Andreas
Topic Author
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:09 am

According to German online-news magazine Spiegel-online, a LH B744 with 388 people on board approaching Mexico City came to within 30 meters to an Airbus of Mexicana with 120 people on board. The crash was avoided because the LH pilot refused to follow the orders of Mexican inflight control and instead did what TCAS told him to do: he disengaged autopilot and pulled the aircraft up... the Airbus crossed his course about 30 meters below the B744.

Thank God...there were 500 people in both aircraft!

Andreas

link:http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,219712,00.html
sorry, it's German.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Andreas
Topic Author
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:18 am

The incident happened on October, 7th, but was not reported until today. The Mexican authorities see no necessity to start an investigation, obviously 30 meters are not close enough.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:21 am

30 meters is very close, thanks God that the planes did not collide.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
swake
Posts: 227
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 4:47 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:21 am

When did the incident take place? Whas the information confirmed? Der Spiegel seems a reliable source to me...

Could have been nasty if true... Remembers me somehow of Cedarjets post of yesterday or the day before!
 
Marcus
Posts: 1666
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:22 am

Wait...........believe me there will be an investigation........but it will be kept behind closed doors, so in order to keep reporters from asking further questions they give them the runarround.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
Andreas
Topic Author
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:25 am

According to the source, LH confirmed the incident! Sorry I don't find an English source, the one I gave you is german!
Yes, I do think Spiegel online is reliable!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
artsyman
Posts: 4516
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:20 am

I believe it is protocal for the Pilots to follow the TCAS anyways, especially since the horrors over Germany a few months ago. 30m is ridiculously close, in fact it is so close that I am surprised that the wakes didnt take one of the planes down

Jeremy
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:26 am

Wait a second, did the actual planes actually get within 30 metres of each other, or just their flightpaths? If it was "just" the flightpaths, then the incident may be *a bit* less serious than suggested...
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:33 am

Lufthansa wants an investigation to take place, they informed the BFU (German FAA) but the BFU told them that they were not informed by the Mexican authorities as it's common for this kind of incidents...

According to the Stern (German news mag), the A320 flew 30m under the plane, not just their flight paths.
 
SQ325
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:54 pm

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:36 am

30meters sounds very close and like a wonder that nothing happened!
But is there any word about the lateral distance between both Aircrafts?
i miss something in this report!
Damn press everytime cries loud after a near miss and missleading public by saying not all details!
 
Andreas
Topic Author
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:41 am

According to Spiegel Online, giving a LH spokesman as source, that the aircraft were 30 meters (approx. 100ft, or 35 yards) apart, not their flightpaths.
The LH spokesman, Michael Lamberty, said, that the pilot reacted according to LH regulations. In such a case the pilot is trained to give TCAS warning top priority. Seems like a pretty good regulation, keeping in mind there were over 500 people involved.
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
trickijedi
Posts: 3201
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:57 am

This happened on October 7???!!!  Wow!

And we're just now hearing about it???  Confused

Hmmm... I think someone's trying to hide something!  Pissed
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
chepos
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:04 am

Thank God a colllision between those two aircraft did not happen , it would have been a major catastrophe with over 500 deaths.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
rojo
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:11 am

And if you take a look at Mexico City you will see that the airport is surrounded by populated areas, so if this happened in the landing approach it will have been a major disaster both in the air and in land...

But our authorities are too lazy to do something about this issue...

Rojo
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:16 am

I Praise the LH Pilot for following his TCAS.  Smile I scorn Mexican Traffic Control for not doing their job.  Pissed What is he trying to do, Murder more people than Ted Bundy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined.

Puhdiddle
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2435
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:26 am

Thank God in Heaven near-catastrophe was averted that day! Bet we all still have nightmares about that horrendous twin 747 pileup in the Canary Islands back in 1977-beyond belief!
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:38 am

That story in a German magazine does sound very:

Gemany = hero
Mexico = Stupid

Will we see any more on this incident ??
 
blink182
Posts: 5281
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:42 am

30 meters  Wow!. Just imagine what the pax with window seats were thinking when they saw another aircraft fullsize right next to them. It's amazing that nothing happened, this qualifies for a near near near miss.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
aerosol
Posts: 497
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:59 am

Regs?
Anyone knows?
 
planenutz
Posts: 1156
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:50 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:01 pm

This little blurb was posted in the Aviation Safety Network homepage:

24 OCT 2002 A Lufthansa Boeing 747-400 reportedly missed a Mexicana Airbus A.320 by some 30m while on approach to Mexico City Airport, October 7. The Lufthansa pilot ignored contrary orders from air traffic control and followed his TCAS RA to climb. (AFX)

Not all who wander are lost....
 
david_mx
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 1999 10:44 pm

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:34 pm

Probably was because workload of the ATC Controller, how many people is on MEX working on the approach? I imagine their workload is incredibly tough since they have just two runways and one plane arriving every 30 sec's or something like that.

Thank God all went ok... as Rojo said if you have a look to MEX approach is surrounded by heavy populated areas, this would be a worse catastrophe than the Terenife one.


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And, as always, our government did nothing, not even reported it. Lazy people who do nothing but spend our money.

David.
 
Andreas
Topic Author
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

HKspotter: I Don't Know If You...

Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:35 pm

..are able to read German, but I can assure you, there was not a bit of German=hero and Mexican=stupid in it, as Spiegel Online does not belong in the yellow press basket. On the other hand SQ325 is completely right saying that it is nearly impossible to find out what really happened without knowing facts like what did ATC order the LH jet to do etc. The little report on the Aviation Safety Network homepage doesn't help either.
Maybe the whole thing would have gone unnoticed by media, if there had been no accident over Lake Constance a few months ago, with similar key words: TCAS, possible ATC error, many people in large aircraft...Well, you know how it works.
Regards and Greetings to Hongkong
Andreas
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
Alaskaairlines
Posts: 2326
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RE: HKspotter: I Don't Know If You...

Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:32 pm

WOW! Thank God everything was OK.

-Dmitry
 
ghost77
Posts: 4464
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:03 am

To ALL,

I have many friends that work in the Aviation here in Mexico, a friend of mine Pilot from the A319/320 in MXA told me two days after this happen the 9th what happened, I was really impressed but I usually don't like to said about this things... a day later I call a ATC in charge of MEX_TWR (Jorge L....s), told me about what happened about this incident and if there was an ERROR by the ATC at that moment, there's going to be a SEVERE CALL, or a punishment like downgrading this ATC to another airport with lesssss traffic... Let me tell you APP at MEX during rush hours it's incredible, and the worst thing is that there's only one person handling all those traffics this is not like the US with N, S, W, E APPs., if you once fly to MEX, bring a scanner, tune 121.85 for MEX_APP, lot's of acfts, landing in two rwys only.... really a circus!

Believe me, there's going to be an Investigation, this is something serious for MX and LH, so it's better not to 'scare' the people in Mexico... flying to Germany or Mexicana....

ghost77  Smile
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
AM744
Posts: 1439
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:48 pm

Sure, but our authorities are a joke. They are too ashamed to make public that they just don't do their work properly. What where they trying to achieve by hiding this???? They thought they could get away with it. Yeah right. Whenever something goes wrong it is hidden rather than investigated. Does the DGAC(Mexican FAA) make serious and detailed reports? Do they make recomendations or modify regulations based on the conclusions of this reports? I seriously doubt it.
 
Lufthansa404
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:21 am

RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Sun Oct 27, 2002 5:03 pm

Any update on this? No one that is with Lufthansa and knows some more?

Thanks

Jan
 
sr117
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 2:00 am

Mexican ATC Responds

Tue Oct 29, 2002 2:09 pm

Hey, I was just watching the news today (CNI for you mexican guys ; )
It seems that Mexican ATC and the SCT (the transport ministry) have done a press conference giving their side of the story. Basically, they say that if they had followed ATC orders, the MX plane and LH planes would have maintained a separation of 335 meters, but, that the LH plane by disobeying orders, did an unauthorized climb that brought it close to coliding with a mexican air force plane flying at a higher flight level.

While I know that Mexico is behind some things, I know for a fact that air security is taken very seriously at every level, so that's why this whole story seemed a bit strange to me, it's not some sort of banana republic agency where everything is kept under wraps as some people might think it is, there had to be another side to the story, while the truth is still to be seen. I am at least glad that mexican ATC has given their side to the story.

Ricardo
 
Derico
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RE: LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision

Tue Oct 29, 2002 2:44 pm

I don't know about the security or training level in Mexican aviation, or the modernity of their equipment. But sincerely, I hope that people here are as concerned about this near incident as I assume they were (even more so) in the case of the Lake Constance tragedy last summer.  Pissed

I for one haven't heard anything at all on TV or radio about action taken to rectify the monstrous mistakes that lead to that mid-air collision. I admit I have not been around here lately to read possible threads people have posted on that issue though.  Sad
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