Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:03 am

ANZ has signed the awaited A320 deal. It covers 5 firm orders for the A320 FAMILY (!!) and another 10 will be leased. In addition ANZ has taken 20 options. No engine choice has been announced. The first plane will be delivered in 10/03.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
B727-200
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 11:28 am

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:05 am


Not bad for a near bankrupt airline...........
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 12:20 am

Without wishing to get into an A v B war here it amazes me that ANZ would be so desperate to obtain new planes.

Many Airlines are struggling financially because the perceive that newer is better. Most of their 733s are not very old and in fact the 4 733s they OWN NGG NGH NGI and the VERY LAST 733 built NGJ are only 3 years old!!

I fail to see how they can afford the huge cost that is associated with fleet changes. (Training,maintanence etc)

Northwest are in no great hurry to retire their DC9 fleet... not the newest.. sure... more expensive to maintain.. probably.. but they OWN them and the reliable old girls OWE them nothing and still make good dollars for NW.

What are the diferences in operating costs between 737NG and A32X. I bet the difference is so insignificant it hardly warrants ANZ changing the fleet. Why did Qantas and Virgin Blue not go A32X???
 
Guest

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:29 am

Extra cargo capacity, cheap offer from Airbus are some factors that ANZ goes A320s.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:44 am

Bigo 747 is right, I bet their got the planes for the price of an apple and an egg; plus NZ is one of the most isolated countries in the world and it's national airline needs loads of cargo capacity. The A320 is miles better than the 737 for cargo space, plus it's got longer legs for those long routes out of NZ. Don't know about the 737 but the A320 flies in BA colours from London to Central Asia, Tehran, northeast Africa etc. I never thought I'd live to say this after what those fuckers did to Ansett but...GO AIR NZ!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:17 pm

"Cedarjet" I never thought I'd live to say this after what those fuckers did to Ansett but...GO AIR NZ!

It is ironic how ANZ were relatively strong BEFORE the Ansett takeover and Ansett nearly killed both of them.

ANZ were forced into the sale of Ansett(lemon) to gain access to the Australian market to which they had been denied.

Ansett was failing anyhow in many ways and with ANZ ownership Australians loved to reminisce about the 'good old Ansett' and then FLY Qantas because Ansett was owned by kiwis. Doomed for failure ... move on ...

Perhaps the National Rugby League Trophy will cross the ditch in an Air New Zealand Jet bound for Auckland... GO THE WARRIORS!!!!!
 
Skystar
Posts: 1339
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2000 3:58 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:25 pm

NZ weren't forced to buy AN, and I don't think anyone apart from Cushing actually wanted them to buy all of AN!

I don't really think Aussies flew QF, because AN was Kiwi owned - quite frankly I don't think many people cared about that until the end. You didn't see people say "boycott DJ because they're British" when they started, did you?

Dick Smith hasn't moved into the Australian airline industry, so I don't think we'll see too much jingoistic marketing for the time being.
 
QFTJT
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2000 7:56 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:54 pm

Cedarjet

If the A320 is "miles better than the 737", why didn't AirNZ order them in the first place.

Boeing767-300

"It is ironic how ANZ were relatively strong BEFORE the Ansett takeover and Ansett nearly killed both of them."

"ANZ were forced into the sale of Ansett(lemon) to gain access to the Australian market to which they had been denied".

It is ironic how for the past 10 years Ansett had been running strong until the ANZ take-over. Maybe ANZ is now the new "Pacific lemon" with a 737/A320/747/767 fleet which is a almost identical copy of Ansett. Is ANZ going the same way Ansett went?

Anyway let's hope that those A320 which will be flying to Australia won't drop parts on Australian soil like the two ANZ 747's ZK-*** and ZK-***.
 
NZ767
Posts: 1553
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RE: Air New Zealand Order

Sun Oct 06, 2002 5:09 pm

QFTJT,

"Maybe ANZ is now the new "Pacific lemon" with a 737/A320/747/767 fleet which is a almost identical copy of Ansett. Is ANZ going the same way Ansett went?"

Like I said to you before, the A320s are replacements for the 737 fleet.
All the 737s will eventually be leaving but that doesn't happen overnight so no way are they going to have a fleet mix like Ansett had.
Has it sunken in yet?
And regarding parts falling off aircraft, I recall a Qantas 767 over the Northern Territory dropping something recently.
Not to mention a 747 losing a major part (the whole bloody fuselage) at Bangkok not too long ago.
Do you remember those or is your memory too selective for that?  Insane
 
Beno
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 6:52 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:20 pm

In response to NZ767 comments at the end of your post, you must remember that QF has double the 747 fleet and triple the 767 fleet of Air NZ and flies hundreds more flights each week.
 
v jet
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 9:04 am

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Sun Oct 06, 2002 8:02 pm

Come on now NZ767. At least they found the fuselage in BKK and put it back together....
Done worry it wont be long before all NZs troubles are over, you know, with QF going for the 25% or thereabouts!  Innocent
 
QFTJT
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2000 7:56 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 7:35 am

NZ767

Seeing my memory is not too selective, the Qantas Bangkok incident did not write-off the aircraft or kill anyone, un-like the Antarctic NZ DC-10 excursion, but let's not go there.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:48 am

QFTJT - that last comment was disgusting and trivialises the memory of the 257 passengers, crew, and staff who died in Erebus. Many staff from 1979 still work at the company and I can assure you that day will never be forgotten.

Both airlines, like airlines worldwide, suffer from the occasional mishap. 3 QF flights to NZ have been delayed until the early hours of the morning this week, and 3 NZ flights to RAR/LAX/MEL have been delayed until similar times. QF lost the landing gear doors from a 767 last year because the pilot opened them at a too-high speed, causing them to shear off. NZ lost a fuselage panel because the engineer made a mistake and signed it off when it shouldn't have been. QF escaped losing a 744 and 400 lives at BKK with pure luck and a lot of repair money - the mishap ocurring because of a misguided company policy to avoid the use of reverse thrust if possible. NZ wasn't so lucky, and lost a D10 and 257 lives because of a combination of pilot error and the flight planning department correcting the coordinates and not telling the crew.

My point is, no airline is perfect, no airline ever will be perfect. Both airlines operate to an extremely high standard, and are considered among the world's best. Let's not play these childish games, and instead get back to the topic of this post.

The engine choice should be announced shortly! Any guesses on what it's gonna be?
-
 
Guest

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:27 am

QFTJT:
Seeing my memory is not too selective, the Qantas Bangkok incident did not write-off the aircraft or kill anyone, un-like the Antarctic NZ DC-10 excursion, but let's not go there.

It doesn't make any sense to compare these 2 accidents (or you might say incidents, because no one died on QF 747 in Bangkok). Technology itself has kept updating and revolutionizing. One happened in 1979 and one happened in 1999. Both happened at different places with different use of technology. You're just trying to compare an apple and an orange.

You're just trying to bring Air New Zealand down because ANZ has brough Ansett to an end. It's a "revenge" attitude. PATHETIC ATTITUDE.

Anyway let's hope that those A320 which will be flying to Australia won't drop parts on Australian soil like the two ANZ 747's ZK-*** and ZK-***.

You're being too immature like Singapore_Air, begin doubting one's safety record with the incidents happened within a short period of time.

ANZ may have some technical problem, but this doesn't GUARANTEES that same thing won't happen to Qantas.

Let's wait until someday when we hear something negative about Qantas, and it would be very interesting to see your reaction.

It is ironic how for the past 10 years Ansett had been running strong until the ANZ take-over.

I doubted. Perhaps Ansett had some "hidden problems" before ANZ take over. ANZ just happened to be the scapegoat because these "hidden problems" pops-up one by one.
 
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3890
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:43 am

QFTJT - um, Ansett was a mess for those past ten years. The management under NewsCorp and TNT was at best poor. The airline's books were a disaster - why NZ ever bought them without proper due diligence is completely beyond me. At the end TNT and NewsCorp just wanted to extract as much of their original investment from the mess they had created. Perhaps one of the ex-ANers on this forum could explain the problems Ansett faced in the first half of the 90s in more detail.

As for the Bankok incident, don't forget that the cost of repairing the aircraft was greater than the book value of the aircraft. For all intents and purposes it should have been written off. However, as QF have never written off an aircraft, this would have adversly affected both their publicity, and more importantly, their insurance. Hence, they spent big bucks repairing/rebuilding the aircraft. There was quite an in depth article in Australian Aviation at the time, perhaps someone could fish it up...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:34 pm

TG992, your statement "QF lost the landing gear doors from a 767 last year because the pilot opened them at a too-high speed, causing them to shear off." is rubbish. The report, http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=373 states that During the approach, and while below the maximum limit speed of 270 Kts, the flight crew of the Boeing 767 aircraft lowered the landing gear to assist in speed reduction....
The statement that VH-OJH was more expensive to repair is also not true. Insurance costs are not just direct hull value, but lost revenue. Waiting for a replacement airframe from Seattle would have cost a lot more in lost revenue than repairing the aircraft.
 
Guest

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:41 pm

During the approach, and while below the maximum limit speed of 270 Kts, the flight crew of the Boeing 767 aircraft lowered the landing gear to assist in speed reduction....

Well, the investigation is done by Australia. What can you comment on this? It could be a totally different story if New Zealand or US holds the investigation.
 
AJ
Posts: 2295
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:54 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:37 pm

Actually there is no hiding it. Qantas Boeing 767-338ERs are fitted with a quick access recorder that immediately records any exceedances and cannot be erased by the flight crew. The ATSB has access to these records in the event of an incident or accident and they are incorporated into the reports, just like this one. Crews simply do not exceed limits as the fleet manager and chief pilot know about it before they hit the crew transport!
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:57 pm

From what I had understood earlier, the leased A320s were supposed to come from GECAS, meaning they would have CFMs. While the other ten were supposed to come direct from Airbus. Maybe some of those are being leased from them too.

But with the IAE maintenance contract, I understand Air NZ would be happy to operate both CFM and IAE, to keep up to date with them both and maximise the customer base. Personally, I'd like to see the IAE. They've grown on me, and I reckon look a bit cooler than the more clunky CFMs. I don't really know enough about the technicalities of each to comment on which is better though.

And for all those who have hijacked this topic (clearly itching to whinge about NZ) - you are VERY VERY boring. Shit happens. To ALL airlines at some point. They recognize a problem, they fix it. They get over it. So should you.
 
QFTJT
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2000 7:56 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:53 pm

Sorry form my immature comments
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:43 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:14 pm

The QF 744 in Bangkok was because the co-pilot had already hit the go-around button thing, when the captain said no and forced the plane down to land.
 
Kiwi dave
Posts: 893
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RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 7:43 pm

Will Air New Zealand order both engines types for there A320s?
 
B727-200
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 11:28 am

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:20 pm


The reason ANZ would choose A320's over B737NG's are numerous. These are range, uplift, comfort (although Boeing have done a good job with their interior cabin dimensions on the NG), the knowledge they would have gained from Ansett's A320 v' B737 operation, and a bloody big handshake from Airbus no doubt.

Boeing767-300, your referal to Ansett as a "lemon" and "failing anyhow" again highlights your lack of knowledge on the subject. True, Ansett were teetering on the edge, but it will always be ANZ's poor management and investment choice that pushed them over. Pushed the right way, ANZ would have been using AN as a cash-cow by now, like TNT and Newscorp before them.

B727-200.
 
boeing767-300
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:23 pm

RE: Air New Zealand Order

Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:57 pm

B727-200 You have said it for me... Pushed the right way, ANZ would have been using AN as a cash-cow by now, like TNT and Newscorp before them. If your not stating that Ansett had already been fleeced then you might want to explain what you did mean. As some said in an earlier post in this thread the poorest management from ANZ was surely not doing proper due diligence for if thay had they should have run a mile!!!

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