deltadude8
Posts: 553
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DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:09 am

I was reading this book on Tri-Jets by Robbie Shaw and in the back of the book i found these stats, which kinda startled me, I want to know what you would take if you were the CEO of an airline now and had to pick a new L1011, or a new DC10?

Anyway here are the stats to help you come up with your answer:

DC-10 L1011

DC10-10 L1011-1
Wing Span 155ft 4in Same
Lenth 181ft 5in 117ft 8in
Height 58ft 1in 55ft 4in
Max. Pass. 380 400
Max TOW 410,000lbs 430,000lbs
Cruise 577mph 599mph
Max. Range 2350nm 2870nm

Last Version Produced

DC10-40 L1011-500
Wing Span 165ft 4in 164ft 4in
Lenth 182ft 1in 164ft 2in
Height 58ft 1in 55ft 4in
Max. Pass. 380 330
Max TOW 572,000lbs 496,000lbs
Cruise 573mph 605mph
Max. Range 4050nm 5260nm

Best Version in my opinion vs. its DC at the time

DC10-30 L1011-250
Wing Span 165ft 4in 155ft 4in
Lenth 182ft 1in 177ft 8in
Height 58ft 1in 55ft 4in
Max. Pass. 380 400
Max TOW 580,000lbs 510,000lbs
Cruise 564mph 605mph
Max. Range 4000nm 4520nm


Alright thats it....also CONSIDER THE SAFETY FACTOR...

DC10 crashes= 19

L1011 crashes= 5
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:34 am

Decisions. Decisions. Decisions. IMO, they're both excellant aircrafts for their time. The DC-10 Series 10 is one of my all-time favorite bird to fly on. I was totally comfortable in it as a passenger. And even tho, I've never flew on any L-1011s, it is a very elegant aircraft. No mistaking that low growl once the RR engines spools up. And the DC-10's GE chainsaw roar on take-off gave me goosebumps everytime. So, as CEO of an fantasy carrier, I'll take the DC-10-10 for the domestic routes, and the L-1011-500 for the international routes. What the hell...the original Pan Am flew both too.  Wink/being sarcastic Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
westjet_8
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:35 am

First of all it was out sooner by a couple year then the Tristar
Canadian. RIP 1999
 
Thumper
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:43 am

As I only flew the DC-10 twice compared to flying the Tri-Star probably 50-60 times, I would choose the L-1011! Loved that bird! Now between FLL and ATL I get to fly the 767-400 which is great also!
 
Fly_ATA
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 12:01 pm

I have always liked the L1011.
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:34 pm

What about the MD-11?
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:44 pm

I will fly on the L-1011-500 model overseas anyday! I like the powerful quiet Rolls Royce RB211 series engines and the control surfaces on the wings that come up all the time during turbulence to stabilize the aircraft.
 
United Airline
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:59 pm

DC 10 all the way!!!!!!!!!
 
Lemieux66
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:30 pm

I'm actually considering the age of the passenger trijets (727, dc-10, L1011 md-11 etc etc) as the topic of a paper im going to write for an aviation history class... Personally, I'd go with

1. MD-11
2. L1011
3. DC-10
4. 727
 
gerardo
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:40 pm

Having been on both, I'd prefer the L1011 from the passenger's view.

But you asked, what we would choose as airline CEO, and there I don't have any clue, as I would need more infos regarding operating costs and such.

BTW, my last flights on one of them were on the following birds:

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Photo © John F. Zielinski
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Photo © AirNikon



Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
cloudy
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:25 pm

Those crash statistics mean zip because there were allot more DC-10's made than L1011'S.

Just from what i've heard, the L1011's avionics were way ahead of their time. L1011 economic and payload/range performance were also generally better, or so Ive heard.

But Lockheed was marketing an orphan - they did not have any narrowbody or any other A/C type to complement it. And they were a newcomer to the commercial jet business. There were allot of delays/overruns with development of both the airframe and the engine. McDonald-Douglas planes had a much better maintenance and customer support/sales infrastructure behind them.
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:49 pm

The L1011, of course! It beats the DC10 wings-down ... cheaper to operate; more fuel efficient, the RB211-524B4 is marginally Stage IV compliant whereas the CF6 only just scrapes into Stage III; the aircraft is considerably more advanced than the DC10 (especially the -500 with its AFCS and Active Wing); it's probably the best designed and built widebodied aircraft ever.

On the other hand, the MD11 was an awful aircraft. Badly designed, it has very poor handling characteristics which have led to a significantly high number of crashes for identical reasons (think FedEx, China Airlines etc). SQ dropped it when it didn't measure up to its design performance.
 
khi747
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:51 pm

I read a book some time ago....do not remember the name.It talked how Douglas and Lockheed went into develop aircrafts for the same purpose......it was a great coincidence that when the two designs were revealed...the planes were almost identical....it talked how during the 1970's when airlines had to make a choice which way to go...the engineers on the panel would always heavily favor the L-1011 Tristar.....Cloudy is right...there main problem was that they were marketing an orphan otherwise the Tristar was probably a superior plane.
Personally....i have found the Tristar to be one awesome looking plane...the engine in the back and how its molded.integrated into the tail just looks so amazing and muscular....i remember flying a BA L-1011 in 1989 from London-Kuwait-Karachi....one of the best flights i have had im my life
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 6:29 pm

It is too bad that Lockheed will not go back into the commerical aircraft business and market a new advanced version of their L-1011 with FBW systems, digital two man cockpit, and engine options like the RB211, PW4000, and GE CF6 series.
 
garuda
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:14 pm

Are the range data correct? I'm pretty sure that Lockheed developed the Tristar -500 in order to compete to DC-10 series 30 and 40 since the previous Tristar models lacked in the range performance... But the data shown above showed a different thing...

JA
 
meechy36
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:35 pm

The L-1011 had 2 crashes, the Eastern one in the Everglades and Delta at DFW. Saudi had some bad luck in 1980 when one of their L-10's cargo hold caught fire, however the plane landed safely and taxied, the other one was where a tire burst at cruise altitude and 2 passengers were ejected from the aircraft. A Sri Lanken one had a bomb explode while on the ground killing 16 people.
Granted the L-1011 had a production run of only 250 aircraft but in 30 years of flying to have only 2 crashes that is something.

Mike-BOS
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:51 pm

According to a movie I saw back in the 80s, the cause of the crash of Eastern Flt 401 was because the flight crew was not paying attention to the altimeter after the auto pilot quit during their approach into MIA. The flightcrew was focusing on a burned out light bulb on the instrument panel for the front landing gear.
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:58 pm

The Delta crash at DFW was caused by windshear and not from a mechancal defect on the L-1011.
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:51 pm

Not one L1011 has ever crashed due to a design fault ... unlike the DC10 and MD11.
 
ba319-131
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:53 pm

Having flown numerous DC-10's,a mix of -10,-30 and -40 and having only had 2 L-1011-500 flight's - i'd go for the L-1011.

It was so much smoother in flight than the D10,and from a passengers point of view it just felt right.

The L-1011-500 flight were many years ago when DL flew MIA-LGW-MIA,flight no's were DL98 and DL99,both manchines were x Pan Am - N755DL,N756DL.

I think that's right,I can't access my flight log at the moment.

Rgds

BA319-131
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
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ATA L1011
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 11:06 pm

The L1011 is was and is a great aircraft.
Treat others as you expect to be treated!
 
sushka
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 11:10 pm

I have never been on an L1011 but still I think I would prefer the DC10-10 or the DC10-30.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Thu Sep 26, 2002 11:29 pm

deltadude8,
how many DC-10's were made compared to the L-1011?


i would take the DC-10 anyday.


ual 777 contrail
 
Captain.MD-11
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:23 am

I only got to fly on one DC-10, a UA DC-10-10 from KSEA to KORD. That was my favourite flight of all time. Unfortunately I never managed to get on an L1011, so I would have to choose............................... BOTH!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Twins,twins, everywhere.... but where are the three holers?
 
GDB
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:47 am

BA loved the Tristar, though the effects of the 1991 Gulf War hastened the aircraft's retirement, and the early 80's recession saw the -500's go after a couple of years (to the RAF as tanker/transports where they still serve), but in 1985 a couple of -500's were leased from Air Lanka for a time, (I've a pic somewhere of one of these with the 4th engine pod in use, ferrying a RB211).
Great aircraft, the cockpit was known as 'The gentleman's Office'.
I flew on them a couple of times, I've been on a CO DC-10 in 1990.


 
dc-10 levo
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:52 am

Never liked the L1011, and just by looking at my name, I think i'll choose the DC-10!  Big thumbs up



DC-10
 
BWIA 772
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:16 am


I think that if the L1011 programme did not have a problem with the engine developement or what ever it was that hindered the programme that Lockheed will still be in commercial aviation. The L1011 is a very nice aircraft I like how the doors open up into the fuelsalage, I wonder why no other airliners today has it.

As testiment to design one can look at BWIA fleet of L1011 it is now the last original operator and worked those birds to the bone.
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Eagles Soar!
 
airblue
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:32 am

I flew both planes few years ago with International Airways and Peach Air, two charters from UK, and even if both planes were old and with an high density cabin layout, I loved both.

I think this bird are far better than some "modern" plane....

 
AFC_Ajax00
Posts: 740
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:51 am

A modernized and upgraded L-1011 would be really cool, I agree. New avionics, engines and maybe a stretch as well.
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:52 am

386 DC-10s were assembled, plus another 60 KC-10s for the USAF.
250 L-1011s were produced. Numbers for Ual777contrail. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:15 am

I would take the DC-10 over the L-1011 in a heartbeat. Although I am a fan of the L-1011 also.

UALrampORD
 
pilottim747
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:48 am

Unfortunately, I only got to fly on a L1011 once, on Delta from ATL-MCO. I don't remember much because it was a while ago. I will admit it was quite advanced for it's time (first to have fly-by-wire).

Just wondering, what made the L1011 have such a smooth flight? TEDSKI said something about control surfaces coming up.

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
lubcha132
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:11 am

hands down the L-1011.
 
N751PR
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:18 am

Most likely the L1011 but both are cool (hey I'm a fan of Trijets! Big grin plus they were built in the same county!)
"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
 
heavymetal
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:49 am

Playing the role of a CEO today, I'd pick the DC-10. No contest. There are more of them flying, along with a generous amount of parts out there, especially after FedEx's dis of the ex- AA machines.

Personally, though, my favorite was the L-1011. In those glorious days when BOS Logan Tower's 16th floor observation room was open, one of the more memorable events was a cold afternoon TWA Tristar engine start. We'd giggle at what the passengers must be thinking as this massive white plume engulfed the aircraft.

I also believe the L-1011 was a better engineered aircraft. The endless delays of the engine development gave Lockheed engineers time to ask important questions again and again. Time their counterparts at Douglas didn't get, much to the detriment of their design.
 
trintocan
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:32 am

TriStar all the way, again I am a fan of the BWIA birds. I have flown them 11 times, several on the long POS-LHR route. Very smooth and comfortable planes with a noticeable nose-up cruise, those planes have served well with BeeWee. Now, only 1 TriStar 500 (9Y-THA) keeps Lockheed with a first-tier operator active.

I have never flown on DC-10 or MD11 though - my father has flown on both types and has said that they are very smooth too.

I have also flown on Eastern and YES TriStars once each.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
Max Q
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:54 am

BWIA772

Totally agree with your approval of the Wonderful, unsurpassed L1011, just for your info all 767's have the inward and upward L1011 type doors.

Pilottim747, in reference to 'control surfaces coming up' I think the writer is referring to the ' active control system' which almost eliminated significant pitch changes on approach by tying in the spoilers which deflect up and down to stay on the glide-path, instead of elevator only. I think they may also have assisted in turbulence alleviation.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
ual777contrail
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:05 pm

heavymetal,
fedex's dis of the AA machines?

thanks, flagshipaz

ual 777 contrail
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:18 pm

I think he means dismantling, not disrespect!  Big grin Big grin
 
User avatar
lindy field
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:46 pm

Regarding L-1011 accidents... What about the TWA L-1011 crash at JFK? See photos below:


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Photo © John Petro
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Photo © Joe Pries

 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:47 pm

Rejected takeoff due to spurious warning - aircraft way overweight, was slammed back on the ground, split the fuel tank and whoosh!
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:14 am

I think he means dismantling, not disrespect!

What's the difference!?  Wink/being sarcastic
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:30 am

"...the other one was where a tire burst at cruise altitude and 2 passengers were ejected from the aircraft"

No such accident occured.

There was an accident with a passenger being sucked out of a DC-10 after an uncontained engine failure blew out a window.




L-1011: As sexy as the flight attendants that flew inside her.
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
FDXmech
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:21 am

L1011's are as rare as hens teeth, and for quite some time. That tells me something. The DC10 was and still is relevant to the commercial air fleets.
The L1011 staging a comeback is reminiscent to the oft rumored Beatles reunion of past decades, it just aint happening.

I fail to understand how the L1011's avionics are eons ahead of the DC10. The DC10 as the L1011 are CAT3B certified. It appears Lockheeds marketing department has done their job well in perpetuating the myth of the Tristar.

My experience is that the DC10 flies much smoother and is much more reliable than the Tristar.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
BWIA 772
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:48 am


Because an airline might be more advance than its competitors that does not mean that the airline would be the market leader. The Tristar is a reliable aircraft look at Delta.
Eagles Soar!
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:03 pm

Hmmmm,

Nice picture!! I thought you were going to make a sucking reference with the picture. Flight attendant, engine intake, eehhhhh, nevermind. LOL

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the L-1011 make the first commercial hands off autoland in 1972?

I agree with others here. An L-1011NG would be awesome. Comon Lockheed!!  Big thumbs up
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:07 pm

Because it is such a beautiful and Graceful Aircraft, I would choose...............The......DC--No no no. L-1011
Puhdiddle
 
ejaymd11
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:17 pm

FDXmech when people talk about how much more advanced the L1011 I would just pay them no attention. You made the points I've alway wanted to make but never did.

Ejay MD-11
 
Guest

RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:47 pm

Hmmmm, I agree totally that the flight attendents that flew in the L-1011 are sexy!!! Love those long legs!!!
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
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RE: DC-10 Vs. L1011, Which One Would You Pick....

Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:34 pm


I guess if some one comes and tell me that the 767-400 and the 717 are advacne aircrafts one should ignore them as well. I think when people say that the L1011 was advance they are merley talking about the feature that the aircraft had which were not as common then as they are now.

According to Phillip Birtles' Airline color history Lockheed L1011. The introduction reads "The Tristar, Lockheed's only commercial jet airliner, was launched at a time of rampant inflation and the financial penalties almost brought the company to a ruin. Not only were lauch costs too great for one organistaion, but the TriStar was not sucessful enough to allow the company to reap the dividens of its development costs by lauching a family of jet airliners, bringing a broader customer base. Instead Lockheed was left with all the eggs in one basket and unprofitable eggs they were too."

I stilll ove the doors only the 767s only aircraft in current production to have them as I was informed. The power doors lol.
Eagles Soar!

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