captaingomes
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Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:46 am

http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/story.asp?id={D3B65CCF-EADA-44B4-8A03-F5B4BFB25EDE}

This is an interesting article in which Transat A.T. CEO suggests its competitors are crazy because they are apparantly adding 40% capacity this winter compared to one year ago. Air Transat will remain at the same level as last year, and suggests one or more competitors will be "crippled" by adding this much capacity.

Air Transat isn't perfect, but I give them credit for being in a good financial position, and also being conservative with their growth prospects.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:56 am

Transat said the same thing a few months ago, can't recall for sure but it was at some meeting of Canadian aircarriers...anyway I agree with what they are saying, I see the moves of some carriers, Skyservice in particular as maybe being a bit too much. Tour operators are not always 100% accurate in predicting their requirements for each season. I guess only time will tell who was right, I personaly think that transat's take on it is the safest, and most correct, but I could be wrong....and hope that I am for the sake of those still working in the industry.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:07 am

I totally agree with you Slawko (amazingly). It says a lot that after September 11th, the airline with the worst on time and customer service records in Canada, as well as suffering from a few incidents (Azores, Florida, and France) remained, and is now posting profits again.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
donder10
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:10 am

To their credit they have stuck around while others have disappeared!They seem to have taken notice of the mistake's C3000 and co made.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:29 am

Pardon my ignorance but what was the Florida incident? France was the hail damage right? I don't recall a Florida incident though.  Confused
 
flyyul
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:43 am

Florida was Royal/2T B737 from Cayo Coco to YMX.. diverted to FLL due to fire in the engine i believe..

Mark
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 8:59 am

It definately is a risky move by the tour companies, but if it does work and the business is there.....than look out! I don't think TS is in a position right now to lay it on the line to try and gain market share.....they are doing the right thing.....slow and steady wins the race you know.....I think you will see SSV chasing their tail in the end of it....

Grant
Drive it like you stole it!
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:21 pm

VonRichtofen, you are so ignorant for not knowing the Florida incident!!!!  Smile

The Florida incident was not a big deal, but it did make headlines when an L1011 was taxiing to take off, and there was smoke in the cabin. They decided to evacuate. This was at a time when the media followed every move that Air Transat made, and always put them as the top story with stupid things like "Air Transat fuel spill, airplane departs 1 hour late!!!" and BS like that.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:38 pm

If the market need is there then SSV should have no qualms about it. Bear in mind that it is the tour operator who pays for the lease of the aircraft for SSV, so therefore, if SSV only has one seat sold on a flight, the tour operator is still paying full for it.

As for Transat, they still are much larger than SSV, so therefore, they can be cautious because they are still yeilding more. And I guess they have to be cautious until the incident about the Azores really comes into full fruition and the investigative report is released.

Why should Canadian business go to My Travel or JMC? I say bring it on to Canadian carriers and if SSV is in the position to get it then why not?

I did not see anyone here disagreeing when TS announced their increase sched routes to Warsaw, Paris, Italy and Dublin.

 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:45 pm

Rootsgirl, we were waiting for you to start that discussion!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:55 pm

...plus, Air Transat has been collecting licences for scheduled services.

Now it has to be cautious on two flanks - charter and scheduled...
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:33 pm

Why should Canadian business go to My Travel or JMC? I say bring it on to Canadian carriers and if SSV is in the position to get it then why not?

Not necessarily. The Canadian tour companies should seek out the airline offering the lowest cost, not just the Canadian charter carrier offering the lowest cost. If MyTravel can serve the Canada-UK market cheaper than TS ot SSV, then that is to the advantage of the Canadian traveller. Besides, the Canada-UK market served by MyTravel is not "Canadian business"....they were also serving UK customers visiting Canada.

Similarly, if a US charter carrier was ever able to offer Canadian tour companies lower costs on Canada-LAS or Canada-Florida charters, it would be in the Canadian consumer's interest for the tour company to select the US carrier.



I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:34 pm

Hey Captaingomes (and all the others)....

Did YOU know that a Boeing 777- 200 has exactly 40% more capacity than an Airbus A330- 200... now THAT'S crazy!!!  Big thumbs up

Grégoire
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:40 pm

Oh boy Gregoire! I think that you have way too much time on your hands at this new job!!!

By the way, what are you implying???????????  Big grin
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:55 pm

Hey, I hear you guys had a date last Sat night????

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:08 pm

Nuno, meaning what??? You were waiting for someone to play the devils advocate? Good point about Transat collecting more licenses for sched Polaris. But that's o.k. according to the " experts" ha! ha!
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 2:17 pm

Too much time... yeah right...

Spent most of my time today freezing my cohones fuelling an AF 340. 53 000 litres. Maybe it was the cold and the fumes, but those AF koochies were all hot!

Neil, you heard wrong we merely had a shared cinematographic experience... uh... I know which one sounds worse now... Confused
 
lymanm
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:01 pm

"Why should Canadian business go to My Travel or JMC? I say bring it on to Canadian carriers and if SSV is in the position to get it then why not?"

Rootsgirl, there are 2 sides to this... Of course if there are unemployed, qualified Canadian flight crew out there (which there are quite a few!) it is very difficult to justify using UK-registered aircraft and crew in Canada. However, the same argument could be said with SSV and their winter ops with Canadian crews in the UK(where there are also unemployed, qualified flight crew).
buhh bye
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:29 am

The Canadian tour companies should seek out the airline offering the lowest cost, not just the Canadian charter carrier offering the lowest cost. If MyTravel can serve the Canada-UK market cheaper than TS ot SSV, then that is to the advantage of the Canadian traveller.

Unfortunately, by doing this, tour companies would be looking at only one side of the equation. That side being the supposed benefit to the Canadian traveller.

The complete picture would also include benefits to the Canadian employee and the general public. The Canadian traveller that chooses the services of a Canadian employee working for a Canadian company that, in turn, pay taxes into the Canadian system that benefits the general public...now that's a winning combination and an advantage to everyone!
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:12 am

Polaris, that is a good point, and it shows that there are qualitative, and not just quantitative factors which should weigh in the decision to use either a Canadian airline or a foreign airline. But truth be told, the tour operator will be looking at dollars and cents, and not take into account qualitative factors. There are many benefits for a Canadian tour operator, focussing on the Canadian market to use a Canadian airline, and that might not equate to direct dollars and cents savings, but in the long run, it just might weigh in their favour. That becomes a very complicated process though, to figure out the proper benefits of either option.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:14 am

The complete picture would also include benefits to the Canadian employee and the general public. The Canadian traveller that chooses the services of a Canadian employee working for a Canadian company that, in turn, pay taxes into the Canadian system that benefits the general public...now that's a winning combination and an advantage to everyone!

No, I disagree. When you buy a vacation, you want the lowest costs. If a foreign company can provide it cheaper, then that is to a Canadian's advantage. You have extra cash left over for other purchases/investments.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:23 am

In the paper today...Transat still holds the reigns as the largest charter airline in Canada, having over 40% share of the market. The rest of the market is shared with SSV/Westjet ( now doing some charters), Zoom and the other new one from out west.

Lymann, yes, there are 2 sides to the story. While SSV is using a British front end for the 757 and a Canadian back end ( temporarily until our own 2 757's arrive in the spring), My Travel uses a Canadian front end to operate the 320's that SSV sends over to the UK for the summer. Kind of six of one - half a dozen of ther other.

As far as it being cheaper for the tour operator to use My Travel/ JMC - not so. It was a fact that SSV did not have the fleet " readily available" to do it.

I guess My Travel/Sunquest are all under the North American Leisure Group umbrella, so it's kind of a weird relationship. I guess it works for them.

Though, we will have to wait and see what the future holds for My Travel - thus maybe a possibilit of affecting Sunquest/Alba - according the the paper today. But....could it be Signature to the rescue?
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:56 am

When you buy a vacation, you want the lowest costs. If a foreign company can provide it cheaper, then that is to a Canadian's advantage. You have extra cash left over for other purchases/investments

Yes, from an individual perspective, you might have a little more money in your individual pocket. However, the foreign company will re-direct 60% of the money from the sale "back home" to the country where it is headquartered. That means money leaves Canada to the benefit of citizens in other countries. (These average percentages are available through research companies.)

Purchasing through a Canadian company will keep 60% of the sale in the home country. That money routes through the system and provides greater benefits to all who work and live in that country. That money then allows you to take your vacation, keeps your neighbour employed and, in turn, maintains the society you are trying to build.

To me, that's the big picture.




 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:57 am

HAHAHA...well I know Nuno had the red tie and red vest, but Greg, you too??? HEHEHE Just kidding!!!  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:03 am

Sorry Slawko, that's a grey tie that I used. Sorry if you're that confused!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:28 am

Captaingomes: the tour operator will be looking at dollars and cents, and not take into account qualitative factors.

If I may, I'd like to take your comment one step further. What you describe is the difference between a good corporate citizen (one that takes into account its contribution to the qualitative factors) and a company that is in it for its own corporate agenda and financial gain (dollars and cents).

...but this is heading into a different, non-aviation direction now...
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:32 am

HEHE...oh ok Nuno sorry...thats right I forgot the grey tie...  Smile
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:09 am

Yes, from an individual perspective, you might have a little more money in your individual pocket. However, the foreign company will re-direct 60% of the money from the sale "back home" to the country where it is headquartered. That means money leaves Canada to the benefit of citizens in other countries.

This is an anti-trade standpoint. It's foreign competition in any industry that keeps Canadian companies innovating and improving. If Canadian carriers knew they had a lock on Canadian tour companies....they would become fat & lazy.

Don't forget.....TS, SSV and C3 all won lucrative contracts for US tour companies for routes ex-BOS, PHL, etc in the past few years.....the same opportunity should be available in return......so all consumers can benefit.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:12 am

I would agree with YYZ717's stand point only if the situation was the same for Canadian operators...in other words, no problem let JMC or My Travel fly here, but then let Transat go over there and compete for that market. It cant work just one way....
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:10 pm

no problem let JMC or My Travel fly here, but then let Transat go over there and compete for that market. It cant work just one way....

It's not working one way. The Canada-UK market is not a Canadian market...it's a joint Canadian/British market which carriers from both countries are free to pursue.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Cpt Underpants
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 12:41 pm

Folks, you're missing the bigger picture here. Mr. Eustache and his crew are whining to the media because these other 3 tour operators are going after Transat's business in a big way. They see AT as being a weak competitor, and now is the time to pounce. Alot of the growth they have introduced is designed to cut into AT's bread and butter. Time will tell who survives, but if I were in their shoes, facing the scalding they will take in the media when the Lajes report comes out, I'd be whining a little too!
 
BOEING747-700
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:24 pm

I WAS ON THAT PLANE THAT HAD THE ACCIDENT IN FLORIDA THAT DAY IT HAPPEND TOO. I GOT OFF IN ORLANDO AND IT WAS TAKING PEOPLE BACK TO TORONTO. I WAS ON THAT PLANE LIKE AN HOUR BEFORE THAT HAPPEND. WHAT ARE THE ODDS. I SAVED MY FLIGHT STUB FROM THAT DAY AUG 18th 01
 
captaingomes
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:54 pm

Captain Underpants, I agree to a point with what you have to say. But like has been said before, Transat has large reserves to play with, and the same cannot be said about SkyService from what I understand. If in fact the other tour operators are adding 40% capacity to a stale market, then somebody will get hurt in the end. Transat is playing it safe while the others are taking risks, in an economy which does not lend itself to risky behaviour at this point. Somebody will get hurt for sure, but let's hope that we don't lose any more players.

Neil, all my comments above regarding qualitative factors, etc, are not in any way to underscore the fact that there are bilateral agreements with other nations, and that they in fact benefit everybody. I do believe in Canadian carriers being able to offer flights for tour operators overseas, and vice versa, as the needs fluctuate worldwide. I also agree that the consumer will benefit from the lowest price for a particular service. But a Canadian tour operator should look a bit beyond the simple bottom line when choosing an airline to do its services, as many other factors would weigh in their benefit. This benefit would of course disappear with a large enough discrepency in price from a Canadian airline and a foreign airline.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:56 pm

My point is not anti-trade at all.

My point is that money used to purchase Canadian product is more likely to circulate in Canada and as such is more likely to benefit Canadians - that is...the buyer, the employee, the general public. That's not anti-trade; that's a fact.

Use a foreign company and your money is more likely going to support the country of origin of your supplier...their employees, their general public. That's a fact, too.

It doesn't matter whether competition is foreign or not. Competition can come from domestic sectors, too. Either way, the money goes to the home base of the carrier providing the service. As such, if it's a foreign carrier, that money paid benefits Canadians very little. Most of the money leaves the country. The individual might have saved some money but how did that transaction affect the big picture?

Cpt Underpants has a valid point. I think this carrier is starting to sound a little concerned. It is going to spread itself very thin - over the charter market and the scheduled market. Two worlds - two flanks.

 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:01 pm

My point is that money used to purchase Canadian product is more likely to circulate in Canada and as such is more likely to benefit Canadians - that is...the buyer, the employee, the general public. That's not anti-trade;

This is a classic anti-trade position! The airline industry is fast becoming pan-national! Canadians benefit overall if Canadian carriers can bid on US charters and US airlines can bid on Canadian charters!

If you restrict competition, you only end up with a smaller inefficient domestic industry.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:26 pm

No, my point is not anti-trade. It is a fact. At no point did I say anything about restricting competition. I'm just stating the obvious. My point applies equally to any country and any company headquartered in that country. You can allow all kinds of competition and open all your borders...makes no difference. Money will flow to that company's home base benefitting their local population.

If Canadian carriers bid on US charters, the money would flow to Canada. The same situation would apply there. Money would flow out of the US. That's the truth; that's the reality.

As for industries becoming pan-national. Well, that's what they would like to have us believe. In actual fact, unless a company is based out in the open ocean, they have to be headquartered somewhere. The money will flow to the country where they are headquartered.



 
Dash8King
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:26 pm

I forget where Westjet is doing charters this year can anyone help me?
 
rootsgirl
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 2:51 pm

Yes, lets' just see. I'm placing my vote that SSV will suffice just fine. Why is Transat complaing so much? They still have the market dominance in charter. And why is it only Transat that should be permitted to go across the pond and compete? Let all the Canadian charters, not just Transat.

Westjet is flying charters into PVR for sure.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:03 pm

WJ is also doing a Varadero series this winter, not sure whether from YYZ or YHM.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:01 pm

I was just using transat as an example, didnt mean to offend you rootsgirl  Smile

My point is actually in support of YYZ717's view, if Canadian operators where permitted to fly for foreign tour operators then, in my opinion we would have the advantage over many others. I dont agree completely with Polaris, I think that if foreign carriers flew from Canada on sunquest or conquest charters yes a portion of money would flow out of the country, but a large chunk would also stay here...When a canadian citizen buys a package from lets say conquest, then part of that money is used to support that business, if they bring in a foreign carrier, then that carrier has to pay to fly into Canada Navcanada, AIF, Landing fees etc, they need to supply some sort of ground support staff, both on the ramp and in ther terminal, be that contract or hiring their own, and that means more canadian jobs..Granted it would probably mean some Pilot/FA jobs that may have gone to a Canadian operator...but if our companies are doing the same thing in other countries then those few pilots/FA's would not have jobs over there...
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
Gate Keeper
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:15 am

Rootsgirl you said "As far as it being cheaper for the tour operator to use My Travel/ JMC - not so. It was a fact that SSV did not have the fleet " readily available" to do it." Are you referring to the upcoming winter program?
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:00 am

I think that if foreign carriers flew from Canada on sunquest or conquest charters yes a portion of money would flow out of the country, but a large chunk would also stay here

That's exactly what I said so how can you disagree with me? As mentioned above, using a foreign company, 60% of the money flows to their home country and 40% remains here.

However, using a domestic service, the numbers are reversed. 60% stays here and 40% leaves the country.
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 3:54 am

Where I disagree with you is that even the money that goes out generates money in canada, through more service, better prices for Canadian's, and the fees etc that are earned from their operation. If a foreign operator can offer a cheaper service then that opens the market up to people who would not have been able to afford it before, that in turn generates more traffic, and brings in more revenues for the tour operators.

What i gathered from your posts was that you think if foreign carriers are permitted to operate here then it will have a negative effect on the country, and I dont think that it would, so long as our carriers have the same deal over there..
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
cmm340
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 8:19 am

I could be mistaken however
SSV did not have sufficient fleet required for the 2002 summer transatlantic program, and therefore the 'lift' was provided by jmc and Mytravel.
One A330, and non-etops A319's were not sufficient for the UK travel program.
SSV will get any a/c or number of a/c that the tour operator needs to fullfil the projected capacity. And to add to Rootsgirl, the tour operator owns all the seats in all our a/c, therefore no substantial loss for SSV if the seats are not sold.
Most flights are at least 75% or more full, domestically and otherwise by the way.
Although the travelling public is slowly growing to the pre-sept11 numbers, there is still a huge void not being filled since C3 was grounded.
IMHO, there is room for both AT and SSV, there always was for C3 and AT.
I would be more concerned for the smaller new start-ups.
As far as foreign ownership or operations by foreign airline, SSV is not the only airline to 'share' its a/c and crews.
Notice the similarities in AT and Star Airlines liveries? hmmmm!
C3 did it with Air2000.
It works because we have opposite busy seasons.
Why have a/c sit on the ground when you can send them to your UK-counterpart for usage during slow seasons?
I don't claim to be a pro at this, but isn't it just common-sense?

cmm340
 
slawko
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 9:02 am

Transat AT own Star airlines and Air Transat outright, thats not the same as SSV being contracted by UK carriers or V/V.

"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
polaris
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RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:02 pm

Where I disagree with you is that even the money that goes out generates money in canada, through more service, better prices for Canadian's, and the fees etc that are earned from their operation. If a foreign operator can offer a cheaper service then that opens the market up to people who would not have been able to afford it before, that in turn generates more traffic, and brings in more revenues for the tour operators

...but you are not disagreeing with me. All that you mention falls into the 40% that remains in the country. Yes, some benefits do flow here...however, 60% leaves.

What i gathered from your posts was that you think if foreign carriers are permitted to operate here then it will have a negative effect on the country, and I dont think that it would, so long as our carriers have the same deal over there.

...and there is your qualifier...so long as our carriers have the same deal over there. If that were the case then the exported 60% (by foreign carriers) is returned to us by our carriers if they have equal access to a foreign market. That equality does not always exist.

 
cmm340
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2001 12:02 pm

RE: Air Transat Cautious, Competitors Add 40% Capacity

Fri Nov 01, 2002 2:14 pm

Contracted? didn't think I had said that.
SSV is independently owned but has contracts, yes, with NALG, Conquest, Signature and Titan Tours, to name a few, we even do lift for AT Holidays.
Agreements perhaps, but because NALG (North American Leisure Group) is associated with not only with SSV but MyTravel and Premiair, a/c swaps are very frequent and based on seasonal loads to suit the tour operator. Noticed I'm sure the similarities between all three airline liveries?
SSV being charter has survived because of this, and contrary to previous threads doing very well in this 'niche', like all airlines who hopefully find their niche that they're good at, not to mention SSV's success at FBO operations and Air Ambulance operations.
I believe it is in the best interest for SSV to remain charter which they will for the time being, and allow the tour operator to dictate(unfortunately as it is)where, when, how frequently and what a/c go there!
Perhaps, now that SSV is establishing a name for themselves with the travelling public not only will the tour operator will succeed but SSV will grow comfortably as well.

cmm340