Flying-Tiger
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Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:19 pm

Rumours suggest that Lufthansa is currently preparing "Lufthansa Regional" which would basically include Augsburg Airways and Contact Air as Turboprop operators and Eurowings and Lufthansa City Line as jet operators. Eurowings is likely to drop their livery in the coming few years in favour of Lufthansa colors and won´t order a regional jet by itself but will instead lease them from Lufthansa (´s new order). Thus the rumor "EMB-170 for EW" can be put into the trash can for now as we really don´t know how LH will decide (see my topic: Lufthansa FD 728 - again on the agenda)

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
SQ325
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:41 pm

This rumor exists since ages and nothing happened. i hardly doubt anything will happen in that direction. All mentioned carrieres are very different in their policy. Maybe the will be a new structure in Team Lufthansa but i hardly doubt that CLH and IQ will work under one flag with the same salary contract!
This would lead to an industrial action!
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:53 pm

I don´t think Cirrus would leave Team LH/LH Regional.

- they´ve joined only two years ago and increased their loads tremendously => they don´t want to leave
- other than IQ and KI they operate profitably => LH wouldn´t want them to leave

If this thing about EW becoming all jet and giving their ATRs to KI is correct, where do their F50s go? They are owned by LH and we´re not exactly seeing a sell-market, are we?
On the other hand, C9 want to grow, and LH want them to - which would create even more of a win-win situation, due to the fact they´re making money for both themselves and LH. Additionally, C9 want to concentrate on the DH8 in the future (4 out of their 7 planes are DH8s).

So, I´m inclined to say, things are more and more pointing to the scenario I pieced together from different "rumour-kitchens" (  Smile/happy/getting dizzy ) in this
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/936141
thread - namely that C9 grows on IQ´s DH8s, unprofitable IQ hope to return into the black by shrinking through KI´s F50 while KI get EW´s ATRs which would give them more flexibility in reacting to ad-hoc changes in passenger demand.

In any case, the next few months are sure going to be VERY interesting.

Daniel Smile
 
vfw614
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:53 pm

The scenario you describe summarizes what Eurowings CEO Weitholz has suggested in an Aviation Daily interview in September. The interesting part is the sacrifice of the Eurowings brand which he described as a likely development within the next 2-3 years. Also the fact that the new 70seater will not be ordered by EW, but by LH and leased from them by EW (like the CRJ200s) is notable, but not entirely surprising. However, Weitholz did not mention the creation of a "Lufthansa Regional" operation; I think he was merely referring to branding issues.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Wed Oct 09, 2002 10:39 pm

well, i do not think that all these regional airlines will be "merged" into one bigger company such as Lufthansa Regional. the thing, Lufthansa CityLine has the highest operating costs of those, mainly due higher wages compared to EW and the teamLH members.
so to grow and return a profit, the least thing LH wants is increased pilot wages at EW and the other carriers, and the CityLine will certainly not give in to decrease theirs. they just got a new contract with a major increase in salaries.
so all those airlines won´t operate under one roof, but i am pretty sure that there will be some board coordinating all these airlines. i could very well imagine that there is somekind of regional concept in the pipeline to smoothen things between and to increase productiviy and cooperation between all these regional partners.

however, i do think that it might very likely that KI and IQ will combined in the near future. KI could survive without Lufthansa (they operate exclusively on the behalf of LH) and almost so does IQ.
if it weren´t for LH, both airlines would be dead. so it might make sense to combine both to streamline operations, who knows.

about C9, they have certainly benefitted a lot from teamLH and LH benefits from them as well, but I once heard that cooperation between LH and C9 wouldn´t be that smooth. in addition, C9 has higher costs than the other teamLH members which is a problem and LH does not like that. they have too many types for such a small fleet.

and the thing about EW wearing LH colors doesn´t surprise me at all. i think that´s going to be bad for CLH than have higher costs than EW and so LH would like to have EW expand its operations. the thing is, when EW starts to wear LH colors, the will be virtually be no difference between EW and CLH, since both will than look like Lufthansa, and i assume that is a major advantage for Lufthansa CityLine.

ok, take care
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
ILS25R
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:22 am

Sorry, but it is the same in here like "FD 728..."
Never heard of that in the company !!!
CLH and EW as one ? I don't think so.

Please tell me where you got that.


BRgds ILS
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:34 am

Suppose there is a misunderstanding here: I never wrote the word "merger" which some seem to assume. As far as I understand it will be or less mainly a rebranding and refocusing exercice: "Lufthansa Regional" will be the trade name for the four carriers mentioned above and everybody gets its own sticker like "operated by Eurowings", "operated by Lufthansa CityLine", "operated by Contact Air" and "operated by Augsburg Airways" but will remain seperate carriers.

Meanwhile a fleet shuffeling will take place as already mentioned several times and the individual carrier will (re-)focus on their strong holds:
* Lufthansa CityLine MUC, STR, FRA, HAM
* Eurowings HAJ, DUS, LEJ,
* Contact Air STR
* Augsburg Airways HAM

Plus all the other small bases they have spread all over Germany. C9 (Cirrus) could be incorporated, too, but I doubt that they will take part from the very beginning.

Please note that these are rumours (That´s why the "?" is in the title) and nothing confirmed.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:42 pm

i apologize for a confusing line in my first post:

it should read "KI could not survive without Lufthansa (they operate exclusively on the behalf of LH) and almost so could not IQ" in the 2nd paragraph.

just got a headache by reading this post again, i forgot so many words. sorry about that.

---

but on the topic again. i could very well imagine such a brand as Lufthansa Regional as an operating umbrella, but i really don´t think they would give up on the CityLine brand as they did with Condor/Thomas Cook. at least i hope so.

cheers
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Thu Oct 10, 2002 9:36 pm

>>> i really don´t think they would give up on the CityLine brand as they did with Condor/Thomas Cook.

I hope you´re right, but I don´t think so:

Condor was a well established, venerable, traditional widely known brand. CityLine, in contrast, is only ten years old and adapted more and more to LH mainline. First they dropped their own logo, and nowadays it doesn´t even say CityLine on the plane anymore. I doubt a normal passenger would perceive a CL ARJ or CRJ as anything else than a slightly smaller otherwise normal LH plane.

Daniel Smile


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johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa Regional In The Pipeline?

Fri Oct 11, 2002 1:06 am

airsicknessbag,

you are absolutely right, i obviously didn´t find the right words again.
i´m aware that there is no CityLine brand much visible to the customer, no CityLine titles on the fuselage. i should have pointed that out correctly in the last post.
what i wanted to say is i really don´t see Lufthansa paint Lufthansa Regional on some if its Lufthansa aircraft (although its Lufthansa CityLine, of course) since that would make them something of lesser value, if you get what i mean.
Lufthansa Regional would be a very wise movie for KI/IQ/C9 and possibly EW as well, but i would think it would hurt if they paint Regional on the CityLine aircraft.
the frequent flyer might conceive Lufthansa Regional as something inferior to CityLine.

ok, so we do think and hope the same, i see.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.