contrails
Posts: 1310
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

"Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 2:57 am

Just saw a crawler on CNN saying the TSA is about to being testing of "Trusted Traveler" ID cards at LAX and PHL. No details.

I'll be interested in seeing how this works. If it does I'll sign up for it.

Comments?
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BR715-A1-30
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 2:59 am

When you get more info, let us know.
Puhdiddle
 
contrails
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:06 am

Details:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/09/25/transportation.id.ap/index.html
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heavymetal
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:10 am

Logical. Efficient. Understandable.

And ominous.

How long is it going to be before the US government requires "Trusted Traveller" cards? Not sure I dig this idea.

Besides, it seems like a fairly scaleable hurdle for any determined terrorist.

It's sad that all these "feel good" strict security measures being bandied about make people forget why 9/11 happened in the first place.....a breathtaking breakdown of the system...from foreign intelligence to domestic follow-thru to basic regs at the airport.... that existed then.
 
wn700driver
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:40 am

Heavy,

True but don't fool yourself. If anything the US gov't is even More inept in those departments now than prior to 11. sept.
As for security measures as we now know the, yeah, no semi-competent terrorist should have any rouble with that. Pain in the arse for the law-abiding public though.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
Guest

RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:47 am

Easiest way to do a repeat of 9/11 is to buy a few of the 2,000 aircraft currently sitting in the desert and fill them with fuel and explosives ... and away you go. Bypasses all these great new security measures ... and no worries about the crew squawking 7500 either.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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--The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, declared in force December 15, 1791

[the United States] can't be so fixed on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans...
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jhooper
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:29 am

Easiest way to do a repeat of 9/11 is to buy a few of the 2,000 aircraft currently sitting in the desert and fill them with fuel and explosives

That's a scary thought. Hopefully we aren't giving any "sleeper cells" any bright ideas..
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
mf3864
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:33 am

better yet... hey Saddam, wants some new planes? oops... we did it again
 
jimbobjoe
Posts: 450
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:36 am

There's a great article on security issues at http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/09/mann.htm

It talks about Bruce Schneier, a big expert in all types of security issues, including computer security and cryptography. At any rate, when you talk about a new security system, there are two questions to ask:

1. What problem is it trying to solve?

2. What happens when it fails?

Ok, so for the first question. Let me say this really quickly, identifying an individual is not a goal. It doesn't achieve anything except for some psychologicaly comfort (which I hypothesize is a big factor involving ID cards.) It can not assess whether you like watching football games on the couch with a beer, you prefer barefoot walks on the beach, or you want to hijack an airliner to British Columbia. It does pretend to though, which is really bothersome to me.

I have no answer to what problem it's trying to solve. I think it solves nothing.

So when it fails, it probably doesn't fail in any particularly significant way. (I would say a failure would be trusting a traveler who ended up doing something that they were not expected to do. It can be said though that that trusted individual may have been caught otherwise had they not been trusted.)

We also hit this odd illogical element: If we have the system in place for 20 years, and no terrorist incidents happen, then people will say the system is a success and all americans should now have trusted traveler id cards. On the other hand, if the system fails, and a terrorist incident occurs, then the problem was not enough money/resources put into the current system, and we need to add more resources and get every american part of the system.

Either way, it doesn't really solve anything, and it's at a tremendous cost financially and to our freedoms.
 
jhooper
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:24 am

The consequences of identity fraud might be offset if biometric licenses and visas helped to prevent terrorism. Yet smart cards would not have stopped the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. According to the FBI, all the hijackers seem to have been who they said they were; their intentions, not their identities, were the issue. Each entered the country with a valid visa, and each had a photo ID in his real name (some obtained their IDs fraudulently, but the fakes correctly identified them). "What problem is being solved here?" Schneier asks.

That was an interesting article. If there's a will, there's a way...
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
jhooper
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:26 am

"The consequences of identity fraud might be offset if biometric licenses and visas helped to prevent terrorism. Yet smart cards would not have stopped the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. According to the FBI, all the hijackers seem to have been who they said they were; their intentions, not their identities, were the issue. Each entered the country with a valid visa, and each had a photo ID in his real name (some obtained their IDs fraudulently, but the fakes correctly identified them). "What problem is being solved here?" Schneier asks."

That was a direct quote from the article; no intent to plagiarize.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
Squigee
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RE: "Trusted Traveler" ID Cards

Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:20 am

So what will stop a potential terrorist from taking a dozen trips in the North-East corridor, obtaining a "Trusted Traveler" card, and then getting through security easier. It just doesn't make sense to allow one group of people easy access through security checkpoints. Either you apply security procedures fairly and evenly, or you scrap them alltogether.
Someday, we'll look back at this, laugh nervously, and then change the subject.

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