captaingomes
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Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 5:54 am

Hello folks, just heard a little tidbit today which I found interesting. Air Transat is looking at 777's, since there are a few sitting in the desert right now, and need a home! I also heard that they are not happy with the A310's because the fuel burn is 5% higher than what Airbus promissed. Another thing is, Air Transat may be interested in 757's (non ER) for domestic or southern routes.

What's my take on this? Seems fishy to me all in all. I really don't expect to see Air Transat 777's flying around, especially since they have A330's. They are probably trying to pressure Airbus to get better deals for more A330's. Where does that leave the 757? They are getting rid of the ones they have now, but replacing them with non ER models seems like a backwards step.

Don't take this as fact, because there's probably no truth at all to it, but I'm wondering if anybody else has heard anything else about Air Transat?
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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STT757
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 5:57 am

I would think the 757-300 would fit well into their "Sunshine" flights, (ie Florida, Carribean etc).
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:06 am

Actually I think its 767's and 777's that they are looking at and it will be a complete airbus replacement...I.e. A330's and 310's Right now its more a rumour then anything else, but the word is that Boeing is giving them a good deal, and the airplanes seem to fit in very well...I would think that this would also mean that the 757's will not be phased out...

In other news, jetsgo will be flying 5 aircraft by the end of this year and have one spare, as opposed to the original plan of only 4 aircraft total...

Good news all around...looks like boeing is trying to get some more business out of us Canadians...  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:09 am

I think that the 321 would fit into their florida run nicely....and what crack are you smoking Captaingomes, or do you have a leak in you exahust?

I don't think that you can really be the 767 for their routes...as we saw last night, they have to keep using the L1011's it makes sense, they are paid for!!!

Maybe if TS got some old 762's or something like that at a good deal and the cost of flying was good.....but i don't see a 777 cost and what they get for a ticket feaseable?

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:14 am

Grant, Im sure Boeing is matching the 330 lease for the 777 leases for transat, and that 767-300 is actually a great airplane for thinner international sharter. C3 was strongly considering a number of times in its history, and the airplane would probably do very well, and cost about half as much as an L1011 to operate even if the L10 is owned out right, not to mention that the 76 is economical on a YYZ-YUL or a YYZ-FRA. Both are used by charter carriers all over Europe, and seeing as how Transat mimicks European charters in a number of ways I think the planes would be great...

That said I still think it is all rumour and nothing will come of it...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 7:00 am

Hey Slawko, you are the man when it comes to aircrafts, it just seems that the 777 is very expensive, if TS gets some, why hasn't AC replaced 67's with 777???

How about this, if when AC was getting rid of the L10's (the ones that TS has now!!!) the 777 was available and proven to be a good aircraft like it has been proved today, do you think that we would see the 777 in AC colours???

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 7:05 am

I heard that the 777 was too expensive for AC. Also, AC are going for an almost all Airbus fleet.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 7:31 am

so how many can ts get in the 777?
Drive it like you stole it!
 
Marrrty
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:00 am

"....so how many can ts get in the 777?"

600-700 pax
 
Skywatcher
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:10 am

Now that the Cdn.$ has stabilized and may strengthen I think the Boeings are becoming more attractive fot TS.
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:21 am

So you are saying that TS can put 600-700 passengers in that aircraft with all or mostly crammed seating.....and then what 15 or so TS Plus seating??

Where are they going to get all of the passengers???

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
srbmod
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:26 am

With U.S. Airways' and the AA (TWA) 767-200s being on the market, it could be possible to get them at a good price. As for the 777, perhaps Delta could lease the two out to Air Transat since they tried to get SAA to lease the two that Delta doesn't need at this time?
 
Marrrty
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:29 am

They'll just keep cancelling flights to FLL, or MAN for a few days until they get the #'s needed to fill the 777. Then, Capt. Piche will take over.....
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 8:51 am

AC has not replaced 767's with 777's because they are built do do completly different jobs...the 777 is more of an A330/340 competitor, and it makes more sence to have the 330/340 family for AC because of fleet comonality..
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 11:02 am

What about the A300 for TS, that is a bigger aircraft, but apparently they don't like the A310 so that means that they will no like the A300??

Is AA gettin rid of them???

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
fallingeese
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:04 pm

Gmonney - the A300 would be a step backwards for Transat. The problems with the A310 would only be carried over.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:49 pm

I don't believe this rumour. TS has made a major commitment to Airbus by adding the A330 & A310. It's more than just lease rates....it's also training, parts, etc.

The success of TS is due to cost minimization. A fleet rollover from Airbus to Boeing would be very expensive right now. The 777 is selling very well....Boeing does not need to make deals with charter carriers to sell the 777. Indeed, the 777 is arguably the most capital intensive new aircraft (after the 744).....TS could ill-afford the lease payments on a 772.

I was surprized at the draw-down of the 752 fleet.....this remains the most cost effective aircraft in the TS fleet on a per-seat basis. Although it makes sense in light of the Airbus rollover.

I'm sure that TS will stick with Airbus now.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
cba
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:59 pm

Remember, Air Transat would most likely NOT want the -ER variant. The 777-200A would be considerably easier to aquire. And with an operating cost about equal to that of the 333 and a higher seating capacity, the 772A would be a great choice.
 
AF-A319
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:45 pm

Hey

Have you any article proving that TS is not happy with their A310s? When these a/c were introduced to their fleet, it was not a natural choice, but their low cost and the availability made them attractive to TS.

I remember having chatted with a TS pilot explaining that the Company was very happy with them? Why and when did it change?


AF-A319, live from the building opposite to Air Transat Headquarter in Montreal  Wink/being sarcastic
 
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BO__einG
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:16 pm

I think they should think about investing on some 717's.
Although it would be nice to see a former MD designed plane which isnt the DC9 or the MD80, the 717 too has some significant drawbacks which TS may not be interested in.. Ah well, just my thoughts. AirTran have like 40 and they seem to enjoy using em big time.

I feel puzzled that they are looking at the 777. And downgrading its 757ER to 757 Regular?! They may as well take off the Rolls Royce engines and replace them with Pratt n Whitneys.
To my last check, TS has only 2 757s remaining in their fleet.
C-GTSN, C-GTSJ.

Ooh, I didn't know they got a fourth A330 plane?! C-GPTS.
When was this added to their fleet?
I better start hunting for this new addition.
Follow @kimbo_snaps on Instagram or bokimon- on Flickr to see more pics of me and my travels.
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:04 am

It was added not too long ago....june maybe, it was a welcome addition to the fleet i am sure. I think that for charters the 330 has everything they need......GREAT GLIDING CAPABILITIES!!!

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
AWspicious
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:42 am

Ever stop to wonder if Airbus might have considered the (remote) possibility of someone running out of gas mid-flight when they were disigning those long-azz wings for the 330/340 (heh heh)

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:06 am

What the hell are they going to use 717's for? This a charter airline. Where are they going to put them?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:34 am

Their 3rd 332 (and 4th 330) was delivered new from Airbus in May.

The 772 would have a higher operating cost (based on higher lease payments). The sole 333 operated by TS is a relatively early model 333 and hence would be cheaper to lease than a new 772.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ba319-131
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:01 pm

This all sounds a little odd.

To state that the fuel burn is 5% more than than Airbus promised is unlikely,the A310-300 has been flying for some year's now, so it's not as if it's a brand new plane and 'Airbus claim the fuel burn will be XYZ based on computer models'.

The 777 is not a 'charter airline'plane,it's way too expensive to operate for charter airlines,given their RPK and risk's involved.

The one and only charter operator(Air Europe), is looking to get rid of their 2 777-200's and replace them with A330-200's.

Just my 2 cents

Rgds

BA319-131
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captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:23 pm

I do agree with your comments, BA, but I'm just relaying what I've heard, and from numerous sources. If anything happens, it would more likely be getting 767's, and more A330's. Only time will tell though.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
ba319-131
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:37 pm

I would agree that replacing the A310's with 767's would makes sense.

The 767 is a better aircraft for Transatlantic op's(for example).

The A310 has almost nothing in common with the A330's that Air Transat operate from a pilots point of view,ie it's not like a simple conversion from A320 to A330/340 and being able to fly both,one on one day the the other on the next.

If TS plan to keep a 757 fleet, the 767 would be better as pilots can be cross qualified to fly both types,as BA has done with their 757/767 fleet.

Rgds

BA319-131
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:12 pm

TS is still planning on disposing of their 2 remaining 752's, in fall 2003.

A fleet rollover to Boeing (as much as this Boeing fan would like it!) is just not feasible for TS. Say they went for the 767.....that would mean a 767/A310/A330/L15 fleet at the same time during the rollover period. What a logistics nightmare.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
donder10
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:14 am

They seem rather comitted to the 332/3 at the moment.How many of their L1010s still fly?
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:11 am

TS has 9 L10's in service. The 6 L15's are used on reg charters. The remaining 3 L10's are used primarily for backup.

Typical routes for the L15 from YYZ are MCO/FLL/PIE/YVR/LGW/LIS.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:30 am

Transat just got another new A330. Why would they suddenly switch their fleet accumulation in mid gear and get a triple 7? My bud who works for Transat has told me many times that one the L-10's and 757's are gone, they will be an all Airbus fleet.
 
tristar2000
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:50 am

When I worked for Air Transat, I heard that when they had to make that choice a few years back, company officials had to choose between either Airbus or Boeing in order to upgrade their fleet.

Once the 1011s were to be gone, the fleet could have looked like this:

1) A330s and A310s

2) B777, B767 and B757

Apparently, the fact that Transat had many interests in Europe weighed greatly in their decision, and it sounded like even then European partners didn't like the fact that Air Transat was still flying the L-1011 a lot to Europe instead of Airbus products.

Nothing's impossible (they built Mirabel and went back to Dorval), but I'd say now that AT has made its choice, I highly doubt they will choose to switch back to Boeing products. The only thing is that Boeing is now making more appealling deals since last year's event as planes are less in demand.


Best regards,
Steven  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
donder10
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RE: Air Transat 777?

Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:42 pm

Cheers YYZ717,
the L1011 is becoming increasingly rare at LGW too now Sad

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