 747-400 ZK-NBS, NBT, NBU & NBV for example
 
QFTJT
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:37 am

VirginFlyer,

I fly PA-38-112 VH-FUO at Kyneton Municipal Airport (YKTN) located in central Victoria and really love it. I'm aware of a training school at Bankstown which operates Tomahawks can you tell me which one?


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I have a on-line Tomahawk club for owners and pilots that you might be interested in joining. There is the link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piperpa38tomahawkclub/

QFTJT




 
NZ767
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:30 am

QFTJT,

You've only just found out about Air New Zealand's Airbus order, but you claim rather cynically to know all about them having a stack Airbus spare parts allegedly stolen from Ansett.
Somehow that tells me you're not up with the play.
The spare parts issue was proven to be a lie.
Do a search on a number of sites, I haven't got time.
Either that, or we won't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
And BTW, ALL the 737s will eventually be going.
 
QFTJT
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:29 pm

Nz767

I have not just heard about the Airbus order I found out about it last month. All the NZ 737's will be going where? To Freedom Air? I still think Air NZ choice of A320's is related to "suspected spares" crossing the Tasmen. Anyway at least now you can't blame the Ansett demise on fleet selection alone, because now it is almost an exact copy on Air NZ's fleet.

QFTJT
 
TG992
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:10 pm

Username: TG992
Posted 03-19-02 11:01 and read 405 times.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to copy/paste my post of only a few weeks ago in a thread with the same sh*t, different name.

I've bolded some sections so the less perceptive among us can understand. As mx5_boy says, the allegations were investigated by the Administrator and found to be untrue!

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh god..

As I said in the PREVIOUS thread where you tried to ressurect this lie, Air NZ have denied this, and their denial has been confirmed by the Administrators (the first AND second lots)

Below is the official word on the matter. Let's hope this puts the vicious lie to rest once and for all.

25 September 2001

ANSETT ASSET STRIPPING DENIED BY AIR NZ: Air New Zealand Acting Chairman Dr Jim Farmer today refuted continuing Australian allegations that Air New Zealand had improperly removed cash and assets from Ansett Australia before calling in a Voluntary Administrator.

“We have investigated each and every allegation, and they are completely without foundation.

Why any thinking person would believe Air New Zealand would stoop to this sort of behaviour when at times during the past 12 months we have funded Ansett operating losses by as much as $A180 million is beyond my comprehension.

“Furthermore, the Administrator has confirmed to me that he has also been unable to find a shred of evidence of any of the alleged asset-stripping.

“For my part, I have told him that if any removal of Ansett’s assets or Ansett payment of Air New Zealand’s costs comes to light, Air New Zealand will naturally honour any legal obligation to make a compensating payment to Ansett”.

Dr Farmer said that allegations of cash and asset stripping at Ansett appear to be nothing more than a smear campaign.

Dr Farmer said he was reluctant to dignify false asset-striping claims with detailed denials, but would comment on the three most significant allegations by way of example.

ALLEGATION: Air New Zealand put $A200 million of its aviation fuel bills through Ansett’s accounts.

FACTS: The two airlines bought fuel on a competitive tender basis from oil companies at various airports, combining their purchasing power to get the best prices, but each airline had a separate account and oil companies billed the airlines separately based on aircraft registration numbers which identified the correct airline to be billed beyond doubt.


ALLEGATION: Air New Zealand grabbed Ansett jet engines and spares and flew them to New Zealand.

FACTS: Ansett leased a Canadian Boeing 767 which went to Air New Zealand’s Christchurch engineering depot to be prepared for Ansett, since Ansett’s engineering department was overloaded. The engines needed reconditioning. Air New Zealand replaced them with two fully reconditioned Air New Zealand engines to get the planes into the air, earning money for Ansett as quickly as possible. The original Canadian engines are being refurbished at Air Canada’s expense and will be swapped for the Air New Zealand replacement engines shortly. Two other Air New Zealand engines are currently at the Ansett facilities in Melbourne - one is used by Ansett engineering in the recalibration of their engine test cell, the other is held in reserve to provide support for Air New Zealand’s operations to Australia, or to assist any other operator needing support.

Arrangements to exchange engines and other rotable parts are usual - even among competing airlines - and were made in this instance to gain the best possible outcomes for both Air New Zealand and Ansett. Normal commercial terms applied to this exchange of services between the two legal entities.


ALLEGATION:
Air New Zealand improperly cleared out Ansett bank accounts in the last few weeks before a Voluntary Administrator was called in.

FACTS: Air New Zealand funded Ansett losses from the time it obtained a 100% shareholding in the company. The amounts advanced to Ansett by Air New Zealand fluctuated during the year as money was advanced to allow Ansett to make loan repayments and fund losses. Some repayments were made to Air New Zealand after Ansett refinanced unencumbered aircraft in its fleet. When Ansett went into voluntary administration on September 14 it still owed Air New Zealand more than $A80 million under the funding arrangements to cover its losses.

Dr Farmer said he understood there was considerable anger about the Ansett situation in Australia but urged an end to this smear campaign which had no factual basis.

-
 
Kiwi dave
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:56 pm

Do we know what the engines will be on the A320s?
 
StarFlyer
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:44 pm

There was a picture out on Air NZs website and to me they look like V2500s, but thats just the picture... Smile
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:56 pm

I have seen two pictures. One had V2500s, the other had CFMs. They were both official shots. They were posted on the original thread about this back in July, here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/867322/

Here they are for sake of ease, courtesy of Air New Zealand's webpage:




V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
airbuspilot
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:21 pm

That should be good news for all the ex-ansett busdrivers still wandering all over this earth in search of a job!!!

Good luck to all of you guys!!
 
Rick767
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:27 pm

That bird sure looks good in the ANZ livery, much nicer than the ugly 737  Big grin IMO the A320 family is one of the nicest looking aircraft in production, very photogenic.
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
StarFlyer
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Thu Sep 26, 2002 2:52 am

Wheres the StarAlliance sign on the picture? I hope that isnt a hint that they will be leaving?! Smile
Yours truly - StarFlyer
 
rpwgw
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:06 am

Good grief what drivel.

Why on earth would a stash of parts turn up at ANZES for A320s? They've never had one through the hangar for any major work, and if there are any parts in NZ they may be very few and far between in a rotable store controlled by AirNZ. And there are no A320 operators into NZ at the moment.

Air NZ didn't steal anything. That's been proven but why people continue to say it deifies belief. It's defamatory and that's why you don't see it printed in newspapers any more once the claim was refuted. But with the odd armchair critic out there they can't be bothered.

As for the IP claim - well yes Air NZ did a lot of work with Airbus and they knew well in advance of the Ansett acquisition just how good the aircraft performed not just from Ansett but from other operators. The Ansett operations just put icing on the cake.

 
NZ767
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:31 pm

"Anyway at least now you can't blame the Ansett demise on fleet selection alone, because now it is almost an exact copy on Air NZ's fleet."

No, not at all. Simply a phasing in of one type for another.
A320s will come, 737s will go, but it doesn't happen overnight.
When Ansett introduced the A320s, they weren't brought in to replace the 737s or the 727s for that matter.
They were simply an addition to the fleet.
In Air NZs case, they are replacements.
 
wingtip
Posts: 52
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RE: Air New Zealands Airbus Choice

Fri Sep 27, 2002 8:02 pm

I heard a rumour that Air NZ will choose both engines for their A320 fleet. Whether this is true only time will tell.

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