Boeing757/767
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United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:34 am

Here's the news release:

United Announces Additional Cost-Cutting Initiatives
Wednesday October 23, 4:04 pm ET
Actions to Improve Profitability By $120 Million Annually


CHICAGO, Oct. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- As part of the implementation of the updated business plan submitted to the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB) last night, United Airlines (NYSE: UAL - News) today announced this week's second round of cost-cutting measures that are expected to improve profitability by approximately $120 million annually. In response to current market conditions, the carrier will be closing four international stations and better matching capacity with demand by shifting to smaller aircraft in several markets. In combination, the U.S. domestic and international cost- cutting initiatives announced this week are expected to improve the carrier's profitability by approximately $220 million annually.


Beginning Jan. 7, 2003, United will close stations in Caracas, Venezuela; Santiago, Chile; and Dusseldorf, Germany. On January 22, 2003, United will close its station in Milan, Italy. The closings will affect 69 employees in Caracas, 110 in Santiago, 46 in Milan and four in Dusseldorf.

The last flights will depart Dusseldorf, Caracas and Santiago on January 6, 2003, and will depart Milan on January 21, 2003. Customers already booked for travel beyond the last date of service will be offered reaccommodation on other carriers.

"Closing a station is always an extremely difficult decision to make, but given the unprecedented challenges the global airline industry faces, these closings are an essential and prudent course of action," said Glenn Tilton, United's chairman, president and chief executive officer. "These measures are unfortunately necessary given the continued deterioration of profitability in these four international markets. We regret the necessity of making these decisions because of the impact it will have on our customers, employees, their families and their countries," Tilton continued.

"United will work closely with employees affected by these measures. Our goal is to be as helpful as we can be during this extremely difficult time for everyone," said Tilton.

"These cuts come as a result of careful analysis of the stations' profitability for the last several years," said Graham Atkinson, United's senior vice president - International. "Results from all four cities fall well below United's profitability hurdles."

While the company regrets today's announcement, it remains strongly committed to its customers in the European and Latin America regions. United will continue to serve the needs of its customers to these affected locations in Europe and Latin America through its Star Alliance partners, Lufthansa and Varig.

In addition, the company will also better match capacity to demand by downgauging the equipment it uses in several markets. The company will fly Boeing 767 aircraft instead of Boeing 777 aircraft in the Paris-Washington Dulles, Paris-San Francisco and Miami-Buenos Aires markets. United will also replace Boeing 747s with Boeing 777s on the flowing routes: Osaka-San Francisco, United's second Seoul-Tokyo flight and the carrier's second daily Tokyo-Chicago flight. These downgauges allow the company to more efficiently operate these flights by using equipment that adequately meets the demand.

Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
Guest

RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:38 am

Too bad, South American market is shrinking......
 
ba319-131
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:39 am

Nasty blow for those airports.

Lets hope given time UA makes a recovery and may re-install service to those cities.

Rgds

BA319-131
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johnnybgoode
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:42 am

they are cutting DUS???
any chance of keeping this flight alive or if LH is going to take that over???

daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:47 am

No surprises. The Miami-Santiago route depends heavily on O&D traffic and a very limited number of connections, given that United's Miami operation is not a full fledged hub. The Washington-Milan route also should come as no surprise along with Washington-Dusseldorf. These are not primary European markets (Milan is a major business and industrial center, but the demand is clearly not there for United), and the political turmoil in Venezuela renders the market less than desirable. The Miami-Buenos Aires downgrade is also quite understandable and a 767-300 is a perfectly fine aircraft for this route.

United is teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, largely due to the ineffectiveness of its former CEO and the airline's unions who got some of the highest wages in exchange for nearly ruining their employer. Other miscalculations include the failed attempt to buy US Airways, which was a waste of time and money. The 9/11 aftermath and the economy are not at the root cause of United's problems.

 
jtamu97
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:29 am

Yep, sad to see that happening..Perhaps CO can pick up some of those routes out of IAH as the airport just keeps getting bigger!!
Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
 
chepos
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:44 am

Im surprised to see United close down its Santiago and Caracas stations altogether. The CCS -MIA route has suffered because of the political and ecnomic turmoil in Venezuela and at the same time United just offers a daily flight which gives it a minor presence in the market. I had understood the MIA-SCL route was doing prety well- but I guess I was wrong (this will virtually give one world partners (LA and AA) a monolopy on the Mia-SCL route.) Right now I would not be surprised to see Ual drop the MIA-EZE route.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:25 am

It is too bad to see them cut the MIA routes, but they do remain dedicated to the Miami market.

Caracas has obviously been suffering alot lately, and the fact that UA offered only one daily did hurt them.

Santiago de Chile, as stated, is very O&D dependent. The market between the United States and Chile outside of South Florida is virtually zero. I would not be surprised to see AA add a second frequency (4 or 5x a week).

At least Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Rio de Janeiro, and Sao Paulo continue. There have also been rumours lately that they want to return to MIA-LIM and MIA-MEX.
a.
 
FutureFO
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:20 am

They are also to stop flying BOS-LHR on 26 Oct. Also it is amazing that we are cutting MXP service that has been a hard flight to Non-Rev on lately it has been a pretty full route as of late. DUS I am suprised to it was held onto this long.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
usairways85
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:52 am

So now what are they going to do with the extra 777's and 747's? It seems like they have been continualously downgrading the 744 flts to 777's or 767's.

at little O/T
do you think there is any possibility that UA might convert some of their extra 744 to 744F and restart their dedicated cargo operation?
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:07 am

Most of the moves make sense to me. As UA looks at it ops, it needs to get rid of routes that aren't holding their own. I wonder if someone in UA knows what the loads on these routes were pre 9/11 especially the ORD-DUS, IAD-MXP, and the SA routes. I think the folks at UA looked at the books for these routes and decided that these routes held little chance of becoming profitable in the near future, therefore it was best to just drop these routes before the became too costly to keep.

However, cuting routes out of MIA to SA while adding routes from IAD to SA just has me a little confused. Any thoughts on this one. I thought MIA had a larger latin community than IAD, but maybe I am wrong.

I also think that reducing the capacity on some of these routes may help improve finacial results. Fewer seats means higher fares if the same number of people travel the route, as more people are competing for available seats on a per available seat basis. This most likely results in more people buying Y, B, M and H fares. Of course that is just my thoughts.

MSY-MSP
 
BA
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:12 am

However, cuting routes out of MIA to SA while adding routes from IAD to SA just has me a little confused. Any thoughts on this one. I thought MIA had a larger latin community than IAD, but maybe I am wrong.

MIA is a much larger South American market than IAD. However, IAD has lots of connection opportunities, while MIA does not.

So IAD actually makes a lot of sense.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MAH4546
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:15 am

They are not cutting from MIA and adding to IAD. They cut form JFK and will add those to IAD. MIA-SCL and MIA-CCS service is not going to IAD because IAD does not have the infastructure to support it, and neither does ORD. MIA still has GIG, GRU, EZE, and MVD.
a.
 
dia77
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:46 am

Infrastructure to support? hmmm
 
MAH4546
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:50 am

I should have said demographics, sorry.
a.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 10:58 am

What a shame...

Too bad UA wouldn't be able to follow in the footsteps of other carriers and start placing re-configured 767-200 and 757 aircraft on these routes...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
johnboy
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:57 pm

United will continue to serve the needs of its customers to these affected locations in Europe and Latin America through its Star Alliance partners, Lufthansa and Varig.



So, if I'm going to CCS, should I book RG via GRU or LH via FRA?  Big grin
 
MAH4546
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:28 pm

So, if I'm going to CCS, should I book RG via GRU or LH via FRA?

To go to CCS, book MX via MEX.

To go to SCL, book RG or LH via EZE (not GRU).

Mexicana has been planning on launching MIA-CCS in 2003. It will undoubtly have a UA codeshare. However, with the recent turmoil in Venezuela, those plans are likely on hold.
a.
 
jrlander
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:18 am

"Santiago de Chile, as stated, is very O&D dependent. The market between the United States and Chile outside of South Florida is virtually zero. I would not be surprised to see AA add a second frequency (4 or 5x a week)."

Delta seems to make an ATL-SCL work. Even though they are cutting Rio de Janeiro and Buenos Aires, they are keeping the daily service to Santiago. So there must be some demand away from Southern Florida.


 
flyguy1
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:25 am

I doubt the new IAD South American flights will work. If UA can't make money operating these services from JFK, MIA, why would IAD work any better? Feed from the UA hub, just does not seem enough. Look at DL, they are cutting EZE, and SCL from ATL. DL Has a much larger feed there, still unable to make these flights work.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Rai
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:26 am

Delta seems to make an ATL-SCL work.

It works because of cargo loads, which are outstanding. They alone make the flight profitable. Passenger loads suck.
 
airblue
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:33 am

If they drop Milan MXP that's mean they cut IAD-MXP and plus the new service announced last summer ORD-MXP won't start next week??

So after AA, TW (before they were bought by AA), NW and UA dropped MXP, CO to EWR is the only American carriers to Milan (except DL, but they are partner with AZ, so now they have almost the monopoly on the North Italy- US routes)..... very sad Sad
 
Sabena332
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:49 am

they are cutting DUS???
any chance of keeping this flight alive or if LH is going to take that over???


I do not think that LH will take over the flight to IAD, look what happened to LH`s flight to EWR, they switched from the 340 to a BBJ because there are not enough passengers to fill up a big Airbus. I think also that the airport administration do not mind that UA quit the flight, the main thing for them is that there are 30 daily flights between DUS and PMI.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:03 am

I think the SkyTeam alliance may at least be part to blame for the failure of UA's MXP flight. Remember this past spring, DL launched ATL-MXP along with the existing JFK-MXP. The ATL-MXP flight has done well (the AZ codeshare definitely helps) especially in these difficult conditions.

It would be nice to see DL take advantage of UA's weakness and maybe launch CVG-MXP...it could work. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if DL is really in a position to launch new routes. Plus, the retirement of the MD11's doesn't leave DL with a lot of widebodies to play with.
 
JumboClassic
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:15 am

Word is that almost half of UA 744s are in the desert already. Can someone confirm this?

JC
 
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DaV
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:42 am

It's true that Skyteam member AZ and DL can only take advantage UA's retirement from US-Italy market, but why don't NW and CO boost up that market a bit? I mean, SFO and LAX are both NW hubs and AZ has shut both flight down. The demand was there, but AZ had great financial trouble and now they don't have enough aircraft to reopen that routes. There are even more reason for a DTW-MXP flight: UA won't start the mighty 772 ORD-MXP flight due to their big financial problems (in the press release they announce to CLOSE the Milan offices, so I think it's unlikely they'll fly that route), and AZ is downgrading from Md11 to B763 the route. Since DTW is very near to ORD why don't they start again the route (they stopped it after KLM-AZ breakdown)? Moreover now that FIAT Auto it's going to be sold to General Motors... that would make sense IMHO.

Rgds

DaV
Two monologues do not make a dialogue
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:03 am

DTW-MXP could happen on NW and the route might be successful....though DL will have the advantage because of the AZ codeshare. If NW joins SkyTeam, then a DTW-MXP would become very likely.

I don't think NW could fly LAX/SFO-MXP. NW's presence in these markets is relatively small and once again without the AZ codeshare...these routes would fail. I expect that AZ will return to LAX and SFO in the future as things improve. In theory, DL could probably fly LAX-MXP, but I know they won't.
 
ouboy79
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:04 am

UAL is currently parking 744s as they come up for D checks. It is unknown if they will ever return to the fleet.
 
WiLdmanVzla
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:16 am

UA stopping their daily flight to CCS?
that´s great news for AA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... (4 times daily with AA)... I really hope UA won't return back to CCS, their in-flight service is getting worst than the AA' one.
*******
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:16 am

NW did fly DTW-MXP during the summer of 2000. It didn't last very long...from about June through September. NW highly publized the launch of DTW-MXP and DTW-FCO starting on the same date both using DC-10-30's. DTW-MXP lasted 4 months. DTW-FCO lived on but only from May-October. Rumors say next year that DTW-FCO will go year-round. Not likely for MXP to return anytime soon. However A330's are coming online late next summer, and NW is launch daily DTW-MAD DC-10 service.
 
lymanm
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RE: United To Stop Flying To 4 Cities

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:43 pm

United is trying to sell some of it's 744s. Check it out:

http://www.ualservices.com/html/aircraft_avail.html
buhh bye

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