odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Sun Oct 20, 2002 11:55 pm

While I was just looking at Heathrow's database, I came across MH 9 at London departing to Kuala Lumpur and it was a B777, 9M-MRD. The thing is, MH 9 operates from Zurich into Kuala Lumpur and does not fly into London at all. It departed London last Friday, October 18 at 2:43 pm for Kuala Lumpur. perhaps a mistake in the airport database? I had seen this MH 9 operated out of LHR twice before! Any explaination to that? Or anybody in Heathrow saw the B777? (If I am not misktaen, MAS had never operated a B777 service into Heathrow before, so if you see one, it may well be the MH 9)

Regards.
 
bapilot2b
Posts: 891
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 7:42 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:05 am

Just checked gere for you....

http://www.lhr-lgw.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

and results show..........

Operator: Malaysian A/L System (MH/MAS "Malaysian")

MH0001 To Kuala Lumpur, Malay. 9M-MPH 744 18/10/2002 22:30
MH0003 To Kuala Lumpur, Malay. 9M-MPL 744 18/10/2002 15:07
MH0009 To Kuala Lumpur, Malay. 9M-MRD 777 18/10/2002 14:43

Could be an expantion on capacity? or if there is 3 744's daily maybe there were not enough bookings at both Zurich and London so instead they did the most economical thing and shove PAX at LHR and ZRH onto one 777?

Hope this helps.

Yours Sincerely,
Jason Nicholls
Jason Nicholls - v1images
 
Triple Seven
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2000 10:04 pm

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:21 am

What are the days that MH operates triple daily flights and what days double?

- Triple Seven
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:35 am

I definitely hope what Jason said is not true but who knows... I've heard rumours that MH is *sometimes* struggling to fill up the third flight... However I do not know if the source of rumour was reliable or not...

ZRH should be (might not?) doing good but I am worried that yields are low or even there is not enough passengers and that the Y is not even full unlike the CDG flight for example. I tried to ask MH for ZRH-KUL flight and I was told F and C were available, only a few were occupied and that in Y there are lots of seats left... Not what I expected to hear. Normally if you ask for CDG flight or sometimes LHR ones, they would say Y is full or almost full or waiting list closed!!!!!!! But not the case with ZRH .....

I wish MH all the best....
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:41 am

If I'm not mistaken ZRH has still one of the highest MAS yiels worldwide (not that much less than LHR yield).

I thing it would be logical if MH9 had a bad load to fill it in LHR and let if fly to pick the remaining pax at ZRH to fill a plane. There is anyway a 8hrs layover at ZRH but when MH9 left LHR around 14:43 they had some delay in leaving ZRH for KUL.

Cheers
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:56 am

MAS only operates MH 7/8 (the third flight) on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays. On Mondays, Thursdays and Fridays, MAS only operate twice daily to Kuala Lumpur as MH 2 and MH 4. Hence, they are not shoving both ZRH and LHR passengers into one flight.

Plus, if I am not mistaken, MAS have higher loads on the night flights, i.e. MH 1 or MH 7 compared to MH 3 since most Australia bound passengers prefer the night flight. MH 3 are mostly catered for people traveling to Kuala Lumpur or with onwards connection to other Asian cities or SYD/MEL only. If I am not mistaken, it's only in November last year when they merge MH 7 and MH 1 together due to excess capacity in London after the Sept. 11 tragedy. After that, I don't recall them doing so.

LHR and CDG are probably doing pretty well for MAS, so much so that MAS wanted to increase their flights to London to 3 times daily and daily flights for Paris. I think Amsterdam is doing pretty well for MAS as well, thanks to KLM. MAS might have a bit of excess capacity at Frankfurt though. I have no idea how Zurich/Rome/Vienna/Manchester is doing, but as from what I heard, Zurich probably have quite a lot of premium passengers.

Bapilot2b: That's where I gather my information.

regards.
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:06 am

Swissgabe: You beat me to it on the Zurich! If Zurich have pretty high yields, I am just wondering why MAS wanted to suspend Zurich last year? I know there are plans to make Zurich 5 weekly flights, but of course, this did not materialized. Any MAS' news at Zurich lately?

It left Heathrow at 2:43 pm, which probably means, if they are flying it to London, it will probably fly ZRH-LHR-KUL, but this just doesn't make sense! Even if there's any technical error that happened to MH 9, it will probably not fly into LHR for it, same goes for weather conditions etc. And I don't think MAS flights ex-LHR that day was that overbooked either. Are they actually allowed to do that if their flight was overbooked ex-LHR? Don't they need to apply to the CAA for extra rights?

Still puzzled,
OdiE
 
bapilot2b
Posts: 891
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 7:42 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:23 am

I have heard that PAX figures for MH into MAN are very good! Any chance you could tell from my picture if its a full load? :P


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Nicholls



Airbus Lover : What I said was only my assumption, but its the only logical thing I can think to why it would operate ZRH-LHR-KUL.

Yours Sincerely,
Jason Nicholls
Jason Nicholls - v1images
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR

Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:50 am

Are we talking about todays flight? Todays was op by 9M-MRA.

Tom
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 6:20 am

Bapilot2b: The loads from Manchester to Kuala Lumpur are good in the Economy Class only I believe. There aren't many premium passengers on that route, not as much as London. I flew KUL-MAN on September 23, 2002 and the Economy Class was filled to the brim, so much so that they overbooked and bunked me up to Business Class. Business was like about 40% full, excluding those people who got bunked up, and I don't think there will be much passengers in First! Sometimes, Business Class is fully booked, but First is always available. My trip report will follow as soon as I can hook my laptop to the internet.

Avion: You sure today's flight was operated by 9M-MRA? We are talking about the flight on Friday, October 18. Weird, there's a flight from Zurich to Kuala Lumpur today as well, operated as MH 9.

Regards.
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:42 pm

Jason, I kno it is your assumption and I have nothing against it... I just hope that it is not the case but who knows, you might be right or it might be a problem of the other party(ies)...

Well I have not much info on the ZRH route, what I heard was not that reliable, I believe. I just hope everything is doing good for them..

Anyone can shed some more light on this matter?

Thanks
Airbus Lover
 
swissgabe
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:14 pm

OdiE
High yield doesn't say you are making money. ZRH has high costs as well and if your costs are higher than the revenue/yield you make loss.

The Malaysian Government might be even more interested flying into ZRH than MAS it self. Swiss Tourist Arrivals doubled from 2000 to 2001 and in 2002 it could even be better.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:57 pm

Swissgabe: Could it be that Swizerland is not in the EU is part of the reason of the high cost? Indeed that the Malaysian Government play a big role in MAS' network development, since they are bringing in tourist money by sacrificing MAS accounts. I still don't understand why they are still serving Buenos Aires, and I believe they are not making much out of it as well. I don't think there's huge market for South American tourist to Malaysia. Spanish and the Scandinavians have pretty huge tourist arrivals in Malaysia, sometimes even higher than Italians, Austrians etc. and yet, there aren't any direct flights between these cities.

Regards.
 
swissgabe
Posts: 5147
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 4:57 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Mon Oct 21, 2002 10:40 pm

OdiE
I think the main reason are the high costs of living, the office rent and staff salaries. I know, LHR for example is also very high but if you rent an office for around 18 flights or for only 4 (or now 3) the costs are much higher. Also handling charges, catering etc are higher.

Well, think MAS still wants to serve all continents but I remember that flights between South Africa and EZE had a pretty good load earlier but I don't know if they make money. But for pretty sure, if they would make a lot of loss they would cut it down and they would not have started services again from KUL to EZE.

Another thing we talked about a few month ago regarding MAS flights to New York. I talked to a GVA Airport guy around 3 weeks ago and he told me that they had a lot of talks with MAS for flights from KUL into GVA and a CONTINUATION to New York (KUL-GVA-EWR/JFK vv) but as we both now, this never happened and I don't think that they have in KUL such plans at the moment.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
odie
Posts: 1581
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 8:55 am

RE: MAS B777 At London-LHR?

Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:58 am

Swissgabe,
MAS is planning to double its frequency to New York in the next 2 years. I spoke to the in-flight supervisor once and he told me that these new flights will be via Europe, with Stockholm, Berlin and Copenhagen as the best candidate cites. Munich too had been enticing MAS to inaugurate a KUL-MUC-JFK/EWR flights, but of course this did not happened after MAS pulled out of MUC. MAS is planning to inaugurate flights to Stockholm as well, within the next 2 years, so maybe they are planning a KUL-ARN-EWR/JFK flight, but I think KUL-GVA-EWR/JFK would be better? The only perk if MAS serve JFK from ARN is that MAS will be the only carrier to fly between JFK and ARN since SAS only serve EWR.

How about a KUL-ZRH-EWR/JFK flight? Is this viable? As far as I know, the Malaysian and Swiss Government have very liberal air pacts and I think MAS have fifth freedom rights at either ZRH or GVA.

Last time, we were able to book a flight from UK to Malaysia using Swissair, but now that Swiss had taken over, we were unable to do so, albeit Swiss code-shares with MAS on the ZRH-KUL route. Will Swiss fly into KUL anytime soon?

Regards.