usairways85
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It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:44 am

I know many rumors have gone around that Delta was going to phase out the 732's from the Express routes and send them to mainline, as the 757's are taken from the mainline and put on Express routes, but i never really read anything that someone was 100% sure. Well on Justplanes.com it says Delta is officially going to start this process. It should be interesting to see how they utilize these 757's now. Whether new routes will be added/dropped and if frequencies will drop since larger planes will be flying the routes.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:47 am

they'll use about 40 757s. They were originally going to use 767-300s but backed out of it...

i did a posting about this about 2 months ago... ?

-nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
jhooper
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:48 am

I haven't seen anything "official" from Delta; but I could always be wrong.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:49 am

Why would they put the 732's on mainline?

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
jhooper
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:53 am

My guess is that they'll just get rid of the gas-guzzlers.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
godbless
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:53 am

I don't quite get the idea behind this move... Replacing 732's seems a right move but by large 752's... But using the 732's then on mainline seems rather irrational to me.

Max
 
SegmentKing
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:57 am

757s will fly alongside the 732s.. they aren't getting rid of all of them. Don't be surprised to see DL put some 738s in Express markets...

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
jhooper
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:58 am

The 738 seems ideally suited to express markets.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
godbless
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:00 am

The 738 seems resonable to me too.

Are they talking about the whole 757 fleet moving to Express?

Max
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:05 am

What's so irrational about putting the 732's back into mainline?

First, DL has to replace some of the capacity lost by shifting the 757's out of mainline and DL can't really afford to buy a bunch of new planes right now. Second, there are some RJ markets that are busting at the seems and need more capacity. The 732 fits into that niche as the MD88's are too much of a capacity increase. Granted the 732's aren't perfect, but for now they will work.

The extra capacity of the 752's is justified in markets like JFK-FLL where DL is going head to head with JBLU. One of the goals is to steal traffic back from JBLU....you won't do this with little 732's or 73G's. The 752's will also have a lower CASM and be more competitive on that front too.
 
jhooper
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:07 am

The 732 used to serve mainline in routes such as DFW-IAH.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
papatango
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:43 am

Question just because it was on just planes news this makes it official? I have not seen one press release from Delta and when I see one then it will be official
 
usairways85
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:47 am

yes very true, but normally if this type of news is released by this site it normally has some factual information to back it up.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:54 am

Also, you have to factor in that the 732's of DL Express are all in single class configuration so they need to convert them back to 2 class...I think putting 732's back into mainline makes little sense IMO...

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
contrails
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:05 am

I don't think I understand this. Is DL Express like AA Eagle or NW Airlink, a separate carrier set up to serve less-populous markets and thereby save money by using smaller more efficient aircraft piloted by crews who don't make quite as much money as mainline pilots? If so, and DL sends mainline 757's to the Express routes, will we have mainline aircraft serving Express cities with the only difference being pilots who aren't paid as much as pilots on the mainlines? If these Express cities are doing so well why aren't they made into mainline cities?

An explanation would be appreciated. If I am just dense please accept my apologies in advance. I don't follow DL developments very much since keeping up with AA and US, my primary carriers, is just about a full-time job in itself.

Thanks.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
jessman
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:29 am

Delta Express is more like Continental Lite and Shuttle by United than American Eagle. Single class, low service planes on low yield routes. Currently they're just used for bypassing the hubs between the northeast and Florida.

Delta Connection is the division of Delta that is comprable to AA Eagle or NW airlink; DL Connection uses the regional jets and turboprops to smaller communities from the hubs.
 
jmacias34
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:38 am

As asked above, will the entire fleet of 757's be shifted to DL EX, or only some. My main interest is what will become of the daily ONT-ATL run.
 
Trvlr
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:45 am

Jmacias34: I think Delta has over a hundred 757s, so there will be plenty left over once the change is completed.

Chances are we won't see anything drastically new on the West Coast as a result of this move; if anything, a few 757 routes will be upgraded to 767s or downgraded to 738s.

I don't think there's that bad of a chance for ONT-ATL to go to a 762...

Aaron G.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 8:12 am

Let me get this straight.... you guys are now saying that this is "official" because, of all things, justplanes.com says so. Oh, I can't help but laugh hysterically. Only an airliners.net user would consider that to be a valid source of information.

As for 757s, I suppose it's probable, and some people seem to have convinced themselves that it is a viable idea, but as I've said before, nobody seems to have stopped to think about the fact that whatever savings Delta is able to obtain thanks to the 757's efficiency could very well be absolutely obliterated by the amount of money that Delta pilots are contractually entitled to for the 757. Am I saying it won't happen? No. I suppose it will, but Delta's LCC strategy faces much bigger challenges than anybody around here seems to be aware of. It's not simply a matter of taking 22 First Class seats out of a 757 and suddenly you're going head to head with jetBlue.

Only time will tell, but you guys are jumping to conclusions. And I don't care what you heard, from whom, I won't believe anything until somebody within Delta *who is actually working on the project* tells me something, or until John Selvaggio makes his announcement.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
usairways85
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 8:58 am

let me stress that i said "appears" by no means do i think this is absolutely official, i just merely think that there is a Very Good chance of this happening
 
John
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:29 am

ALSO, Delta has stated that they're looking at RE-branding (or shall we say, reinventing), the Express product. It'll be interesting to see how this all works out.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:36 am

It is happening. It is not a rumor. DAL pilots have been told. ALPA has been advised. The aircraft are being modified. The position bids have been started. Training is being done. DAL may not be flooding the world with press releases, but I can think of a bunch of reasons why. Competitive reasons. DAL is holding those cards close to the vest. But 757's on Express is an open secret.
 
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United_fan
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:36 am

What about the dwindling 727 fleet ? Are the 738's being phased in as 727's are retired ? They'll be gone by next year,right ?
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:45 am

Yet another major US airline decides to start a low cost subsidiary........what are they nuts? Paging Continental Lite, US Airways Metrojet, Shuttle by United? Sure, the 757's are cheaper to operate than the 732's but honestly, would it not make sense to strip the fleet of the 732's, 727's, for the sake of fuel efficiency over the idea of creating a low cost airline?

It won't work. The majors have tried and failed to mimick Southwest. They can't do it.

ContinentalEWR
 
usairways85
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 10:56 am

no offense, but Delta is and has operated a low-cost subsidiary, Delta Express. They are simply changing the aircraft on the routes to allow them to compete with the low-fare carriers of the Northeast better. Now personally i dont think its too smart to phase in the 732's into mainline service. But like stated earlier, the 732 is a nice fit for cities that are too busy for RJ's but not busy enough to denote MD-88's and 738's.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:01 am

DeltaSFO. I just looked up the pay numbers on a 757 Express crew compared to a 737-200 Express crew. The difference is $117.00 per hour. A 12 year 757 Captain makes $70.00/hr more and the 12 year 757 FO makes $47.00/hr more than his counterpart. $117/hour more for around another 100 passengers. Using 100 seats for the 737 and 200 seats for the 757s put its is perspective when crunching the numbers.

Compare the total crew cost divided by the number of seats. The total 12 year 757 crew per hour cost is $412. $412/hr divided by 200 seats is 2.06/hr per seat. The 737-200 crew cost of $295/hr divided by 100 is 2.95/hr per seat. The 757 crew is cheaper than the 737 crew unless I have screwed up the math. (And I know the 737 seats a few more than 100 but its easier to divide by.)

On the same route one 757 is cheaper to fly than two 737's. Less fuel, less crew, less wear and tear, one less slot, less landing fees, and less support needed on the ground. This idea does lower costs.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:10 am

Let me add this to the mix. I think that DAL is considering constructing this LCC in such a way that DAL pilots will be the only mainline DAL pilots flying the operation. DAL pilots have contractual protections that keep them in DAL owned aircraft. I think DAL may hire customer service, FA's and new mechs for work on this airline in an airline. There is no contractual or legal reason that DAL has to use mainline personnel. Current economic/political conditions would allow DAL to make the argument to its employees that this has to be done for DAL's survival. This would slash costs and probably result in more layoffs at mainline DAL (as Fred Reid has allued to).
 
Guest

RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:21 am

>>I think DAL may hire customer service, FA's and new mechs for work on this airline in an airline. There is no contractual or legal reason that DAL has to use mainline personnel.<<

Delta does a good job keeping unions out, and makes it a fairly good place to work(best conditions can usually be in places that have unionization threats), but laying off massive amounts of customer service reps and hiring others on the cheap may not be a smart thing to do.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 11:39 am

It may present challenges, but look at it this way. DAL has fought off the union threat forever. And lately they have had to really fight hard. This has given DAL termendous flexibility with the majority of its labor force. They never have to negotiate, DAL can do what it wants. Now it the airline industrys darkest hour. Yields have totally evaporated in an economy that is NOT going to recover for years. DALs business plan is not working and Leo says we may have to abandon it. The losses are absolutely STAGGERING. Many carriers will go bankrupt and that will further depress yields like happened to DAL when EAL struggled to survive. We are on the brink of war with Iraq. The threat of terrorism is here for good. And Fred Reid said last week that he believes low cost carriers will capture up to 60% of the market! 60%! Leaving 40% for the big guys.

All this means that there is NO light at the end of the tunnel. I think Leo knows that and he thinks now is the time to make this move. It would make DAL LCC an instant contender with low cost comparable to SWA (or less) and with access to the rest of DAL's hub and spoke and Skyteam and Skymiles. As for those left at the mainline, they may actually understand the need to do this especially if it means stabilizing and strengthening DAL.
 
ChautauquaFA
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:04 pm

MD88Captain.....

Are you sure they would hire new Flight Attendants. If they are I would apply in a heartbeat. Is the service going to be like JetBlue....all coach leather seats. Also, are the 757's going to be based in MCO or ATL?

Thanks.....ChautauquaFA
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:11 pm

ATL based to begin with and I am not sure they will hire anyone at lower wages. I hear that it is being considered and I believe it is a viable option for DAL. But I emphasis that it is just conjecture at this point. But 757's on Express is going to happen in Nov or Dec.
 
ChautauquaFA
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:18 pm

Thanks for the response.....It would be nice to be able to be based in ATL and not have to keep commuting. The reason I was asking if it was going to be MCO based is because I am transfering to our new MCO base in DEC to start our new Delta Connection operation out of there. Have you heard anything at all about Chautauqua and our operation in Orlando. Our company doesn't tell us anything.

Regards......ChautauquaFA
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:25 pm

No I have not heard anything about that. Sorry.
 
flyCMH
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:25 pm

MD88Captain:

With a number of 757's being trasitioned to Delta's new low-fare initiative, I'm wondering what this means for the cities that currently have 757 service under current Delta operations, specifically Columbus. Prior to September 11, Delta was planning on bringing 767's into CMH. Infact, 2 of their new gates in the expanded Concourse C are capable of handling 767 aircraft. These plans were apparently scrapped. However, Delta's operations in Columbus are going through transition. Delta Express will be leaving Columbus in November, to be replaced with Chautauqua ERJ-145's. In addition, Comair will begin new service between CMH and DCA. But more importantly, I heard from a Delta agent that 767 is being planned for CMH again, possibly to start early next year and that supervisors are currently being trained in Atlanta to operate the loading platforms for the aircraft. I was wondering if you could possibly shed some light on this rumor? It would be much appreciated. Thank you.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:30 pm

No I do not know any specifics on 767's going to CMH but I would not be surprised. About 40 757's are going to the LCC and DAL has around 100 757's so mainline 757's will still be flying.
 
flyCMH
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:54 pm

Thank you very much for the quick response. It is much appreciated.
 
SegmentKing
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:59 pm

the 732s aren't leaving the Delta Express fleet. The 757s are there to compliment them.

I think i also said this earlier...

-nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
MD88Captain
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 1:11 pm

Actually the 732s will be transferred out of Express and the MCO pilot base closed by Dec 2003. Over the next 6 months 732's will go into CVG after being reconfigured into 2 class aircraft. The last crew bid took 75 crews out of MCO and put 75 crews into CVG. Most of the 150 pilots that bid CVG were not on Express. I think less than 10. So they will be and are being trained on the 737-200. All this information has been disseminated to the pilot group through ALPA, company memos, and base Q & A by the Chief Pilot, et al. For the next year DAL Express will consist of 737 and 757. And the bulk of the new low cost plan is to be revealed in the next 2 or 3 months according to Leo.
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:13 pm

MD88Captain...

Around 100 757s?

I don't consider 120+ 757s "around 100", that's significantly more.
no wire hangers!
 
Guest

RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:22 pm

I hope DL Express comes back to ALB with the 757s to re-start non-stop service between ALB and MCO to compete with WN.
 
BestWestern
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:17 pm

The DL 732's are still in excellent condition, although old, they are still reliable and comfortable, even in todays express layout...
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
tcttx
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:03 pm

Actually, DL's 732s aren't that old, they're some of the last 732s produced. Still, they've got to be hitting 15-20 years.
 
BUFjets
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:24 pm

Delta has some of the newest 732's. Twelve of Delta's 732's were built in 1986-7. That makes them newer than Delta's oldest 757's. The oldest 732 in Delta's fleet was built in December 1983. I don't consider these 732's to be too old. For example, Delta has 727's in their mainline fleet that are 1977-1979 vintage. AA and CAL have plenty of MD-80's in their mainline fleet that are as old as Delta's 732's. NW and Airtran have many DC-9's that are 15 years older (1968 vintage).
 
kevoc3
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:52 am

Are the 73's that are in the desert going mainline, or are they going to stay in storage?
 
777gk
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:16 am

A couple of things that have been rolling around re: the new Express at DL inflight, according my cousin, who has been working almost exclusively Express since June 2001 (when she had a disastrous trip to AMS and vowed she would never do international again. I can elaborate on that disaster if anyone is interested, but this is neither the time nor the place).

-The seats will be of DL's latest variety, with leather winged headrests and the fabric similar to the 737-800s and 777s.
-All flights will have entertainment available free of charge, but with headsets available for purchase
-Regular service will consist of drinks and peanuts and pretzels, but additional items such as candies and sandwiches will be available for a small fee
-Travel will be almost exclusively E-Ticket based
-Plus, several new innovations that "haven't been seen before" will be introduced to the ground and inflight experience, some features to perhaps set DLX apart from the competition
-In addition to these changes, an all-out marketing blitz is expected to be laid on the NYC metropolitan area in particular, to promote Delta's Express operation as a viable alternative to JetBlue and other low-fare carriers. A major point will be made of association with the SkyMiles program (as if they are worth anything nowadays!) and this fact will be played as a big-time trump card over JetBlue. A battle for New York may be brewing, and unfortunately, us over at Continental are preparing to lose even more of our NYC-Florida share to the low-fare boys!
 
jhooper
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:20 am

All flights will have entertainment available free of charge, but with headsets available for purchase.

does that sound like an oxymoron?
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
MAH4546
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:22 am

All flights will have entertainment available free of charge, but with headsets available for purchase.

does that sound like an oxymoron?


The thing is, you can bring your own headphones and it is free.
a.
 
777gk
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:24 am

Absolutely, but people are attracted to the word "free"!
 
jhooper
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:51 am

The thing is, you can bring your own headphones and it is free.

Of course it is; how can they stop you from that? That's like saying the in-flight meal is free as long as you bring it yourself!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
HlywdCatft
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RE: It Appears Official Now, Delta 757's To Express

Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:29 am

Wow that is news to me that they built 732s in the late 80s.

I didn't know that they were building 732s when they were building 733s already for a few years