uprightNlocked
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Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:02 am

JetBlue In Chicago

Fri Oct 04, 2002 10:24 pm

Recently saw a generic JetBlue commercial in Chicago on a local broadcast channel during local news............

- - - - are they entering the Chicago Market?
 
prosa
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Fri Oct 04, 2002 10:32 pm

Nothing's been announced. B6 seems to be following a fairly cautious strategy when it comes to expansion, being mindful of the dangers that too-fast growth can pose, and in any event Chicago's not likely to be an easy market to enter what with all the competition. Even so, that commercial is hard to ignore.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Dazed767
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Fri Oct 04, 2002 10:53 pm

The beginning of this year, I heard a rumor that ORD (not MDW!) would possibly be one of their next destinations this year. Year is almost up, who knows...
 
scottysair
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:00 pm

Really?!?!? I think that will be hear about goes on with new flight from JFK-ORD by Jetblue soon as for this year. I am really hopefully so that will be entering into ORD soon. Well, later!!
 
Pilot1113
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:38 am

JetBlue has finished expanding for this year and possibly next year too. Neeleman is going to be increasing frequencies to/from their LGB focus city and also better connecting it to their route network.

In addition, he's also going to be building up FLL too and connecting that to their route network as well.

There is a very high probability that he will be announcing FLL-LGB in the near future.

- Neil Harrison
 
usairways85
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:42 am

sorry Pilot1113 but you kinda controdicted your self. first you said they probably won't expand for a while(this year and next), but then you go on to say that FLL-LGB will be announced sometime in the coming months and that FLL will see some more service.

I have heard that Jetblue will proably announce a few new destinations sometime next year like around the spring time, but one never knows.
 
scottysair
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:21 am

USAirways85,

What cities will be announce a new destinations cities by sometime as for near year?? And can you please tell me about goes on as for Jetblue want get expands as for more new nonstop near of the future. Just tell us about exactly were doing as for the passengers is doing well. Well, later!!

Regards,

Scott
 
usairways85
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:32 am

sorry i havent heard any specific routes, besides FLL-LGB which as been talked about for a while now. all i've heard so far is that we will probably see some new cities by spring of next year.
 
Pilot1113
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:30 am

>>sorry Pilot1113 but you kinda controdicted your self.

I meant to say "adding new cities". I'm operating on about 2 hours of sleep in the past 72 hours, so just bear with me here.

- Neil Harrison
 
usairways85
Posts: 3551
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:46 am

oh ok, no problem...i know how ya feel, recently i went 48 hrs with one hr of sleep
 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:50 pm

But how will JetBlue manouver to get ORD slots
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:59 pm

I bet Grand Rapids will be served by Jetblue later than sooner... probably 2009 at the latest, 2006 at the earliest.

 
md80spirit
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 4:15 pm

Spirit has been waiting for more slots in ord, and they have been promised. Unless jetblue uses ord for more than ,chi town should be put on the back burner untill they dig in out west and show southwest they can go head to head.
 
cloudy
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:58 pm

Why ORD? I thought Neelman has an aversion for congested airports- thats why he chose JFK over LGA or Newark. Midway may be a better bet.

I also wouldn't discount other possibilities -

1.Gary - poor road access, poor bet.
2.Rockford - good dark horse candidat - good facilities. Allot of the population in the western subburbs is close to Rockford and far away from the other airports. It is also close to Madison, WI. Rockford combined with Madison and the farther west Chicago suburbs is a large underserved market.
3. Milwaukee. A large city in its own right, it is reasonably close to the Northern suburbs. But, as with Rockford, it is far away enough to deter Chicago business travelers. Also, it is a bit of a risk to be compared to Midwest Express service.

If I were them, I'd choose Midway. Or Rockford if no gates/etc. were available in Midway. But I don't know what Neelman knows...
 
Jeff G
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:02 pm

But how will JetBlue manouver to get ORD slots

Slots are going away at ORD. Gates are another matter.

chi town should be put on the back burner untill they dig in out west and show southwest they can go head to head

That was never the intention. The OAK-LGB shuttle was only to consume slots, not try to prove anything vs. LUV.

Midway may be a better bet.

Midway is a very bad idea for operational reasons. You can't physically get a fully loaded and gassed A320 out of there and take it to the West Coast. You have to block seat rows and effectively turn the airplane into a 120 seat plane, and what's the point of that? The longest available landing distance is about 6000 feet. With a little slush or standing water on the runway, an A320 at max landing weight couldn't land at all, and would have to divert. Not much point in that either. If Chicago happens, it won't be Midway.
 
CcrlR
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:05 am

There is congestion at MDW now. There was a article in the paper about the congestion at MDW and they have delays now. Also is the gate situatuon with SWA and ATA making all these new flights. Also from the other airlines expanding service has made it congested.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 12:20 am

Slots are going away at ORD. Gates are another matter.

I thought slots already went away at ORD back in July, IIRC.

LoneStarMike

 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 1:08 pm

now that i think about it, how bout terminal 5 gates M1-M5 are now domestic flights only spirit used em before they moved to terminal 3 north american/el al and usa 3000 use em now with ua and aa
 
cloudy
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 1:44 pm

Jeff G -

I don't doubt ya when you say A320 opperations would be a problem in Midway. Just a couple non-rhetorical questions...

How come SWA is doing new 737 non-stops to the west coast, though? And what about ATA's 737-800's? Is the 737 that different performance wise from the A320 or are they accepting payload limitations of some sort?

Didn't know Midway was getting that congested. Perhaps Gary or Rockford or Milwaukee are the only ways out of that problem....
 
sllevin
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 2:07 pm

Regarding performance, ATA manages to get fully pax'd 757's with enough fuel to get to SFO.... is the 320's performance really that much worse?

Steve
 
Jeff G
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 3:24 pm

A couple of points. JetBlue's aircraft carry more pax than SWA's airplanes (either 25 or 40 more, depending on the 737 model), both in terms of capacity and system load factor. I'm not sure what performance numbers they use at SWA for longer hauls, but they may be blocking seats as well. As a guesstimate, I figure that an A320 could carry about 120 pax plus bags out of MDW before being performance limited on takeoff. For a 122 seat airplane (or a 137 seat airplane only 70% full) it's not a big deal, but it is for a 162 seat plane that's often sold to capacity. The runways are just too short.

The B-757 is has a higher power-to-weight ratio than the A320, so it's not as performance limited on takeoff. It may well be able to haul a full load out of MDW, but it's also more expensive to operate.

MDW might be adequate for A320 short hauls, but if the plan is to connect Chicago to both JFK and LGB, which seems likely, it's not an adequate field.

Since JetBlue is not committed to one particular airport, it only makes sense to pick one with the right location and the right operational facilities. While that doesn't necessarily mean ORD, it does leave out MDW.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 3:55 pm

I'm not sure if B6 flying to Chicago is a good idea.

This is because I have doubts B6 can compete against both UA and AA on the ORD-LGA flights; both UA and AA have a large number of flights between ORD and LGA per day. B6's potential JFK-ORD service might not cater well to the people living in New York City, since LGA is a lot closer to Manhattan than JFK.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Sun Oct 06, 2002 4:22 pm

"now that i think about it, how bout terminal 5 gates M1-M5 are now domestic flights only spirit used em before they moved to terminal 3 north american/el al and usa 3000 use em now with ua and aa"

Ok what the???????? First of all Spirit never went to Terminal 3.... I was in T-5 last week and they are still there... Ive seen North American park at T-3 and T-5....as it isnt even a International flight. USA3000, UA, AA and other foreign carriers most notably Air Canada and Mexicana will use 1-5..
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: LOT-767-300ER

Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:37 am

I too have seen NK parked at T3 lately.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:11 am

So have I,

But that dosent mean they moved there.

AFAIK they park at T-5 deplane pax and park over at T-3 for outgoing flights. From what ive heard is that they do this to let Apple Vacations use those gates when they fly in from International flights.

Its the same deal with Iberia at T-3 and LH at T-1
 
mlsrar
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:27 am

3. Milwaukee. A large city in its own right, it is reasonably close to the Northern suburbs. But, as with Rockford, it is far away enough to deter Chicago business travelers. Also, it is a bit of a risk to be compared to Midwest Express service.

In spite of financial woes which seem to be besetting most full-service carriers, YX has done a fantastic job of wooing J-travelers up to MKE for a while now; it was a cornerstone of their business model from day one to cater to business travelers. The only obstacle for the northwest suburbs (where a majority of the business lay, outside of downtown), is the &*( $@$# Illinois Tollway...pay to get in, pay to get out!

Ok what the???????? First of all Spirit never went to Terminal 3.... I was in T-5 last week and they are still there... Ive seen North American park at T-3 and T-5....as it isnt even a International flight. USA3000, UA, AA and other foreign carriers most notably Air Canada and Mexicana will use 1-5..

Agreed. on that one.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:00 am

" is the &*( $@$# Illinois Tollway...pay to get in, pay to get out!"

Tell me about it. I live right next to the DAMN *$)(@*)($*@)(@$ in Schaumburg.

Mlsrar: yep its a common thing to free up the gates at T-5 and move down to T-1 and T-3 and board there since the outgoing flights dont clear customs.

Oh Im just praying here that LOT will park at T-1 when it fully joins STAR Alliance.

With that the proof is that the Spirit, El Al/North American counters are at T-5 so that is where they are. Apple Vacations occupies the far left counters of T-3 so that is where they are based at. The only reason they park at T-5 is to deplane from international flights.
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:20 am

...Traffic and Weather together on the '8s. "Outbound Stevenson's packed, Kennedy and Ryan as well...79 minutes, downtown to O'Hare..."

(I'm paraphrasing, but not hyperbolizing about the time it takes!)

Less time to go through the junction and get to MKE!
(Geographical reference to the misguided pasta of Chicago's congestion on their roads, not a rip on penny-heads)

Anyway, throwing my $.02 on the pile, I think that we'll be seeing the Blue 320's in MKE, not ORD. Let distances not be deceiving as LGB and ONT can, depending on traffic have quite a chronological impact on one's commute to the greater Los Angeles area...

Regards,

Michael
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 1:28 am

LOT they moved to t3 drive around the little drive for t-1 to t3 right after the delta sign there is a spirit sign i flew naa/el al from jfk they parked at m5 spirit is in concourse l there is a thing on spirit.com saying they switched terminals m1-m5 uses a separate baggage claim that says DOMESTIC FLIGHTS ONLY
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:26 am

"LOT they moved to t3 drive around the little drive for t-1 to t3 right after the delta sign there is a spirit sign i flew naa/el al from jfk they parked at m5 spirit is in concourse "

Try forming sentences that make sense lol..

"For customers traveling to and from Chicago effective August 26th 2002 Spirit Airlines is moving from the Chicago O'Hare International Terminal to the Domestic Terminal 3 Concourse L. "

Ok my bad on Spirit...they just moved. I did however see some of their MD aircraft still parked there so i figured they didnt move.
 
AASTEW
Posts: 418
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:37 am

I thought ATA flew loaded L1011's into MDW some time ago. Those planes are much ever than an A320. Someone from ATA please inform us!

I believe the A320 would have no problem operating out of MDW.

 
Jeff G
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:51 am

I thought ATA flew loaded L1011's into MDW some time ago. Those planes are much ever than an A320. I believe the A320 would have no problem operating out of MDW.

L1011's have three engines, so engine out performance isn't as critical as for a two engine airplane. The actual weight has little to do with it. I'm using actual performance figures, not third hand recollections or back of the envelope calculations. The A320 can't operate out of MDW without substantial weight restrictions.
 
besttravel
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:42 am

NK is officially operating out of T3 at ORD. No more T5!!!!
Also, JetBlue would be crazy to launch JFK-CHI service; the NYC-CHI market is saturated with hourly UA/AA flights. Best option for them would to be to stick with the leisure markets and keep up their great service. Their target market seems to be the bright-eyed vacationer and the thrifty, energetic businessperson. Not the tired-eyed, overworked businessperson who flies once-per-week back and forth between ORD and LGA and demands upgrades every flight they are on. Keep up the good work B6!!!
 
CactusA319
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:49 am


ATA never flew L1011's to MDW. At least not regular pax flights. The gates at the old terminal couldn't handle anything bigger than a 757 (and only a few of the gates could handle that aircraft.)

Jeff G. is right on with the A320 perfomance characteristics. Back when America West flew A320's on the MDW-LAS run, there were times we would have to limit the amount of passengers due to weight restrictions, especially during the summer months. And this was just to LAS! A maxed out A319 sometimes would barely make it out of there.

I think the 737NG's ATA and SW use have a little better takeoff performance for the west coast routes than the A320 does. Part of the reason ATA ordered 738's with blended winglets was because of their enhanced performance on short fields like MDW's.

 
ScottB
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RE: JetBlue In Chicago

Tue Oct 08, 2002 9:08 am

I imagine that there was likely some discussion between WN and Boeing while the 737NG (and specifically the -700, as WN was the launch customer) was under development; you'd figure that one item on Southwest's wish list would be that its -700's could operate fully-loaded from some of the shorter fields they use (like MDW or HOU) to both coasts. While short-haul has been their historical market niche, I certainly believe that long-haul flights have been in their planning for "some time down the road."

The 757 certainly wouldn't have any problems at MDW given the proliferation of 757's at SNA (with its 5,700 ft runway) operating to ATL, PIT, etc. The 757 is designed for ecellent short-field performance, though.

Gates at MDW are hard to come by these days and won't be much more plentiful until the new terminal is completed; even then, I think WN and TZ have first dibs on most of the gates (particularly WN, since they committed to a long-term lease in order to get the project underway). And do they really want to compete with two established low-fare carriers at MDW?